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Eurogamer: PS5 and Xbox Series X Spec Leak.

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Azzanation said:
HollyGamer said:

Xbox will be more powerful than PS5 for sure, but the difference will be far less then PS4 to Xbox One (38%) or PS4 Pro to Xbox One X (42%) in terms of Teraflop. PS5 to Xbox X are around 30%. Not include similar bandwidth and faster SSD speed on PS5 , it will be even difficult  to notice even for a hardcore gamer like me. Digital foundry will be very super important on next year. 

I also need to address the leak. The info spec are from Github and it's a a very old  from 2018 , probably both already changed the spec or improve , because PS5 are already confirmed to have Ray Tracing and none of the leak mentioned this. So i guess it's just test for very early devkit. So it still not a confirmation.

But if the spec  ended up like above

I can see Xbox X around 500 to 600 USD
PS5 around 400 to 500 USD
Xbox S 300 to 400 USD

Zhuge X from Era estimate that Xbox Series X spec cost around 520 USD and above. Also with having two SKU it will be difficult for Microsoft to produce and manage supply and difficult for Microsoft to lower the price. So i believe Microsoft strategy will go with Xbox S fro price and Xbox X for powerful/Expensives/Super niche.

Sony strategy will be one SKU with targeting balanced of power and price (similar with PS4/PS4 Pro)

Most Playstation gamer will be buy PS5 for sure and probably long time Xbox fans finally will returned to Xbox. I can see a good future for both, the problem is PC gamer , they will just stick to PC (because Xbox games are on PC) and casual gamer will just go to the most popular one A.K.A Playstation or stick to smart phones .

But if Microsoft good at marketing and gamepass really sell, some of them will buy Xbox S as alternative. But that also depend on what Sony might bring to new service. Sony might come to new tactic to counter Xbox game pass .

Another problem is launch title , Microsoft will be ready probably another 3 or 4 on making new ip with their new studios , while Sony are saving a lot to surprise with memorable title and ip and some new ip from Sony famous studios next year.

For me i will stick to PC, Playstation and Switch . But if Microsoft offer a good exclusives on Xbox and not releasing on PC i might consider Xbox X.

There will always be differences. Weather gamers accept it or choose to ignore it. As Games always push the boundaries of these gaming engines, we will continue to see differences. 30% extra power might not sound like much if we are talking current gen games and engines however 30% more is a huge difference when rendering games built from scratch with next gen hardware. 1/3 more power can easily lead to better frame rates and ultra quality textures compared to high or even medium PC settings.

OF course there will always difference, the problem is most people who cares on the diffrence are PC gamer . And they will 100% stick to PC especially if Xbox games are coming to PC. Casual , not so much they will probably more of balance of price/power, games, popularity and brand. 

Like I said you need to watch Digital foundry video and zoom in to see the difference of PS4 Pro and Xbox One X with performance different around 42 % , we will see more videos comparing  PS5 and and Xbox X , and will be even more difficult to notice. But casual they don't care, even if they care and understand , it will be too difficult for them to notice when playing games. What i can see is PS5 will be the standard quality and Xbox X will be slightly better . Both will be great, but Xbox X will  slightly have more graphic  features (visual effect, like slightly better texture, or shadow perhaps depend on the developer choices)  of course. 

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 31 December 2019

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They'll sell it at 600. If you're a fan of both Forza and halo, you'll get them both on Gamepass day one anyway.



Could this tweet from Playstation be a response to this new leak?



this is not news, this "leak" was released days ago and as previously mentioned it's extremely doubtful to represent the final product (on Sony's side at least), if nothing else by the lack of hardware ray tracing which was officially confirmed by Cerny.

the more recent rumors talk about a significant architecture change that risks the holiday 2020 release. also, sony have been hinting some news at ces, so we should know more soon

on the xbox side it's looking pretty good performance wise, although 56 CUs will be a very interesting proposal when it comes to yields. it's a huge gamble, if amd can't keep high yeilds, the cost will be insane. unless MS is aiming to keep it pretty much a novelty product and only mass produce the lower end sku, it seems way too risky.

we'll see...



HollyGamer said:
Azzanation said:

There will always be differences. Weather gamers accept it or choose to ignore it. As Games always push the boundaries of these gaming engines, we will continue to see differences. 30% extra power might not sound like much if we are talking current gen games and engines however 30% more is a huge difference when rendering games built from scratch with next gen hardware. 1/3 more power can easily lead to better frame rates and ultra quality textures compared to high or even medium PC settings.

OF course there will always difference, the problem is most people who cares on the diffrence are PC gamer . And they will 100% stick to PC especially if Xbox games are coming to PC. Casual , not so much they will probably more of balance of price/power, games, popularity and brand. 

Like I said you need to watch Digital foundry video and zoom in to see the difference of PS4 Pro and Xbox One X with performance different around 42 % , we will see more videos comparing  PS5 and and Xbox X , and will be even more difficult to notice. But casual they don't care, even if they care and understand , it will be too difficult for them to notice when playing games. What i can see is PS5 will be the standard quality and Xbox X will be slightly better . Both will be great, but Xbox X will  slightly have more graphic  features (visual effect, like slightly better texture, or shadow perhaps depend on the developer choices)  of course. 

Not all hardcore gamers are PC only. There are plenty of hardcore console gamers who want the best visuals just as much as the next PC gamer in fact I know more PC gamers who play on PCs weaker than a Pro and an X and also there is plenty of info about the average PC gamer that does not have a high end PC. Not everyone wants a PC and that's coming from a PC gamer myself. I have plenty of friends who refuse to go out and build a $1500aus PC just to play games better than a $600aus console. 

As I mentioned before, games will always push the bar every new gen and they will eventually utilise 100% of the hardware in the next machines so having a 30% advantage will be noticeable. A better argument would be would console gamers care that much? Yes and no. Many console gamers this gen made a huge fuss over 900p to 1080p. You might not care but there will be others that do.

I don't need to zoom in to see the differences in games from a Pro to an X or an X to a Ultra PC game. I can tell, weather it affects my gameplay experience it doesn't. Next gen is going to be about what you deem affordable as its going a direction of how much you want to spend for quality.



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setsunatenshi said:
this is not news, this "leak" was released days ago and as previously mentioned it's extremely doubtful to represent the final product (on Sony's side at least), if nothing else by the lack of hardware ray tracing which was officially confirmed by Cerny.

the more recent rumors talk about a significant architecture change that risks the holiday 2020 release. also, sony have been hinting some news at ces, so we should know more soon

on the xbox side it's looking pretty good performance wise, although 56 CUs will be a very interesting proposal when it comes to yields. it's a huge gamble, if amd can't keep high yeilds, the cost will be insane. unless MS is aiming to keep it pretty much a novelty product and only mass produce the lower end sku, it seems way too risky.

we'll see...

I'm curious if Sony was originally going to go with 36 CUs, but has now upped it to 40, 44, or 48.  With their higher clock, I believe that should give them 10.1 Tflops if they go with 40, and 11.1 Tflops if they go with 44, and 12 Tflops if they go with 48.  Either one would be acceptable and would also result in much better yields if MS is actually going with 56.



thismeintiel said:
setsunatenshi said:
this is not news, this "leak" was released days ago and as previously mentioned it's extremely doubtful to represent the final product (on Sony's side at least), if nothing else by the lack of hardware ray tracing which was officially confirmed by Cerny.

the more recent rumors talk about a significant architecture change that risks the holiday 2020 release. also, sony have been hinting some news at ces, so we should know more soon

on the xbox side it's looking pretty good performance wise, although 56 CUs will be a very interesting proposal when it comes to yields. it's a huge gamble, if amd can't keep high yeilds, the cost will be insane. unless MS is aiming to keep it pretty much a novelty product and only mass produce the lower end sku, it seems way too risky.

we'll see...

I'm curious if Sony was originally going to go with 36 CUs, but has now upped it to 40, 44, or 48.  With their higher clock, I believe that should give them 10.1 Tflops if they go with 40, and 11.1 Tflops if they go with 44, and 12 Tflops if they go with 48.  Either one would be acceptable and would also result in much better yields if MS is actually going with 56.

It's way too early to guess "flops" count right now, too much misinformation going around. The one strategy i'm really liking from xbox here is the dual sku approach though. I'm way into the idea of being able to pay a premium for premium hardware. I'm historically more partial to Sony 1st party software, so if they would copy MS's strategy in releasing a beefy version of the ps5 at launch I'd be all over that.

perhaps amd is extremely confident in their 7nm++ process to justify such high CU count, that would be excellent news for all, including pc gamers



Hmm... It looks like someone just copied the specs for the current Radeon RX 5700 graphics cards and Ryzen 3800X CPU from Wikipedia.

I don't know what "custom" means in this context, but why bother fiddling with AMD's perfectly adequate PC design?



Azzanation said:
HollyGamer said:

OF course there will always difference, the problem is most people who cares on the diffrence are PC gamer . And they will 100% stick to PC especially if Xbox games are coming to PC. Casual , not so much they will probably more of balance of price/power, games, popularity and brand. 

Like I said you need to watch Digital foundry video and zoom in to see the difference of PS4 Pro and Xbox One X with performance different around 42 % , we will see more videos comparing  PS5 and and Xbox X , and will be even more difficult to notice. But casual they don't care, even if they care and understand , it will be too difficult for them to notice when playing games. What i can see is PS5 will be the standard quality and Xbox X will be slightly better . Both will be great, but Xbox X will  slightly have more graphic  features (visual effect, like slightly better texture, or shadow perhaps depend on the developer choices)  of course. 

Not all hardcore gamers are PC only. There are plenty of hardcore console gamers who want the best visuals just as much as the next PC gamer in fact I know more PC gamers who play on PCs weaker than a Pro and an X and also there is plenty of info about the average PC gamer that does not have a high end PC. Not everyone wants a PC and that's coming from a PC gamer myself. I have plenty of friends who refuse to go out and build a $1500aus PC just to play games better than a $600aus console. 

As I mentioned before, games will always push the bar every new gen and they will eventually utilise 100% of the hardware in the next machines so having a 30% advantage will be noticeable. A better argument would be would console gamers care that much? Yes and no. Many console gamers this gen made a huge fuss over 900p to 1080p. You might not care but there will be others that do.

I don't need to zoom in to see the differences in games from a Pro to an X or an X to a Ultra PC game. I can tell, weather it affects my gameplay experience it doesn't. Next gen is going to be about what you deem affordable as its going a direction of how much you want to spend for quality.

True, not all hardcore gamer are PC only, but most of them are on PC. Because best graphic can only be achieved on powerful PC that is irrefutable fact.  And not all hardcore gamers build  1500 USD , instead they buy GPU that cost 500 USD on par with 600 USD Xbox X and just upgrade their normal  PC instead building a new one. I don't see any reason to not upgrading your PC, but a loyal Xbox fans will probably buy Xbox X instead PC or go with Xbox and  PC 

30% will not be noticeable especially when most of xbox games are made using directX api that is good at scaling on many platform (consoles, many variant of PC on the market, future hardware compatibility)  but bad at optimizing on single devices. It's the opposite with Playstation API with their GNM and GNMX which is bad for porting games, bad at future hardware compatibility but good on optimizing one single device. 

Also there are more factors then just Teraflop number. like memory bandwidth, GPU speed etc etc. Even some expert said many game developer choose small CU count but higher clock instead bigger CU count but less cloaked frequency. PS5 are rumored to have 2 Ghz with small CU that will benefit on pixel rates and geometry shaders. On top of that  both are using the same memory bandwidth speed (Flute benchmark indicate PS5 will be using 18 Gbs of GDDR6 instead on the numer on the OP) . While Xbox will be using 56 CU with 1700 Mhz speed to achieve 12 teraflop with memory at 18 Gbs as well. This means it will be even far smaller then 30% in reality. This is very different scenario then PS4 and Xbox One comparison,  where the hardware is even bottleneck on  memory bandwidth. 

I think only very small people that can only tell the difference and you is one of them , also lets be honest here without going to Digital foundry nobody able to pint point the difference , especially when Digital foundry  pause the games, zoom in and out and bring the pic close together to compare it. Nobody really care that much. Probably only hundred thousand people like you who will care to see Digital Foundry to see the difference and  buy Xbox X many will just buy new GPU. And all of the person who go to Digital foundry are niche gamer and super hardcore.

Let's look on this gen on how a powerful Xbox One X is, It still unable to  changed their sales number. Content, price, brand is the most important thing,  power also important but on certain degree. 

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 31 December 2019

HollyGamer said:
Azzanation said:

Not all hardcore gamers are PC only. There are plenty of hardcore console gamers who want the best visuals just as much as the next PC gamer in fact I know more PC gamers who play on PCs weaker than a Pro and an X and also there is plenty of info about the average PC gamer that does not have a high end PC. Not everyone wants a PC and that's coming from a PC gamer myself. I have plenty of friends who refuse to go out and build a $1500aus PC just to play games better than a $600aus console. 

As I mentioned before, games will always push the bar every new gen and they will eventually utilise 100% of the hardware in the next machines so having a 30% advantage will be noticeable. A better argument would be would console gamers care that much? Yes and no. Many console gamers this gen made a huge fuss over 900p to 1080p. You might not care but there will be others that do.

I don't need to zoom in to see the differences in games from a Pro to an X or an X to a Ultra PC game. I can tell, weather it affects my gameplay experience it doesn't. Next gen is going to be about what you deem affordable as its going a direction of how much you want to spend for quality.

True, not all hardcore gamer are PC only, but most of them are on PC. Because best graphic can only be achieved on powerful PC that is irrefutable fact.  And not all hardcore gamers build  1500 USD , instead they buy GPU that cost 500 USD on par with 600 USD Xbox X and just upgrade their normal  PC instead building a new one. I don't see any reason to not upgrading your PC, but a loyal Xbox fans will probably buy Xbox X instead PC or go with Xbox and  PC 

30% will not be noticeable especially when most of xbox games are made using directX api that is good at scaling on many platform (consoles, many variant of PC on the market, future hardware compatibility)  but bad at optimizing on single devices. It's the opposite with Playstation API with their GNM and GNMX which is bad for porting games, bad at future hardware compatibility but good on optimizing one single device. 

Also there are more factors then just Teraflop number. like memory bandwidth, GPU speed etc etc. Even some expert said many game developer choose small CU count but higher clock instead bigger CU count but less cloaked frequency. PS5 are rumored to have 2 Ghz with small CU that will benefit on pixel rates and geometry shaders. On top of that  both are using the same memory bandwidth speed (Flute benchmark indicate PS5 will be using 18 Gbs of GDDR6 instead on the numer on the OP) . While Xbox will be using 56 CU with 1700 Mhz speed to achieve 12 teraflop with memory at 18 Gbs as well. This means it will be even far smaller then 30% in reality. This is very different scenario then PS4 and Xbox One comparison,  where the hardware is even bottleneck on  memory bandwidth. 

I think only very small people that can only tell the difference and you is one of them , also lets be honest here without going to Digital foundry nobody able to pint point the difference , especially when Digital foundry  pause the games, zoom in and out and bring the pic close together to compare it. Nobody really care that much. Probably only hundred thousand people like you who will care to see Digital Foundry to see the difference and  buy Xbox X many will just buy new GPU. And all of the person who go to Digital foundry are niche gamer and super hardcore.

Let's look on this gen on how a powerful Xbox One X is, It still unable to  changed their sales number. Content, price, brand is the most important thing,  power also important but on certain degree. 

@bolded: that's absolutely not true, especially when you have ray tracing lowering the fps count so significantly. at similar graphic settings can be the equivalent of playing at 30+ fps vs 60 fps locked