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Gotta say i was almost tempted for a 299 pro but i rather wait 12 months



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Well it says 181k vs 6k for Japan last week, Switch vs PS4. Can't get much worse than that. PS4 is truly the European console. Sells so well there. Not seen many in NA.



drkohler said:
colafitte said:

One has to wonder how much profit do Sony really get with PS4 at 200$ instead of the usual price...

At $199, no current gen console is profitable on the hardware level. Like last year, Sony limits the number of units available at this price simply in order to limit the losses on hardware. The idea that "selling more units even at a loss is good because software" isn't really an argument anymore at this stage of the console cycle.

There is absolutely no way the PS4 still costs $249+ to manufacture.  In mid-2017 Sony said the primary reason for their large increase in their gaming division's operating income was due to lower manufacturing costs, with SW sales being the secondary reason.  MS has been selling the XBO for effectively $199 for most of the year, $220-$240 with a game or two.  MS knows it lost already, there's no way they are going to continue to lose money on the systems, since it doesn't make a difference.  And Sony has been doing the $199 deal for 3 years.  First year, it was the system by itself.  Second year, it was with Spider-Man.  This year, they bundled 3 games with it.  Obviously, the price to make the console has dropped.  At the very worst, they are breaking even, but I don't believe that to be the case.

The reason Sony is selling the PS4 for $299 isn't because they'll lose money if they drop the price.  It's because they can sell it for that price and it still sells well.  Just like Nintendo could drop the price of the Switch to $249 and still profit, but don't need to, yet.  Sony is trying to build up profit, because they are more than likely going to be heavily subsidizing the price of the PS5.



thismeintiel said:
drkohler said:

At $199, no current gen console is profitable on the hardware level. Like last year, Sony limits the number of units available at this price simply in order to limit the losses on hardware. The idea that "selling more units even at a loss is good because software" isn't really an argument anymore at this stage of the console cycle.

There is absolutely no way the PS4 still costs $249+ to manufacture.  In mid-2017 Sony said the primary reason for their large increase in

This is NOT what Sony said in their fiscal reports, unless you selectively quote things out of their reports. In fact, the list price of the PS4 INCREASED sometimes in 2017 (at least in Europe) due to higher costs (the ram deal probably had to be renewed). Also, contrary to what you think, manufacturing costs generally INCREASED year over year the past decade. That is simply a fact of higher labor costs in China (go figure why the Chinese actually moved manufacturing into third world cuntries like Vietnam and Bangla Desh, for example) and lower product quantities ordered.

There is no question that Microsoft loses shittons of money on hardware (the $99 XBox1 SAD is a particularly glaring example). Contrary to what you think, Microsoft had to play the price card to stay at least somewhat relevant (outside of NA). For the past years, XBox consoles have at all times sold considerably below the prices of the PS4 in Europe. Often $100 below the price of the PS4. And $100 on a $300 product is way, way, way, way, way, way below the manufacturer's margin of a console. That is a simple fact of mass manufacturing.

And lastly, I can only repeat what I already said: At $199, no current gen console is profitable on the hardware level.



Alistair said:

Well it says 181k vs 6k for Japan last week, Switch vs PS4. Can't get much worse than that. PS4 is truly the European console. Sells so well there. Not seen many in NA.

It’s a 6-year-old device and sits over 100m. It also sold an additional 100k, at least, in NA last week.

Always better to look at the whole picture.



                                                                                                             

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VideoGameAccountant said:
RolStoppable said:

Right, that's a topic that has already come up in various threads. The timing of Black Friday is different this year.

For NPD it means a worse November period and a better December period. Something to keep in mind for year over year comparisons, so no jumping the gun when November NPD results somehow get leaked. Better to wait until both November and December are in and make comparisons with both months combined.

Aside, but how useless is the NPD that they keep numbers behind their super secret paywall but you can't get figures for each month. Just this wonky time period that covers most of the month. How useful is the November information is it excludes the biggest sales holiday in the month of November. Any company around can tell you exactly how much money they made each month, each quarter, ect. 

NPD is suppose to getting information more directly if they are charging people so much. Why can't the "cut-Off" be Nov 1st to Nov 30th like everyone else (and yes, this includes banks and other companies). NPD isn't worth what they are charging.

NPD isn't getting any more direct information that usual.  They've always had a pay wall.

And the calendar that NPD uses is an industry standard reporting calendar. It's called the National Retail Federation 4-5-4 Calendar.

This is the calendar for 2018 - 2020.



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drkohler said:
thismeintiel said:

There is absolutely no way the PS4 still costs $249+ to manufacture.  In mid-2017 Sony said the primary reason for their large increase in

This is NOT what Sony said in their fiscal reports, unless you selectively quote things out of their reports. In fact, the list price of the PS4 INCREASED sometimes in 2017 (at least in Europe) due to higher costs (the ram deal probably had to be renewed). Also, contrary to what you think, manufacturing costs generally INCREASED year over year the past decade. That is simply a fact of higher labor costs in China (go figure why the Chinese actually moved manufacturing into third world cuntries like Vietnam and Bangla Desh, for example) and lower product quantities ordered.

There is no question that Microsoft loses shittons of money on hardware (the $99 XBox1 SAD is a particularly glaring example). Contrary to what you think, Microsoft had to play the price card to stay at least somewhat relevant (outside of NA). For the past years, XBox consoles have at all times sold considerably below the prices of the PS4 in Europe. Often $100 below the price of the PS4. And $100 on a $300 product is way, way, way, way, way, way below the manufacturer's margin of a console. That is a simple fact of mass manufacturing.

And lastly, I can only repeat what I already said: At $199, no current gen console is profitable on the hardware level.

Nope. Here's a direct quote.

Operating income increased 46.9 billion yen year-on-year to 135.6 billion yen (1,210 million U.S. dollars). This significant increase was primarily due to PS4 hardware cost reductions and the above-mentioned increase in PS4 software sales, partially offset by the impact of the price reduction for PS4 hardware and a decrease in PlayStation®3 software sales."

You also say manufacturing costs have increased, yet where's the proof? The costs electronics continues to drop.  You can go grab a 50" 4K Smart TV for $200-$225, now, sometimes less. Something that would have cost $500+ just a few years ago.  Those companies aren't losing money on those. So yea, try again, next time.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 30 November 2019

Sub 1 million easy, in nov and dec.



gemini_d@rk said:
Sub 1 million easy, in nov and dec.

If it had this week at like ~650k units, and still had 3 other weeks at like ~120k... it could be over 1m in november.
Its too early to say it didnt hit 1m in november.

And even if it didnt, it would probably be very close, likely in the 900k+ range.



JRPGfan said:
gemini_d@rk said:
Sub 1 million easy, in nov and dec.

If it had this week at like ~650k units, and still had 3 other weeks at like ~120k... it could be over 1m in november.
Its too early to say it didnt hit 1m in november.

And even if it didnt, it would probably be very close, likely in the 900k+ range.

Even if it continues its ~25% drop, it should hit just over 1M. Something tells me this month shouldn't be quite so far down. I'd imagine Sony put out just as many units as last year, hopefully a few more, and those things were sold out in just two days. We also have no idea what he meant by several months. 3? 4? 5, maybe? 

Either way, it just shows that the demand for the PS4 at $199 is there. I wanted them to drop it this year, at least to $249, then $199 next year. But, like I've been saying, I think Sony is keeping it there because they want to offset the cost of the PS5. So, I only expect a cut to $249 next year. That will offset some of the drop in sales, while still bringing in some profit.