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New official info on PS5, launching next holiday

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Trumpstyle said:

Dude it's time to give up the whole HDD + SSD combo, it DOESN'T WORK.

Clearly never seen it in action on a PC? Granted it's very algorithmic dependent, but if you use a PC with just a mechanical drive, then again with something like a Sandisk SSD readycache drive, the difference is night and day.
Still... It's not going to give you the same experience as a pure SSD setup, but that's not the point of it.

In saying that... For lots of small random reads/writes... Nothing can beat an SSD, but for sequential reads a mechanical hard drive isn't actually that bad and if you have a proper raid setup, can beat some SSD's in sequential reads.

Plus we have next-generation mechanical drives starting to trickle into the market with more than one read head.

I think the real issue is power users with more than 10x games, I have expanded storage on all my consoles, WiiU, Xbox 360, Xbox One X, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, PC... You name it, because the included storage just wasn't sufficient for my games library. - Thus it will be interesting to see how Sony and Microsoft handle external hard drives next-gen.

Trumpstyle said:

About the storage, 1TB is enough, according to wikipedia average game sold per console for PS4 sit at 9,56, average game size for PS4 is about 50GB. 10 x 50GB = 500GB so a 500GB hard drive is perfect for PS4

10 x 100GB = 1TB so 1 TB is perfect for PS5.

100GB disks are in for next-gen, however, that can be compressed data, not actual data... There are Xbox One and Playstation 4 games that came on a 50GB Blu-Ray disk, but actually decompressed larger than that with additional downloads. (I.E. >100GB)

DonFerrari said:

Yep, I certainly filled out my 3 or 4TB HDD this gen, but I have over a hundred games installed in it.

Yeah. I have >400 games on my Xbox One X and 17 Terabytes of storage isn't looking like it's enough for the long haul.
Even my Xbox 360 with 2 Terabytes of storage with a few hundred games is over 60% full... And those games are much much smaller.

My notebook with a 512GB SSD only has a few games installed because space is certainly at a premium, especially with more modern titles... Plus the OS's and other software tends to take up massive chunks of that space on the consoles as well... Don't be surprised if your new shiny console has 150-200GB less for just that stuff, even before you install any games... And suddenly that 1Tb drive potentially becomes 800Gb.

Trumpstyle said:

We still have some unknows, Jason Schreier said both Microsoft/Sony was aiming for above 10,7TF but we don't know if he was talking about TF or gaming performance but sounded like TF. A leak called OBERON showed the PS5 gpu will be clocked at 2GHZ, FLUTE and GONZALO leak showed 1,8Ghz though and navi power consumption goes completely out of whack when it goes above 1,8ghz.

You clearly still haven't grasped the concept of what Teraflops actually means in relation to gaming performance... There is a relationship there.

Trumpstyle said:

PS5 might have 4GB ddr4 which will be used for SSD caching and take some burden of the OS but haven't listed it, don't know if Xbox has any DDR4 but no matter what Microsoft does they can't get above 10GB Vram available for games, this is based on the E3 Scarlet video and comments made by Drohler and Pemalite (they're hardware experts).

No one knows if the Playstation 5 or Xbox 4 will have DDR4.
We also don't know how much VRAM will be available for games... We do know that from the Scarlett reveal that the console is using 14Gbps memory... And that there is a mix of 1GB and 2GB modules.
That could mean any number of things though.... If it has 12GB it will likely be a 384bit memory bus with potentially 672GB/s of memory bandwidth... Or they may be leveraging a crossbar on a 256bit bus with a max of 448GB/s of bandwidth.

It's to early, not enough information to draw any definitive conclusions just yet, but those are some possibilities.

Sarkar said:

So does that mean NVME drives will be a requirement on PC starting next year? Or will 3rd parties continue to design their games around regular HDD so they don’t leave the vast majority of PC gamers behind?

Doesn't mean that at all. PC's tend to have more memory than consoles, so the storage subsystem tends to matter less.

I.E. A "Mid-Range" PC these days will come with 16GB of system memory and 8GB of graphics memory for 24GB in total where as the Xbox One X has just half that... That means the PC doesn't have to rely on streaming assets into memory on a per-needs basis.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
Trumpstyle said:

Dude it's time to give up the whole HDD + SSD combo, it DOESN'T WORK.

Clearly never seen it in action on a PC? Granted it's very algorithmic dependent, but if you use a PC with just a mechanical drive, then again with something like a Sandisk SSD readycache drive, the difference is night and day.
Still... It's not going to give you the same experience as a pure SSD setup, but that's not the point of it.

In saying that... For lots of small random reads/writes... Nothing can beat an SSD, but for sequential reads a mechanical hard drive isn't actually that bad and if you have a proper raid setup, can beat some SSD's in sequential reads.

Plus we have next-generation mechanical drives starting to trickle into the market with more than one read head.

I think the real issue is power users with more than 10x games, I have expanded storage on all my consoles, WiiU, Xbox 360, Xbox One X, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, PC... You name it, because the included storage just wasn't sufficient for my games library. - Thus it will be interesting to see how Sony and Microsoft handle external hard drives next-gen.

Trumpstyle said:

About the storage, 1TB is enough, according to wikipedia average game sold per console for PS4 sit at 9,56, average game size for PS4 is about 50GB. 10 x 50GB = 500GB so a 500GB hard drive is perfect for PS4

10 x 100GB = 1TB so 1 TB is perfect for PS5.

100GB disks are in for next-gen, however, that can be compressed data, not actual data... There are Xbox One and Playstation 4 games that came on a 50GB Blu-Ray disk, but actually decompressed larger than that with additional downloads. (I.E. >100GB)

DonFerrari said:

Yep, I certainly filled out my 3 or 4TB HDD this gen, but I have over a hundred games installed in it.

Yeah. I have >400 games on my Xbox One X and 17 Terabytes of storage isn't looking like it's enough for the long haul.
Even my Xbox 360 with 2 Terabytes of storage with a few hundred games is over 60% full... And those games are much much smaller.

My notebook with a 512GB SSD only has a few games installed because space is certainly at a premium, especially with more modern titles... Plus the OS's and other software tends to take up massive chunks of that space on the consoles as well... Don't be surprised if your new shiny console has 150-200GB less for just that stuff, even before you install any games... And suddenly that 1Tb drive potentially becomes 800Gb.

Trumpstyle said:

We still have some unknows, Jason Schreier said both Microsoft/Sony was aiming for above 10,7TF but we don't know if he was talking about TF or gaming performance but sounded like TF. A leak called OBERON showed the PS5 gpu will be clocked at 2GHZ, FLUTE and GONZALO leak showed 1,8Ghz though and navi power consumption goes completely out of whack when it goes above 1,8ghz.

You clearly still haven't grasped the concept of what Teraflops actually means in relation to gaming performance... There is a relationship there.

Trumpstyle said:

PS5 might have 4GB ddr4 which will be used for SSD caching and take some burden of the OS but haven't listed it, don't know if Xbox has any DDR4 but no matter what Microsoft does they can't get above 10GB Vram available for games, this is based on the E3 Scarlet video and comments made by Drohler and Pemalite (they're hardware experts).

No one knows if the Playstation 5 or Xbox 4 will have DDR4.
We also don't know how much VRAM will be available for games... We do know that from the Scarlett reveal that the console is using 14Gbps memory... And that there is a mix of 1GB and 2GB modules.
That could mean any number of things though.... If it has 12GB it will likely be a 384bit memory bus with potentially 672GB/s of memory bandwidth... Or they may be leveraging a crossbar on a 256bit bus with a max of 448GB/s of bandwidth.

It's to early, not enough information to draw any definitive conclusions just yet, but those are some possibilities.

Sarkar said:

So does that mean NVME drives will be a requirement on PC starting next year? Or will 3rd parties continue to design their games around regular HDD so they don’t leave the vast majority of PC gamers behind?

Doesn't mean that at all. PC's tend to have more memory than consoles, so the storage subsystem tends to matter less.

I.E. A "Mid-Range" PC these days will come with 16GB of system memory and 8GB of graphics memory for 24GB in total where as the Xbox One X has just half that... That means the PC doesn't have to rely on streaming assets into memory on a per-needs basis.

I don’t think the amount of RAM is relevant here, my PC at most ever uses like 25% of what I have because the games are designed around the specs that PS4/XB1 have. 



DonFerrari said:
EricHiggin said:

I didn't take it that way to begin with. Partial installs do make you wonder about how much space there will be available. 500GB does seem like cutting it more than just close, but 1000GB seems a lot like the PS4 500GB launch in terms of file sizes, and that wasn't exactly generous. Next gen game files will be more efficient due to much less duplication of data, but you're still likely going to end up with 75GB-100GB+ files for AAA next gen titles.

You've got a point, but who's really going to go to that trouble? I never thought about it until now, and I'd bet the overwhelming majority wouldn't have either. The fact it's mentioned along with the SSD, makes it seem less like a worthy new feature, which it would be, but at least somewhat of a necessity due to what may be seen as a lack of high speed storage. Which may or may not be seen as a problem when gamers actually get their hands on it. We'll see.

Nope, but they could offer upgrades, like memory cards if we go back to the PS2 days. The network/HDD adapter was through PS as well wasn't it? As long as the price was reasonable they could probably sell a worthy amount, but reasonable pricing for accessories or add ons isn't really typical in gaming. Unless they figure you can just wait for the mid gen upgrade with a much larger SSD, or maybe they will drop an SSD upgraded console every other year?

It could be that the console will have the SSD soldered right to the mobo, and there will be no internal space for an HDD. That way they wouldn't be lying by saying their focused on SSD for next gen. It doesn't mean that you wouldn't be able to plug in an external HDD, so you don't have to delete everything to make new space.

For someone like myself, even a 1000GB SSD, with no other storage back up would suck big time. My 5.0mbps net takes forever sometimes to just download sizable game updates, so even if the optical drive is much faster in terms of transfer speeds, since I would likely have to update again, it could take a long time before I'm gaming. Having an external HDD to hold sections or entire games, plus the updates or DLC, makes a ton of sense to me. A 15 to 20 minute transfer from HDD to SSD would be remarkably faster then waiting hours or until the next day to play something, that I already waited for prior.

I mentioned quite a while ago in another thread, if the PS app could allow you to swap games while away from home, you could have the console transfer game data before you get back so it's ready to go when you arrive.

Don't remember a single PS4 game that the single player you need to wait download of update to start playing.

I'm not sure if there are any either, specifically single player offline. While I haven't played Destiny in the longest time, I'm pretty sure you have to download updates even if you were only going to be playing solo, and it's not the only game like that.

Some games have been pretty broken though at their launch, so is playing a broken game 4 years after launch acceptable, if you have to wait hours or more, to re download the early patches to fix the issues? Issues that were fixed after months of updates initially, that you now have to deal with again because you had to delete everything to make space on the SSD?

An external HDD just to hold the data, so it can be transferred to the SSD quickly enough if you decide to play that game again, makes the most sense to me. If your net is fast or unlimited then I can see why an external HDD might seem useless. For those that don't want to pay for massive HDD space, they could just save the downloaded game data to an external and have it transfer to the SSD at the same time that the optical disc is transferring to the SSD. You might have to wait longer to play that way, and would have to be around to put the game disc in, but it would save you cost on the external storage. I myself would just get a reasonable size external and put all past game data on there so I could use the app when I'm away from home and transfer the game data from the external HDD to the internal SSD to save time.



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Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

Sarkar said:

I don’t think the amount of RAM is relevant here, my PC at most ever uses like 25% of what I have because the games are designed around the specs that PS4/XB1 have. 

It is absolutely, most certainly relevant. - Having an understanding of how the PC's memory hierarchy works and how it is utilized will tell you that... And even if a game is not using all of your memory, your PC will still use that free Ram.

There is a reason why PC games are exceeding 10GB+ of system memory and 6GB+ GPU memory used (16GB+ total) when the Xbox One and Playstation 4 only have 5-6GB in total just for games.

I certainly get more than 25% utilization out of my 32GB of RAM and I often get 80-90% utilization easily out of 16GB on my other system.

Shit, even if I had 256GB of Ram I would be able to use more than 50% of it with ease... And I could make the SSD's in the unreleased next-gen consoles seem painfully slow by comparison because of it.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

BraLoD said:
DonFerrari said:

I hope Sony don't ever decide to invert the stick and d-pad to look like Xbox.

They won't, symmetry is love.

I'm so used to DS layout that for me it's perfect during the gen time.

Sure I tried to go back to DS3 and it was small and uncomfortable, but during PS3 time I had no issues with it. So if DS5 improves any anatomic I'll be glad everything else can be the same and wouldn't bother me. Perhaps adopt some of the ideas of back button so you can use on some games that becomes troublesome to press more than two buttons on one side of the controller.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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EricHiggin said:
DonFerrari said:

Don't remember a single PS4 game that the single player you need to wait download of update to start playing.

I'm not sure if there are any either, specifically single player offline. While I haven't played Destiny in the longest time, I'm pretty sure you have to download updates even if you were only going to be playing solo, and it's not the only game like that.

Some games have been pretty broken though at their launch, so is playing a broken game 4 years after launch acceptable, if you have to wait hours or more, to re download the early patches to fix the issues? Issues that were fixed after months of updates initially, that you now have to deal with again because you had to delete everything to make space on the SSD?

An external HDD just to hold the data, so it can be transferred to the SSD quickly enough if you decide to play that game again, makes the most sense to me. If your net is fast or unlimited then I can see why an external HDD might seem useless. For those that don't want to pay for massive HDD space, they could just save the downloaded game data to an external and have it transfer to the SSD at the same time that the optical disc is transferring to the SSD. You might have to wait longer to play that way, and would have to be around to put the game disc in, but it would save you cost on the external storage. I myself would just get a reasonable size external and put all past game data on there so I could use the app when I'm away from home and transfer the game data from the external HDD to the internal SSD to save time.

Well Destiny is a game designed to be played online so sure it'll need to be online and thus need updates.

Also I don't remember buying games that are broken at launch. All games I can remember playing were pretty possible without updating anything when putting the disc.

Sony and MS probably will allow you to use external HDD or SD to keep up your games and transfer to the SSD internally. But from all we are hearing you won't be able to start your game from the external HDD or even SD because the game is designed to be run on the NVMe. So you win on not needing to redownload the data, but would still have to pass through the small nuisance of transfering data and losing some time (nothing of real problem if you plan your gaming time and have the transfer of the next game you want to play happen while you are playing something at that moment).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Sarkar said:
Trumpstyle said:

You missed this "like the PS5, it will ditch the spinning hard drive for a solid-state drive."

The discussion about mechanical hard drive + ssd vs only ssd is over, it will be 1TB SSD.

Edit: Or to be more accurate 1TB NVMe drive probably 4+ GB/s speed.

So does that mean NVME drives will be a requirement on PC starting next year? Or will 3rd parties continue to design their games around regular HDD so they don’t leave the vast majority of PC gamers behind?

It will depend on what games you will be playing. Yes you will be forced to get an SSD, probably not in 1 year though. And no amount of Video ram or ddr will save you. I recommend Corsair MP510.

Pemalite said:
Trumpstyle said:

Dude it's time to give up the whole HDD + SSD combo, it DOESN'T WORK.

Clearly never seen it in action on a PC? Granted it's very algorithmic dependent, but if you use a PC with just a mechanical drive, then again with something like a Sandisk SSD readycache drive, the difference is night and day.
Still... It's not going to give you the same experience as a pure SSD setup, but that's not the point of it.

In saying that... For lots of small random reads/writes... Nothing can beat an SSD, but for sequential reads a mechanical hard drive isn't actually that bad and if you have a proper raid setup, can beat some SSD's in sequential reads.

Plus we have next-generation mechanical drives starting to trickle into the market with more than one read head.

Trumpstyle said:

We still have some unknows, Jason Schreier said both Microsoft/Sony was aiming for above 10,7TF but we don't know if he was talking about TF or gaming performance but sounded like TF. A leak called OBERON showed the PS5 gpu will be clocked at 2GHZ, FLUTE and GONZALO leak showed 1,8Ghz though and navi power consumption goes completely out of whack when it goes above 1,8ghz.

You clearly still haven't grasped the concept of what Teraflops actually means in relation to gaming performance... There is a relationship there.

Trumpstyle said:

PS5 might have 4GB ddr4 which will be used for SSD caching and take some burden of the OS but haven't listed it, don't know if Xbox has any DDR4 but no matter what Microsoft does they can't get above 10GB Vram available for games, this is based on the E3 Scarlet video and comments made by Drohler and Pemalite (they're hardware experts).

No one knows if the Playstation 5 or Xbox 4 will have DDR4.
We also don't know how much VRAM will be available for games... We do know that from the Scarlett reveal that the console is using 14Gbps memory... And that there is a mix of 1GB and 2GB modules.
That could mean any number of things though.... If it has 12GB it will likely be a 384bit memory bus with potentially 672GB/s of memory bandwidth... Or they may be leveraging a crossbar on a 256bit bus with a max of 448GB/s of bandwidth.

Ofc I have seen HDD + SSD on PC, it can be used to reduce loading times, Mark Cerny was talking about new gameplay experiences that is not possible on current hardware in that April wired article. You can ofc do the Drohler and Vivster solution but it's just bunch of silly talk.

Jason Schreier was talking about Google stadia and that MS/Sony aims to beat it, it has a vega 56 (10,7TF), that's what I meant, we don't know if he was talking about gaming performance or the actual number as you only need 7TF navi gpu to beat that gaming performance. But yes there is Vega TF, Navi TF, PC Navi TF and Console Navi TF.

Based on the E3 video there's only 2 possible memory conf for MS, 12-14GB Vram 320-bit bus(10GB for games at 560 GB/s memory bandwidth and 2-4GB Vram for OS slow speed) or 18GB Vram 256-bit bus(16GB Vram for games at 448 GB/s memory speed and 2GB for OS slow speed). Based on the insider we got they going for the first one. The E3 video wasn't really aimed at me but for you, drohler and Vivster to figure it out, I just got a bit lucky catching yours and Drohler comments hehe :), then I checked others gpu that have done the same thing.

If you or Drohler has other memory Confs I will ofc take them into my guess for next-gen but it can't be based on wishful thinking (384-bit bus??), not possible the E3 showed 8 gddr6 chips but the placement suggested 10 gddr6 chips and you could see enough of the board to rule 12 gddr6 chips out.

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 15 October 2019

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DonFerrari said:
BraLoD said:

They won't, symmetry is love.

I'm so used to DS layout that for me it's perfect during the gen time.

Sure I tried to go back to DS3 and it was small and uncomfortable, but during PS3 time I had no issues with it. So if DS5 improves any anatomic I'll be glad everything else can be the same and wouldn't bother me. Perhaps adopt some of the ideas of back button so you can use on some games that becomes troublesome to press more than two buttons on one side of the controller.

Back buttons are great, they should really go for it.

It makes doing some actions really convenient, I don't know how they aren't mainstream nowdays.

Some expensive controllers do come with them, tho.



Trumpstyle said:

Ofc I have seen HDD + SSD on PC, it can be used to reduce loading times, Mark Cerny was talking about new gameplay experiences that is not possible on current hardware in that April wired article. You can ofc do the Drohler and Vivster solution but it's just bunch of silly talk.

I think we need to see the proof in the pudding before we assume new gameplay experiences are going to be enabled thanks to just a faster storage subsystem.
Because there is plenty of times in the past that wasn't the case...

Trumpstyle said:

Jason Schreier was talking about Google stadia and that MS/Sony aims to beat it, it has a vega 56 (10,7TF), that's what I meant, we don't know if he was talking about gaming performance or the actual number as you only need 7TF navi gpu to beat that gaming performance. But yes there is Vega TF, Navi TF, PC Navi TF and Console Navi TF.

Teraflops are single precision (32bit) floating point calculations.
So it's exactly the same regardless if it is Vega, Navi, Polaris, VLIW4, VLIW 5 or whatever... It's a theoretical denominator, not a real world one.

Trumpstyle said:

Based on the E3 video there's only 2 possible memory conf for MS, 12-14GB Vram 320-bit bus(10GB for games at 560 GB/s memory bandwidth and 2-4GB Vram for OS slow speed) or 18GB Vram 256-bit bus(16GB Vram for games at 448 GB/s memory speed and 2GB for OS slow speed). Based on the insider we got they going for the first one. The E3 video wasn't really aimed at me but for you, drohler and Vivster to figure it out, I just got a bit lucky catching yours and Drohler comments hehe :), then I checked others gpu that have done the same thing.

Yeah, but we are basing those assumptions on extremely small amounts of information from a video that may not have any relevance.
It wasn't like the Scorpio reveal where we could pretty much work out the entire specs of the machine.

Just don't take it as 100% fact just yet, that's all I am saying.

Trumpstyle said:

If you or Drohler has other memory Confs I will ofc take them into my guess for next-gen but it can't be based on wishful thinking (384-bit bus??), not possible the E3 showed 8 gddr6 chips but the placement suggested 10 gddr6 chips and you could see enough of the board to rule 12 gddr6 chips out.

You can have a 384bit memory bus, it's just not going to be the optimal way to go about it.
GDDR6 also has dual independent 16bit channels, which allows for some flexibility to that end... It will be interesting to see if the memory controller is decoupled from the ROPS again like with the Xbox One X. (And Radeon 7970)

They may also have 20x GDDR6 chips in total by having a copy of the Ram chip layout duplicated on the underside of the motherboard. (Although unlikely.)
The board they showed is a very early engineering sample, so design rules will change between then and release.

Just lots of unknowns.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

DonFerrari said:
EricHiggin said:

I'm not sure if there are any either, specifically single player offline. While I haven't played Destiny in the longest time, I'm pretty sure you have to download updates even if you were only going to be playing solo, and it's not the only game like that.

Some games have been pretty broken though at their launch, so is playing a broken game 4 years after launch acceptable, if you have to wait hours or more, to re download the early patches to fix the issues? Issues that were fixed after months of updates initially, that you now have to deal with again because you had to delete everything to make space on the SSD?

An external HDD just to hold the data, so it can be transferred to the SSD quickly enough if you decide to play that game again, makes the most sense to me. If your net is fast or unlimited then I can see why an external HDD might seem useless. For those that don't want to pay for massive HDD space, they could just save the downloaded game data to an external and have it transfer to the SSD at the same time that the optical disc is transferring to the SSD. You might have to wait longer to play that way, and would have to be around to put the game disc in, but it would save you cost on the external storage. I myself would just get a reasonable size external and put all past game data on there so I could use the app when I'm away from home and transfer the game data from the external HDD to the internal SSD to save time.

Well Destiny is a game designed to be played online so sure it'll need to be online and thus need updates.

Also I don't remember buying games that are broken at launch. All games I can remember playing were pretty possible without updating anything when putting the disc.

Sony and MS probably will allow you to use external HDD or SD to keep up your games and transfer to the SSD internally. But from all we are hearing you won't be able to start your game from the external HDD or even SD because the game is designed to be run on the NVMe. So you win on not needing to redownload the data, but would still have to pass through the small nuisance of transfering data and losing some time (nothing of real problem if you plan your gaming time and have the transfer of the next game you want to play happen while you are playing something at that moment).

More and more games are going online to some degree as time goes on though, so maybe first party AAA could remain completely offline, but otherwise day one and early updates could very well be a concern.

BF3 and BF4 both were broken, but I'm pretty sure it was BF4 that was the standout. Took more than just months for the game to be somewhat acceptable. A year later when PS4 arrived, the question was is BF4 finally worth the purchase?

I think PS5 games will surely have to run off the SSD, but I wonder if PS4 games could run straight off the external HDD if you had one? Will devs bother to update PS4 games to make good enough use of the SSD to where it's worth forcing a transfer of BC games as well? If PS allows transfers, unless they can accomplish them in like 5 minutes flat, I think they would be crazy not to have it be part of the PS app so you can transfer games through the network while you're away.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.