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Shawn Layden, Head Of PlayStationís Game Studios, Departs

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VideoGameAccountant said:
shikamaru317 said:

So, we have an article now that says that there was an internal power struggle between Shawn Layden (head of Sony Worldwide Studios) and Jim Ryan (head of Sony Interactive Entertainment):

https://gamedaily.biz/article/1256/shawn-layden-departs-sony-amid-restructuring-confusion-and-potential-power-struggle

At first people thought the article was BS, but now multiple other games journalists have said that it matches with what they've been hearing from their sources. Apparently the power struggle began around the same time that Sony started requiring Japanese developers to send their games to the US for certification before they could be released in Japan, effectively negating Japan's own CERO rating organization. That was when the censoring of Japanese games by Sony began. 

It seems like there is a bit of culture shock within the company for sure. I think it was clear to most people what was going on when Sony was censoring Japanese titles after moving to progressive California. Now it seems there is a clear power struggle within the company. I think this is the same cancer that is going on within Hollywood right now which ultimately lead to Video Games over taking movies (as they never embraced the cancer). Think could spell long term pain for Sony. I'm sure by now everyone has heard "Get Woke Go Broke." While it may be overused and it's application wrongly applied at times, it has definitely had an effect in entertainment. You can see this with Starwars and Battlefield. The video game market doesn't like the Californication of entertainment. 

Console generations are resets. Success last time doesn't spell success the next time (often it's the opposite). Sony can't rely on its massive user base with PS4 to carry them with PS5. If Sony embraces some of these ideas that have hurt other games and movies, I can't see PS5 being a success. The silver lining is Sony is a Japanese company and they may not take kindly to the California branch if they under perform in their strongest segment. 

I would be curious to see any usage of the phrase "Get Woke Go Broke" that I'd agree with. Seems like something youtube reactionaries say for anything that has women or minorities in it when they deem it shouldn't. 



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DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

So, we have an article now that says that there was an internal power struggle between Shawn Layden (head of Sony Worldwide Studios) and Jim Ryan (head of Sony Interactive Entertainment):

https://gamedaily.biz/article/1256/shawn-layden-departs-sony-amid-restructuring-confusion-and-potential-power-struggle

At first people thought the article was BS, but now multiple other games journalists have said that it matches with what they've been hearing from their sources. Apparently the power struggle began around the same time that Sony started requiring Japanese developers to send their games to the US for certification before they could be released in Japan, effectively negating Japan's own CERO rating organization. That was when the censoring of Japanese games by Sony began. 

Well if he was responsible for the censoring then off he go and perhaps Sony reverses it.

I believe the insinuation is that Jim Ryan was in charge of the censoring initiative, and that Shawn Layden was fighting against it the past 2 years, among other thing. Sadly it appears that Shawn Layden lost that battle. I also hear that Shawn Layden was the one who fought for crossplay with other consoles, while Jim Ryan was against the idea, and that Jim Ryan is very pro-cloud for Sony moving forward, while Shawn likes traditional hardware more. 



shikamaru317 said:
DonFerrari said:

Well if he was responsible for the censoring then off he go and perhaps Sony reverses it.

I believe the insinuation is that Jim Ryan was in charge of the censoring initiative, and that Shawn Layden was fighting against it the past 2 years, among other thing. Sadly it appears that Shawn Layden lost that battle. I also hear that Shawn Layden was the one who fought for crossplay with other consoles, while Jim Ryan was against the idea, and that Jim Ryan is very pro-cloud for Sony moving forward, while Shawn likes traditional hardware more. 

Would seem strange since from what have been said Shawn was above Jim. But if it is as you say then you can consider me pissed with how things may go in the future.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

I believe the insinuation is that Jim Ryan was in charge of the censoring initiative, and that Shawn Layden was fighting against it the past 2 years, among other thing. Sadly it appears that Shawn Layden lost that battle. I also hear that Shawn Layden was the one who fought for crossplay with other consoles, while Jim Ryan was against the idea, and that Jim Ryan is very pro-cloud for Sony moving forward, while Shawn likes traditional hardware more. 

Would seem strange since from what have been said Shawn was above Jim. But if it is as you say then you can consider me pissed with how things may go in the future.

My understanding is that Shawn Layden was head of Worldwide Studios, Sony's 1st party developers, which is a subset of Sony Interactive Entertainment, while Jim Ryan is CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment, so wouldn't that put Jim above Shawn? I know that Shawn became head of Sony Computer Entertainment of America back in 2014 after Jack Tretton stepped down, before SCE became SIE and got rid of their 3 localized divisions for America, Europe, and Japan. Then in 2016 when Sony reorganized and got rid of their localized divisions and renamed Sony Computer Entertainment to Sony Interactive Entertainment, he became head of Worldwide Studios. 



DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

I believe the insinuation is that Jim Ryan was in charge of the censoring initiative, and that Shawn Layden was fighting against it the past 2 years, among other thing. Sadly it appears that Shawn Layden lost that battle. I also hear that Shawn Layden was the one who fought for crossplay with other consoles, while Jim Ryan was against the idea, and that Jim Ryan is very pro-cloud for Sony moving forward, while Shawn likes traditional hardware more. 

Would seem strange since from what have been said Shawn was above Jim. But if it is as you say then you can consider me pissed with how things may go in the future.

So with the recent cross play news, Shawn sacrificed himself 4 the players ability to "play together", perhaps?



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Torillian said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

It seems like there is a bit of culture shock within the company for sure. I think it was clear to most people what was going on when Sony was censoring Japanese titles after moving to progressive California. Now it seems there is a clear power struggle within the company. I think this is the same cancer that is going on within Hollywood right now which ultimately lead to Video Games over taking movies (as they never embraced the cancer). Think could spell long term pain for Sony. I'm sure by now everyone has heard "Get Woke Go Broke." While it may be overused and it's application wrongly applied at times, it has definitely had an effect in entertainment. You can see this with Starwars and Battlefield. The video game market doesn't like the Californication of entertainment. 

Console generations are resets. Success last time doesn't spell success the next time (often it's the opposite). Sony can't rely on its massive user base with PS4 to carry them with PS5. If Sony embraces some of these ideas that have hurt other games and movies, I can't see PS5 being a success. The silver lining is Sony is a Japanese company and they may not take kindly to the California branch if they under perform in their strongest segment. 

I would be curious to see any usage of the phrase "Get Woke Go Broke" that I'd agree with. Seems like something youtube reactionaries say for anything that has women or minorities in it when they deem it shouldn't. 

You can disagree with it but I'm using it as it's a term everyone is familiar with. It's clear the the market rejects these types of games (again, see Battlefield). The inclusion of women and minorities often feels hamfisted and not genuine. Like it's done to make a political statement rather than being relevant to the game. In Battlefield's case, it was putting these things into a World War 2 games where fans felt they didn't belong. You may not like the term but its said because it describes a real world effect even if sometime it's over applied. 

shikamaru317 said:
DonFerrari said:

Well if he was responsible for the censoring then off he go and perhaps Sony reverses it.

I believe the insinuation is that Jim Ryan was in charge of the censoring initiative, and that Shawn Layden was fighting against it the past 2 years, among other thing. Sadly it appears that Shawn Layden lost that battle. I also hear that Shawn Layden was the one who fought for crossplay with other consoles, while Jim Ryan was against the idea, and that Jim Ryan is very pro-cloud for Sony moving forward, while Shawn likes traditional hardware more. 

I don't know exactly who was trying to do what to be honest. Maybe Shawn Layden was the hero who wanted to make sure we have big boobies in our goofy Japanese titles. I will add that (as someone else pointed out) is how little fanfare this had. It was just a tweet and he's out. Compare that to Reggie who had a who video about his time working at Nintendo and he announced it well in advance. It seems to speak to the power struggle going on in the company. 



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EricHiggin said:
DonFerrari said:

Would seem strange since from what have been said Shawn was above Jim. But if it is as you say then you can consider me pissed with how things may go in the future.

So with the recent cross play news, Shawn sacrificed himself 4 the players ability to "play together", perhaps?

More like shikamaru317 has it backwards.  If there was a power struggle, the guy who gets ousted doesn't have his policies all of a sudden put in place.

VideoGameAccountant said:
Torillian said:

I would be curious to see any usage of the phrase "Get Woke Go Broke" that I'd agree with. Seems like something youtube reactionaries say for anything that has women or minorities in it when they deem it shouldn't. 

You can disagree with it but I'm using it as it's a term everyone is familiar with. It's clear the the market rejects these types of games (again, see Battlefield). The inclusion of women and minorities often feels hamfisted and not genuine. Like it's done to make a political statement rather than being relevant to the game. In Battlefield's case, it was putting these things into a World War 2 games where fans felt they didn't belong. You may not like the term but its said because it describes a real world effect even if sometime it's over applied. 

Sometimes it is over applied.  I mean sometimes it does happen where the offender goes broke.  Like a comic store that refused to let a right-leaning customer shop there anymore, they eventually closed down because all the right-leaning customers, and those of other political beliefs who thought it was wrong, stopped going there.  And really a lot of comics are getting cancelled as the industry seems to be trying to get woke.  Of course, in most cases it's more "get woke, then underperform," especially for larger brands that decide to go down that path.  Gilette has seen sales drop thanks to their woke ads.  Battlefield V saw much lower sales than the previous game, and many of the sales they did get came thanks to a steep price cut shortly after its release.  Mass Effect Andromeda hired much of its staff based on diversity instead of skill/experience, and the game performed poorly both gameplay-wise, with many glitches and wonky animations, and sales-wise.  TLJ greatly underperformed to analysts expectations, $1.33B vs $1.8B+ and a big drop in merch sales.



EricHiggin said:
DonFerrari said:

Would seem strange since from what have been said Shawn was above Jim. But if it is as you say then you can consider me pissed with how things may go in the future.

So with the recent cross play news, Shawn sacrificed himself 4 the players ability to "play together", perhaps?

Wouldn't make much sense =] for me it seems more like Shawn was hoarding power and putting his policies in place, to the point Japan got pissed and tossed him out, now we are seeing changes, perhaps b PS5 censoring will be gone as well.

VideoGameAccountant said:
Torillian said:

I would be curious to see any usage of the phrase "Get Woke Go Broke" that I'd agree with. Seems like something youtube reactionaries say for anything that has women or minorities in it when they deem it shouldn't. 

You can disagree with it but I'm using it as it's a term everyone is familiar with. It's clear the the market rejects these types of games (again, see Battlefield). The inclusion of women and minorities often feels hamfisted and not genuine. Like it's done to make a political statement rather than being relevant to the game. In Battlefield's case, it was putting these things into a World War 2 games where fans felt they didn't belong. You may not like the term but its said because it describes a real world effect even if sometime it's over applied. 

shikamaru317 said:

I believe the insinuation is that Jim Ryan was in charge of the censoring initiative, and that Shawn Layden was fighting against it the past 2 years, among other thing. Sadly it appears that Shawn Layden lost that battle. I also hear that Shawn Layden was the one who fought for crossplay with other consoles, while Jim Ryan was against the idea, and that Jim Ryan is very pro-cloud for Sony moving forward, while Shawn likes traditional hardware more. 

I don't know exactly who was trying to do what to be honest. Maybe Shawn Layden was the hero who wanted to make sure we have big boobies in our goofy Japanese titles. I will add that (as someone else pointed out) is how little fanfare this had. It was just a tweet and he's out. Compare that to Reggie who had a who video about his time working at Nintendo and he announced it well in advance. It seems to speak to the power struggle going on in the company. 

And we have seen plenty of gender/race swap in entertainment that got not only bashed but sales lost (and when this happened the company and progressives accused the fanbase of being toxic and bigoted, because they themselves wouldn't buy the product anyway they just wanted it changed).

thismeintiel said:
EricHiggin said:

So with the recent cross play news, Shawn sacrificed himself 4 the players ability to "play together", perhaps?

More like shikamaru317 has it backwards.  If there was a power struggle, the guy who gets ousted doesn't have his policies all of a sudden put in place.

VideoGameAccountant said:

You can disagree with it but I'm using it as it's a term everyone is familiar with. It's clear the the market rejects these types of games (again, see Battlefield). The inclusion of women and minorities often feels hamfisted and not genuine. Like it's done to make a political statement rather than being relevant to the game. In Battlefield's case, it was putting these things into a World War 2 games where fans felt they didn't belong. You may not like the term but its said because it describes a real world effect even if sometime it's over applied. 

Sometimes it is over applied.  I mean sometimes it does happen where the offender goes broke.  Like a comic store that refused to let a right-leaning customer shop there anymore, they eventually closed down because all the right-leaning customers, and those of other political beliefs who thought it was wrong, stopped going there.  And really a lot of comics are getting cancelled as the industry seems to be trying to get woke.  Of course, in most cases it's more "get woke, then underperform," especially for larger brands that decide to go down that path.  Gilette has seen sales drop thanks to their woke ads.  Battlefield V saw much lower sales than the previous game, and many of the sales they did get came thanks to a steep price cut shortly after its release.  Mass Effect Andromeda hired much of its staff based on diversity instead of skill/experience, and the game performed poorly both gameplay-wise, with many glitches and wonky animations, and sales-wise.  TLJ greatly underperformed to analysts expectations, $1.33B vs $1.8B+ and a big drop in merch sales.

Yes seems like he got it backward.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

thismeintiel said:
EricHiggin said:
VideoGameAccountant said:

 Mass Effect Andromeda hired much of its staff based on diversity instead of skill/experience, and the game performed poorly both gameplay-wise, with many glitches and wonky animations, and sales-wise.

This is false. The issues of ME:A are significantly more complex than a single problem that coincidentally seems to fit a certain narrative. The game had an incredibly turbulent, backbreaking development cycle with multiple reboots etc. and we usually know the fate of such games, such as Duke Nukem Forever (which, according to your perspective, should have been an incredibly successful product), Final Fantasy XV etc.

https://kotaku.com/the-story-behind-mass-effect-andromedas-troubled-five-1795886428

OT - this has long term effects on Sony's mid and long term market strategies, from what I've seen. Jim Ryan is far more focused on the concept of closed platform and streaming being the future... in fact somewhat aligning himself with what Epic, Microsoft, Google, Disney etc. are doing nowadays.



 

 

 

 

 

thismeintiel said:

Mass Effect Andromeda hired much of its staff based on diversity instead of skill/experience, and the game performed poorly both gameplay-wise, with many glitches and wonky animations, and sales-wise. 

I challenge you to back that up with facts.

1. That BioWare hired their staff on diversity rather than skill/experience.

2. That it directly led to the problems of gameplay, performance and sales.



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