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Final Fantasy 7 Remake TGS Live Shows Presentation (new gameplay, sumon, classic ATB battle mode, Squat minigames , Aerith and Tifa combat system)

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Hiku said:
Vodacixi said:
They will have to buy God knows how many different games. Each entry is gonna be a full game, we get that. And that's great for people like you who only care about how much time they can invest into this episodic experience. But for many other people, wondering how many games they will have to buy and how many years they'll have to wait for each one to launch... for a remake of a game that launched as a single title is definetly a major concern.

How many games someone has to buy (within reason) is not a problem if you enjoy each game to the point that they're all worth the purchase.

I can understand if someone plays them and doesn't like them.
But the problem is people convincing themselves about things there are no indications of. For example you said "(although I think that those reasons are basically made up by you or the developers)"

And it's particularly surprising now, and probably the reason why @think-man said it was over exaggerated, because time and time again, Square Enix has systematically addressed each of the so called "concerns", with each presentation.

"Episodic? I bet they're gonna charge full price for a 15 hour game."
Square Enix: "This will be a full game 60h+ experience, on two Blu-Ray discs"

"Action based? I bet it's just going to be mashing with no strategy."
Square Enix: *Shows video of a single boss fight with possibly more strategic elements than the entire original game.*

"It's going to suck for us who prefer turn based."
Square Enix: We have integrated the turn based ATB system into the action based combat.

"That's not enough!"
Square Enix: Ok, here's a mode that transforms the entire combat system into nothing but turn based ATB.

"But I still suspect they are making this up to milk us for money."
Square Enix: Releases trailer that shows an incredible amount of passion and detail being poured into the game.


It's not a coincidence that the only people complaining about these things are the same people who say "This is not how I would have done it."
These ideas are derived from their own bias. And vice versa.

This is exactly what I, and many other people, wanted them to do. And because of that, coupled with the fact that they've shown me nothing but incredible passion for this game, there is little reason for me to suspect ill intent.

I understand if some people just wanted a close to 1:1 remake. But you also have to understand that wanting to expand on the the game like this does not mean someone is lying.

They're making the game into a 60h+ full game experience, on two Blu-Ray discs. What part of that sounds like they're just trying to put in enough content so that they can sell it at full price? How many other games have you played that are on on two Blu Rays? Let alone games that look THIS detailed?

That's why it's still mind boggling to hear some of these complaints.
Not wanting it to be multiple games, that's fine. I get it. But claiming that they're lying, etc, seems ridiculous at this point after all we've seen.

When people say "The original was just one game", that just makes it seem like they don't understand. 
The original had pre-rendered backgrounds, which they now have to recreate into not only real time graphics, but highly detailed impressive even for 2020 graphics at that.
In the original game they generally wouldn't have to worry about many object 'not looking detailed enough'. Hell, Cloud didn't even have a mouth. 
But now, essentially anything they design is expected to have a high standard of detail.

This was unlikely ever going to be a single game to begin with. But when you have only one chance to do a remake of what is probably the defining work of your entire life, then yes, there will be people on the team who would want to do it thoroughly. Let's see the rest of Midgar. Let's get to know Biggs, Wedge and Jesse more. And all the ideas they had 20 years ago, but couldn't implement. Or ideas they've thought of since then.

Everything they've shown so far indicates that their state of mind is the same as mine, and Maximillian Dood, and many other people.

Look, if you want to convience yourself that dividing the game into a number of parts it's the best course of action and something you'll enjoy, that's fine. I don't have any problems with people actually liking this way to proceed.

But don't try to convience someone that has made some valid points about why they don't like this situation so vehemently. Because non of what you said counters anything I said.

I never said anything about the combat, the duration, or a lack of passion from the developers. My only complaint is the episodic release of the remake. I also don't care that it's 15 hours long or 60 or 200. That's not my point. My points are:

1. It's gonna take a LOOOOONG time to get Final Fantasy VII remade in its enterity. Like... it took them 5 years to do the first part and we don't know how many are in the works. So 10 (best case) to 15 years in a worst case scenario in total is not too far fetched.

2. As such, the upcoming entries will more likely be on next gen machines. So, unless you buy a PS5 or you're playing on PC, you're probably gonna have to buy next gen hardware if you want to have the full Final Fantasy VII Remake experience. Which is, in my opinion, pretty crazy.

3. We're gonna have to pay two or more full 60 dollar games in order to have the experience that we originally had in one single release. Best case scenerio, we spend 120 dollars in FF VII Remake. Worst case... 180... or more. Who knows. To me, no matter how much content they add or how amazing it looks, it's something to be worried about.

I insist: if non of these are concerns to you, I understand. I'm not taking that away from you. I get you. The game looks insane. Visually amazing, the gameplay looks fresh, original an engaging. The musical arrangements are fabulous and it appears to have tons of content. I get it. It's gonna be a great game. And you're willing to have the game divided into multiple releases if they all are this good and all add enough lore and elements. Awesome, good for you.

But as I said before: UNDERSTAND that there are other people that are concearned by the everything I said. It's not about how good the game is to them. Is about everything else I point out. That's all I ask from all of you.



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think-man said:

Couldn't have said it better myself. At first i wasn't a fan of the episodes but after doing some research I realized that it's actually an awesome idea, i mean now we can get so much more story and lore of FFVII than what would have ever been possible if it was a single game. They can expand on characters we knew hardly anything about. Look at how much screen time Jesse gets now. Furthermore having played the game myself, I'm nothing short of hyped. 

Yeah, like Nomura said, they're not getting any younger, and if they are ever going to do this, it's now or never. And they'll probably never get to do another remake for FF7. So if they ever wanted to explore characters like Jesse further, in a proper console game, this is it.

Speaking of Jesse, and the complaint that this game is taking too long. Which is understandable, but if those people had gotten their wish and this game released years ago, it would have looked more like this:



Than this:



Or this:



Than this:



Looking back at the second reveal trailer now, the character models.... actually look pretty bad in comparison.
Which is why I always say, take your time. With a game like this, take all the time you need until you feel satisfied with the results. Because it's very important to get things right with this one. And Maximillian spoke with the developers, and got the impression that they're extremely concerned about that.

Every time I look at a video, I find some new amazing detail.
For example, after Ifrit sets this boss on fire, he jumps into the water, to cool off.



This isn't even a scripted event. 
The game looks so incredibly polished, that I feel like the developers are really putting everything they have into this.

This sequence with Tifa looks amazing as well.



There should be a Final Fantasy VII Remake thread made exclusively for those who want to whine about the multi-part aspect of the Remake, and a rule that prevents them from doing it outside of that echo chamber.

Because all the FF VII Remake threads end up being about that aspect and the people refusing to get over it.

This has been known for a while now, constantly whining about it and bringing it up everytime there’s a new FFVIIR thread is fucking annoying. 

Last edited by Hynad - on 14 September 2019

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Hynad said:

There should be a Final Fantasy VII Remake thread made exclusively for those who want to whine about the multi-part aspect of the Remake, and a rule that prevents them from doing it outside of that echo chamber.

Because all the FF VII Remake thread end up being about that aspect and the people refusing to get over it.

This has been known for a while now, constantly whining about it and bringing it up everytime there’s a new FFVIIR thread is fucking annoying. 

Yeah its getting old now, it's about time everyone gets over it. 



Look, just like Vodacixi has been saying, if you don't think these are any concern to you personally, that's absolutely fine. I like FF7 quite a bit and I think a remake of it isn't a bad idea at all. I wasn't at all impressed with the early footage, these latest trailers have been much more appealing.

However, when you keep saying that a 60-hour game is a good thing, this is a 60-hour game focusing on Midgar. That sounds incredibly dull to me, and sounds like more of the same faults FF15 (a game I thoroughly enjoyed, mind you) had. Also, as has been said in this thread, there's no telling how many parts they're going to be releasing, or how far apart. This could be something that takes 10 years to tell the original FF7 story, and that's just not very interesting to some of us.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Square-Enix have already shown us with FF15's second wave of episode DLC that they have absolutely no qualms announcing something in-depth and then going back on it entirely. What guarantee do we have that they're even going to make a part two? They're clearly playing this by ear and hoping, much like a kickstarter, that things will pay for themselves throughout development, thereby releasing it piece by piece. What if it doesn't? Having one or two episodes that cut off at the halfway point would be an incredible shame and this is a very real risk, clearly, since FF15 just went through the very same thing (albeit on a smaller scale) and got its story cut short entirely with three episodes meant to tie up the narrative never released or really talked about again.

I think the episodic approach they're taking is disastruous because it has no accountability and the only thing it promotes is extreme bloating. I don't want to spend 60 hours in Midgar because I don't think Midgar can be interesting for that long. Maybe you do, and that's fine. But disregarding every critique against this approach as "overblown hate" isn't doing you, Square-Enix or anyone any favours. These are real concerns. If they don't bother you, that's okay. But they bother a lot of us.



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10 - 15 years is fairly standard for fantasy or science fiction book series. But I don't think it will take that long. Besides, Square Enix owes us nothing. A remake wouldn't even exist in any form unless they had allowed. If there's no part 2, patience. Life will go on.

Also, @Majin-Tenshinhan, so far you posted nothing about the Remake but how terribly concerned you are about this project, how every single idea is disastrous, and how terrible the future of the project could turn out to be -- all based on no empirical evidence but your own imagination and inane extrapolation. So, uh, please excuse people around here if criticism being leveled back at criticism bothers you so much, when much of it ressembles nothing but concern trolling.



 

 

 

 

 

Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Look, just like Vodacixi has been saying, if you don't think these are any concern to you personally, that's absolutely fine. I like FF7 quite a bit and I think a remake of it isn't a bad idea at all. I wasn't at all impressed with the early footage, these latest trailers have been much more appealing.

However, when you keep saying that a 60-hour game is a good thing, this is a 60-hour game focusing on Midgar. That sounds incredibly dull to me, and sounds like more of the same faults FF15 (a game I thoroughly enjoyed, mind you) had. Also, as has been said in this thread, there's no telling how many parts they're going to be releasing, or how far apart. This could be something that takes 10 years to tell the original FF7 story, and that's just not very interesting to some of us.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Square-Enix have already shown us with FF15's second wave of episode DLC that they have absolutely no qualms announcing something in-depth and then going back on it entirely. What guarantee do we have that they're even going to make a part two? They're clearly playing this by ear and hoping, much like a kickstarter, that things will pay for themselves throughout development, thereby releasing it piece by piece. What if it doesn't? Having one or two episodes that cut off at the halfway point would be an incredible shame and this is a very real risk, clearly, since FF15 just went through the very same thing (albeit on a smaller scale) and got its story cut short entirely with three episodes meant to tie up the narrative never released or really talked about again.

I think the episodic approach they're taking is disastruous because it has no accountability and the only thing it promotes is extreme bloating. I don't want to spend 60 hours in Midgar because I don't think Midgar can be interesting for that long. Maybe you do, and that's fine. But disregarding every critique against this approach as "overblown hate" isn't doing you, Square-Enix or anyone any favours. These are real concerns. If they don't bother you, that's okay. But they bother a lot of us.

1. Are you trying to find some reason to justify your whining about the multi part release? Do you really think there is a chance above 0% that they will just cancel any part of the Remake? Fist off, the last DLC episodes for FF15 were not announced with in depth information:

* We had no idea what episode Aranea was about.

* We had no idea what episode Noctis was going to be about

* We had no idea what episode Luna was going to be about and hers was the most mysterious.

* We had no idea what episode Ardyn was going to be about

They had a little basic concept and that was it. This isnt like Mega Man Legends 3 where we had tangible evidence that is was in development and then they cancel it. We had nothing but an announcement that they were coming. FF15, in developers words was FINISHED, and the DLC episodes were just to satisfy those that wanted more from the plot (this is why the DLC episodes are not integrated into the main story in the Royal edition)

You don't think that FF7 Remake is going to pay for itself? Do you get why people are tired of the whiners? Stupid shit like this. FF7 Remake will not only pay for itself it will be the highest selling game to ever come for Square Enix. At the very least the total series will hit 15 million, but really were looking at close 25 - 30mill possibly more. Its you fearmongering ...yourself. Anything to justify your dislike for it being a multi part release.

The rest of that is you just confining your mind to only what the original offered. The entire Midgar location is being done. We are going to see sectors and other parts of Midgar not in the original giving room to create fresh stories, activities, fights, sidequest ext to keep are extended stay at Midgar freash.



Vodacixi said:

Look, if you want to convience yourself that dividing the game into a number of parts it's the best course of action and something you'll enjoy, that's fine. I don't have any problems with people actually liking this way to proceed.

But don't try to convience someone that has made some valid points about why they don't like this situation so vehemently. Because non of what you said counters anything I said.

You made no points about "those reasons being made up by the developers". That's what I said I had an issue with. Not with the idea that this isn't how you would have preferred the game to turn out. I said that's fine and understandable. But the suspicions of foul play have always been baseless to begin with. And the fact that they persist even now when they demonstrate this type of polish going into the game, is one thing I feel is not understandable.

Though I feel that what I said about remaking FF7 with this type of graphical fidelity definitely counters the idea that this game should be plausible on one game just because the original pre-rendered world was. Some games can be remade 1:1 with a reasonable budget for a single game. But for a game like FF7, with such a large scope, that's quite a tall order if they want it to even look anything like the original reveal trailer.

Vodacixi said:
I never said anything about the combat, the duration, or a lack of passion from the developers.

I know. But I mentioned them because they seem to have something in common with your complaint.
That no matter how many times Square address people's concerns, or how many amazing things they show, the negative outlook doesn't stop. You'd think they would start earning some trust points after a while.

1. It's gonna take a LOOOOONG time to get Final Fantasy VII remade in its enterity. Like... it took them 5 years to do the first part and we don't know how many are in the works. So 10 (best case) to 15 years in a worst case scenario in total is not too far fetched.

1.) FF7R reportedly wasn't in full production the whole time. Because of Kingdom Hearts 3. And the split from Cyberconnect2 supposedly delayed the development even further. So even if they started over from scratch on Part 2, it shouldn't take 5 years. And they most likely won't start off from scratch, because now they have the engine built for the most part.

But let me ask you this serious question. Would you rather the game would have come out a few years ago, and (I'm gonna copy/paste some images from my previous post, so I apologize for that) look like this?



Rather than this?

Or this?

Rather than this?



Would you rather play a shittier version in 2017? If the answer is yes, then I have to admit I do find it hard to sympathize with why you wouldn't want the only FF7 Remake we'll ever see in our lifetime (from the original team), to be as good as possible (within reason), until they are satisfied with their results.

2. As such, the upcoming entries will more likely be on next gen machines. So, unless you buy a PS5 or you're playing on PC, you're probably gonna have to buy next gen hardware if you want to have the full Final Fantasy VII Remake experience. Which is, in my opinion, pretty crazy.

Well, I can understand the concern of having to buy new hardware to play a game. But if you're already planning on buying said hardware, then that's different. If you have a PS4, don't you plan on getting a PS5 at some point?

Personally though, I want them to make this game as good as possible (within reason), so moving to PS5 is something I would support.
Because this game means that much to me.

3. We're gonna have to pay two or more full 60 dollar games in order to have the experience that we originally had in one single release.

That's not true though. We're paying for a modernized version of the original experience. And one that is not as easy to glamour up as some other older games that had a much smaller scope. We are also paying for things that were not in the original.

And frankly, that a game that could be developed with significantly less resources 20 years ago retails for the same price as a game like FF7 Remake can be pretty unfair. People still expect to pay no more than $60 no matter what. (The publisher only gets about $20 of that $60, iirc.) And on top of that some people that demand they fit everything from the original game in it for that price as well.

I insist: if non of these are concerns to you, I understand. I'm not taking that away from you. I get you. The game looks insane. Visually amazing, the gameplay looks fresh, original an engaging. The musical arrangements are fabulous and it appears to have tons of content. I get it. It's gonna be a great game. And you're willing to have the game divided into multiple releases if they all are this good and all add enough lore and elements. Awesome, good for you.

But as I said before: UNDERSTAND that there are other people that are concearned by the everything I said. It's not about how good the game is to them. Is about everything else I point out. That's all I ask from all of you.

I did say I understand those things. It was the "I think they're lying" portion that I said I didn't understand.
Though now that you specified some things, I have some questions in order to try to understand some of the things you mentioned.

Last edited by Hiku - on 14 September 2019

Majin-Tenshinhan said:

However, when you keep saying that a 60-hour game is a good thing, this is a 60-hour game focusing on Midgar. That sounds incredibly dull to me,

I specifically said that the 60 hour/2 Blu Ray disc thing addresses the concerns that the game may be 15-20 hours long (which there has been an abundance of comments about after people heard it was going to be Episodic, quoting Telltalle Games), or that their aim is to add meaningless filler content they're not passionate about.

I did not claim that this is simply a universally 'good thing'.

As for focusing on Midgar, of all the games I've played, Midgar may be the most interesting city concept I've seen. And I say concept because the majority of it was left unexplored. But rather than where it takes place, it's what happens that was the most interesting to me. And they can have just about anything occur in it, as we see in the trailers.

I can understand not being as interested in Midgar if we already knew most of what it has to offer. But we don't. It's such a diverse place with potential for a large variety of experiences.
And acquiring Summons in Midgar instead of finding one randomly on a beach is not inherently less interesting, just because it's Midgar. The focus was on the event itself, and not necessarily where it occurred. And that was true for a lot of events in the original game, imo.
Spiderman is less interesting because it takes place in one city?

Majin-Tenshinhan said:
This could be something that takes 10 years to tell the original FF7 story, and that's just not very interesting to some of us.

It's going to tell a lot more than just the original FF7 story.
I get if people just wanted the same story with better graphics. And I understood that back in 2015 as well. But at what point are people going to accept that that's not what this game is? What is the point of complaining about this for 5 years?

We can't have a single FF7 thread without someone bringing up a game that never existed, and never will, even when the topic doesn't call for it. It's getting pretty tiring at this point. Can we make a single topic for you guys to vent all your frustration about this?
Or is this going to come up again for the 5000th time when I post a thread about Tifa's new gloves?

~Edit~
I see other people expressed the same sentiments as I was typing that.

Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Square-Enix have already shown us with FF15's second wave of episode DLC that they have absolutely no qualms announcing something in-depth and then going back on it entirely. What guarantee do we have that they're even going to make a part two?

Episode Aranea, a side/expansion story, is not the same as having a beginning, middle and end for the core game. Even if there are lose ends.

I don't believe there's any realistic scenario where they don't finish the game. In a worst case scenario I can see, FF7 sells very poorly (highly unlikely), and they decide to wrap it up in Part 2 instead of Part 3.

Last edited by Hiku - on 14 September 2019

classic mode ? with old fightsystem or elements ?! Thats fantastic !!!!



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