Instant failure of true 3D experience.
Because games would have plague of optimization problems with enormous open ended maps or levels, gameplay style wouldn't be same if Nintendo opted CD format.
What do you think would've been the outcome? | |||
N64 would've won the gen | 40 | 62.50% | |
PS1 still would've won | 24 | 37.50% | |
Total: | 64 |
Instant failure of true 3D experience.
Because games would have plague of optimization problems with enormous open ended maps or levels, gameplay style wouldn't be same if Nintendo opted CD format.
Soundwave said:
The contract was misleading and absurd, no company would agree to those terms if that's what it meant. Even Sony basically agreed and renegotiated the deal. The deal was also signed in 1988, years before any kind of gaming CD drive was even on the market let alone the SNES itself. |
No company would agree but Nintendo did? Strange thing.
Renegotiating a deal doesn't mean you agree the contract is absurd, it means you accept to renegotiate to satisfy a partner. Seems like it wasn't enough and needed a backstab right?
A deal is a deal doesn't mater if it was signed today or 10 days ago. And not sure they were developing SNES CD in 1988. So perhaps you are thinking about a different deal.
SanAndreasX said:
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duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363
Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994
Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."
The_Liquid_Laser said:
I agree with everything you are saying, but sticking with cartridges wasn't actually the dumbest part. The dumbest part is that Sony was originally their business partner. Nintendo brought Sony into the gaming space, so that Sony could develop a CD based system for them. After Sony develops the hardware, the Nintendo Playstation, Nintendo backs out and partners with Phillips instead to make the CD-i (e.g. Wand of Gamelon, etc...). Nintendo could have actually had Sony as their partner. Instead they turned Sony into their competitor. This was the ultimate self-destruct move. Nintendo wasn't anti-CD or anything. They just backed out of their original CD system, the Nintendo Playstation, because they got a better deal from Phillips instead. |
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, Sony just didn't want to waste the money the spent developing that so they decided to use it to make their own console. Come to think of it, the thread's question is almost absurd, because if Nintendo had gone with CD's, they'd likely have gone with Sony, and thus there would be no Playstation or N64, only the Nintendo Playstation.
That said, they didn't want to go with Sony because Sony actually was bullying them, wanting control of software licensing, so I don't blame Nintendo for not going with Sony, but they should have been more careful before getting into bed with Sony in the first place, and not have waited until Sony had a prototype to hammer out the details of the deal. If they'd gone with another company from the beginning (preferably not Phillips) then Sony would never have gotten interested in the gaming industry in the first place, as it started out as a pet project by one of their engineers whose progress caught the interest of Nintendo. And of course, if they had gone with Sony, it would likely be because they had a better contract worked out instead of the horrible one they got in our timeline.
OTBWY said:
You're not reading. The game itself was not the tipping point as you put it, the format was. IE: The CD format that they previously worked with Sony on. This is the sole reason their relationship started (as Sony continued to woo Square) and culminated with the breakaway when Sony released their console and Nintendo came with the N64. The reasoning has changed over many years, ergo, I don't completely trust anything coming from Sakaguchi at that. It has to do with various reasons, for example not wanting to step on certain toes. To be even more clear why I think this: |
I’ve always heard that the SGI chip in he N64 was more powerful (at 3D) than the chipin the PS1, but my info might be wrong.
You guys need to remember that the games format wasnt the only problem Nintendo had back in the day.Sure, it was probably one of the biggest, but not the only one.They had bad relations with developers(due to the cuts and restrictions that they imposed if Im not mistaken) and bad relations with retailers, even if this final point was due to the high cost of the cartriges.
Probably there is more, but you get the gist of it.Having said that, the PS1 won because of the many developers that jumped ship and went to the PS1, like Square.
My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.
https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1
Nautilus said: You guys need to remember that the games format wasnt the only problem Nintendo had back in the day.Sure, it was probably one of the biggest, but not the only one.They had bad relations with developers(due to the cuts and restrictions that they imposed if Im not mistaken) and bad relations with retailers, even if this final point was due to the high cost of the cartriges. Probably there is more, but you get the gist of it.Having said that, the PS1 won because of the many developers that jumped ship and went to the PS1, like Square. |
Even this is not entirely true. By the N64 era, Nintendo has already started to repair their relationships with companies like Namco and Capcom.
Namco had a long grudge against Nintendo, but they ironed that out and agreed to let Nintendo even make a Ridge Racer game (RR64, developed by NST for the N64). With Capcom they started to woo them back by getting RE2 ported somehow onto a massive cart and then a deal for Resident Evil 0, which got moved to the GameCube and they made a bigger deal for RE exclusivity.
Developers don't make decisions based on "like" or "dislike" this isn't junior high, this is a business. If Nintendo had CDs, they would've kept Final Fantasy most notably and dominated Japan at the very least, which makes it virtually impossible for any Japanese developer to keep their games off the system not matter how much they like another company.
SanAndreasX said:
Microsoft is bigger and more powerful than any of them, but they barely squeaked into 2nd place with the Xbox, came in 2nd with the 360 only after Kinect, and is going to finish in third place this generation to a system that came out two and a half years after the Xbox One. |
The original X Box could have sold a lot more and was forced to end production earlier then planned thanks to a bad business deal between MS and NVIDA. Also it never reached the fire sale price that the Gamecube got towards the end of its life cycle so the original X Box did more than barely squeak into second place when you consider all those factors. Plus it sold way more games per console then either the PS2, Gamecube and Dreamcast and the 360 and X1 are also beasts when it comes to selling software.
JRPGfan said: ^ whats crazy is that Nintendo hasnt changed. |
In addition to the already-mentioned boosting of Switch's RAM as per third party request, many devs have spoken at length about how developer-friendly the Switch is to make games for. It uses all standardized, well documented parts and architecture with no exotic or convoluted engineering, and natively supports popular third party engines like Unity and UE4.
Last edited by curl-6 - on 15 August 2019DonFerrari said:
I'm pretty sure you know about the policies from Nintendo on NES and SNES but a quicklink for you https://books.google.com/books?id=XiM0ntMybNwC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=the+draconian+policies+of+nintendo&source=bl&ots=1YvtCgsvLl&sig=ACfU3U1N4c0c-tOfQR9wqrK2-4L66X1m9g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4vv3H7oLkAhUoo1kKHdjPAjUQ6AEwBXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20draconian%20policies%20of%20nintendo&f=false https://nerdtrek.com/nintendos-restrictive-licensing-history/ So several of those devs were ready to jump ship. CD-ROM is a reason for it? Sure, but Sega CD had a CD, Saturn had a CD and that didn't made Nintendo lose. It was an effect of Sony involvement. We always go the way of all the success of Sony is the result of competitors doing bad, no merits to Sony. Xbox had better HW and DVD and didn't get many of the games PS2 received. Momentum per Momentum, NES came from SNES and sold much lower than the other due to Genesis (and it wasn't due to CD as well), N64 came from SNES. So the least momentum piece would be PS1 and it still won. Depending on the incentive games will release on platform with limitations, RE4 released on PS2 even though promissed not to because of the limitations as an example, and the Switch ports are another. |
PS1 was so dominant that in the year 2000, Playstation WAS video games. The Dreamcast was dead before it even arrived because of PS2 hype. Even with a lackluster library, the PS2 was flying off of shelves until the Great games began to arrive in late 2001. I tried to get a PS2 on launch day. Even had a friend who worked at Walmart. He came back empty handed. I couldn't get a PS2 until like March 2001 and even then I had to drive like 70 miles.
PSM magazine had an article back then saying that the console war was over before GameCube and Xbox sold their first console. They had stats and everything. The year's headstart pretty much sealed the deal. It didn't matter if the kiddie looking GameCube was more powerful (and didn't even play DVDs). It didn't matter if the unproven Microsoft Xbox was more powerful. PS2 had the legacy of the PS1 and enough key features and support to nullify anything the competition had to offer.
PS1 was where Xbox was at launch. It was unproven and gamers weren't open to change. PS1 had the advantage of Sega being pretty much unreliable and Nintendo 64 having multiple delays. The choice to stick with cartridges was just the nail in the coffin.
And yes, tons of other consoles used CDs but up until the 5th gen, the advantages were still being worked out. It was more or less music and cutscenes at the expense of speed and reliability. That's another reason why Nintendo stuck with carts. Discs were fragile and gamers were perceived to be mostly kids (Though I think the average gamer at the time was 30).
Gaming was ready to grow up. Disc based technology was mature enough. 3D tech was at a point where believeable worlds could be created. Saturn was still stronger in the 2D department as Sega didn't focus on 3D like the competion did (Sony actually turned down certain 2D games because they felt 3D was the future). It was just a perfect storm and PlayStation was the only real option.
*Edit* Did I even reply to the right person!? 🤷♂️
curl-6 said:
In addition to the already-mentioned boosting of Switch's RAM as per third party request, many devs have spoken at length about how developer-friendly the Switch is to make games for. It uses all standardized, well documented parts and architecture with no exotic or convoluted engineering, and natively supports popular third party engines like Unity and UE4. |
Yes its useing more common and normal designs... because they basically bought a entire package in one, from nvidia.
At the same time, its Arm, while the current gen consoles are x86.
And its like 1/4th the power, of the launch PS4.
it also requires you to make games, with a docked mode + handheld mode (twice the efforts).
How much more easy to develope for, would the switch be if it was just a traditional console? around the power of the PS4-XB1, and had a x86 cpu?
However the Switch is easier to develope for than many past nintendo consoles probably were.
PS3 was horrible to develope for.... so to be fair its just not a nintendo issue. Sony learnt from it though, and went "never again".
Perphaps Nintendo is changeing for the better too.