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Papa Phil: "Xbox has to mean quality games"

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Pemalite said:

I have 400+ games on my Xbox One X console. - Bit of a stretch to assume I have skipped out on anything.

A few solid titles here and there isn't a good thing, Microsoft needs to pick up it's game. (Pun intended.)

So far my favorite game from Microsoft this generation is probably Killer Instinct, which consequently is my favorite fighting game of the generation, but that title is 6 years old at this point... And not what I would even consider as an Xbox exclusive as it's also on PC.

400 is a big library however the whole Xbox only has Halo, Gears, and Forza saying is a poor judgement in what the console actually offers. Yes they are MS's biggest games however to excuse games like Killer Instinct and Ori just to name a couple is sort of disrespectful to the system.

Killer Instinct is a game that's been heavily supported from day one back in 2013 and only recently has stopped with 3 Expansion Packs. Its been Xboxs best revival game. Its that good of a game that there is a high chance of it becoming a future staple to the Xbox brand. Fingers crossed for its future sequel being just as good as the 1st game. Also KI being on PC makes no difference since Halo, Gears and Forza are also on PC. It should be included in the discussion when talking about Xboxs Pillar games especially this gen. KI has carried the X1 and deserves credit from day one.

Ori and the Blind Forest is MS's best new IP this gen. The indy game was that good it is getting a high budget sequel. Its a series I don't see being a 1 hit wonder. When gamers want to talk about some amazing IPs MS has created this gen, Ori is the first game that comes to mind. 

This gen, the X1s best game series have been..

Ori and the Blind Forest (2 Games)

Killer Instinct (3 Expansions)

Halo (2 Games)

Gears Of War (2 Games)

Forza Motorsport (3 Games)

Forza Horizon (3 Games)

That's a lot of support for those games in 1 generation and we should be adding another 3 IPs to the typical Halo, Gears and Forza saying. KI, Ori and Horizon have earnt there place this gen and next gen shouldn't be any different. 

Last edited by Azzanation - on 31 July 2019

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Pemalite said:
Azzanation said:

Do you both on-purpose skip out on other IPs like Ori and the Blind Forest and Killer Instinct. One being one of the best Indy games this gen while the other being one of the best fighting games this gen?

Thats 6 solid titles and thats me just thinking off the top of my head. Yes Horizon and Motorsport are two different games.

Halo Wars 2 was pretty fun so i agree there plus more studios should only add more to the list.

I have 400+ games on my Xbox One X console. - Bit of a stretch to assume I have skipped out on anything.

A few solid titles here and there isn't a good thing, Microsoft needs to pick up it's game. (Pun intended.)

So far my favorite game from Microsoft this generation is probably Killer Instinct, which consequently is my favorite fighting game of the generation, but that title is 6 years old at this point... And not what I would even consider as an Xbox exclusive as it's also on PC.

thismeintiel said:

I think someone else is playing console warz when they completely ignore the importance of that image. There's a reason a reason the PS4 just hit 100M the fastest of any console. And without a permanent cut below $300, too. While XBO won't even get close to that. It's partly because of that image even being possible.

The image itself is actually inaccurate, there are a few games that got cancelled on it and even more games that were pretty average.

However... It paints a very real picture that Sony just has more games output... It's also an issue that Nintendo had with the WiiU and turned that around by not having development split between two devices with the Switch.
It does mean that collecting games for my WiiU console was made a ton easier though... There isn't allot of quality titles in retrospect.

SvennoJ said:

It's not only that you can simply play it on PC. To me at least, it also feels like compromises have been made and the game has not been 'coded to the metal' on the console. The more scale-able a game is, the less it's optimized for one particular piece of hardware. Resources have been spread to make it run on different types of hardware, which diminishes the effect of exclusive polish.

So if XBox wants to mean best quality games again, they need to focus on one platform instead of essentially making multi plat games.

Anyway I think the master plan is very simple. Expand XBL, add more subscription based services, hardware and exclusives are secondary to services. A steady revenue is MS' goal, get rid of the cycle of investing and waiting for the second half of the gen to reap in the rewards.

Well no. Scalability doesn't compromise anything.
Game engines have always been scalable... Final Fantasy 8 scaled well to the PC, Halo: Combat Evolved scaled well to the PC, Gears of War was very scalable on PC, Turok scaled well to the PC.... List goes on. - And they all used the consoles hardware capabilities to their fullest essentially.

And the best looking games on 7th gen... Battlefield 3/4 using Frostbite looked damn impressive on the Xbox 360 and looked absolutely next-gen on PC.

The PC isn't what holds back console games, it's actually the opposite.

DonFerrari said:

I would say they have started improving on the variety, but those titles have suffered from quality.

I would like to see some single player, open world, role playing games... Microsoft has neglected that demographic for the longest time it feels like since they pretty much threw Fable in the bin.

And now that they have Obsidian, they are in a good position to do that in my opinion.

I do agree there are some type of games MS still needs to cover (Sony also left some genres uncovered this gen, last gen when they were accepting more possible failures they had a lot more variety), but they have started. SoT is a clear different game from the rest of their IPs, the studios they bought also have different genres they work on and I'll wait the output before judging.

About best looking console game on 7th gen I would still grant that title to either Killzone or TLOU.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

I believe Killer Instinct is being celebrated just because it is only on Xbox (and PC). The game is too basic and vastly better fighters have been released this generation. It benefited from being released early, nostalgia and being one of the few exclusives Xbox One has. It's an easy to pick up and fun to play fighter, like most fighters, but nothing special. 

As for Phil's statements, saying "I've heard it all before" is tempting but there have been many actions taken lately by MS to make me believe they're gearing up for a bang in terms of next-gen exclusive content.



Sounds like the usual MS PR talk.



Azzanation said:

400 is a big library however the whole Xbox only has Halo, Gears, and Forza saying is a poor judgement in what the console actually offers. Yes they are MS's biggest games however to excuse games like Killer Instinct and Ori just to name a couple is sort of disrespectful to the system.

I wasn't excusing them, even including them doesn't change my original point... That Microsoft is lacking substantial quantity of exclusive titles.
Plus they are missing some genre's in their exclusive lineup... But so is Sony and Nintendo for that matter, especially on the Turn-based and real-time strategy fronts.

Exclusives have been an Achilles heel of the Xbox from about half way through the Xbox 360 generation.

Azzanation said:

Killer Instinct is a game that's been heavily supported from day one back in 2013 and only recently has stopped with 3 Expansion Packs. Its been Xboxs best revival game. Its that good of a game that there is a high chance of it becoming a future staple to the Xbox brand. Fingers crossed for its future sequel being just as good as the 1st game. Also KI being on PC makes no difference since Halo, Gears and Forza are also on PC. It should be included in the discussion when talking about Xboxs Pillar games especially this gen. KI has carried the X1 and deserves credit from day one.

Killer Instinct is a great game, but I would prefer they did things a bit differently and drop the season stuff, it only just creates confusion for consumers when it comes to purchase time... But I digress, it's still an amazingly solid title with a ton of charm, they captured the original SNES feel perfectly, which is a hard task considering that the game wasn't done by the original developers, shit was even made by several different developers. - So props to Microsoft for managing that title well.

I feel that Killer Instinct could be bigger in the eSports arena if they handle the I.P. right.

The fact that Halo, Gears and Forza are also on PC just means they can't be regarded as true platform exclusives either... Not that I am complaining, I think it's a good thing if they end up on Steam, I prefer the PC.

Azzanation said:

400 is a big library however the whole Xbox only has Halo, Gears, and Forza saying is a poor judgement in what the console actually offers. Yes they are MS's biggest games however to excuse games like Killer Instinct and Ori just to name a couple is sort of disrespectful to the system.

Microsoft's "exclusives" (Loose term, they don't really exist anymore...) like Recore, Sunset Overdrive, Ori, Killer Instinct, Quantum Break, Cuphead and so on were great, they weren't ground breaking, they were available on other devices... Microsoft just hasn't been able to smash it out of the park like Sony has been able to do with say... Horizon or Spiderman. -They certainly haven't been able to throw out the sheer volume of exclusives either.

That doesn't mean the games are terrible, far from it... And it is criticisms like these that Microsoft takes note of and puts an effort in to improve, hence why they are building up their studio portfolio for next gen... And us, the consumer wins because of it.

Azzanation said:

This gen, the X1s best game series have been..

Ori and the Blind Forest (2 Games)

Killer Instinct (3 Expansions)

Halo (2 Games)

Gears Of War (2 Games)

Forza Motorsport (3 Games)

Forza Horizon (3 Games)

That's a lot of support for those games in 1 generation and we should be adding another 3 IPs to the typical Halo, Gears and Forza saying. KI, Ori and Horizon have earnt there place this gen and next gen shouldn't be any different. 

They are all on PC, except Halo 5, Forza Motorsport 5, 6 and Forza Horizon 2.

Those franchises (Forza, Gears and Halo) tends to be a good money spinner for Microsoft, so it makes sense they would keep pushing those franchises... And for good reason, they are solid franchises in their own right.

DonFerrari said:

About best looking console game on 7th gen I would still grant that title to either Killzone or TLOU.

Battlefield 4 is probably the best technical showpiece of the 7th gen as it was a massive multi-platform title that pushed Frostbite to the limits on 7th gen, the deferred renderer truly looked great when it debuted with Battlefield 3 with all it's effects, my jaw had to be picked up off the ground several times back then.

Killzone, The Last of Us, Uncharted, Halo 4 are great technical showpieces as well, no doubt about it, but I felt Battlefield took a larger technical leap.

LurkerJ said:

I believe Killer Instinct is being celebrated just because it is only on Xbox (and PC). The game is too basic and vastly better fighters have been released this generation. It benefited from being released early, nostalgia and being one of the few exclusives Xbox One has. It's an easy to pick up and fun to play fighter, like most fighters, but nothing special. 

Killer Instinct was "basic" on the Super Nintendo as well, it didn't really do anything novel that other fighters didn't do.

The difference is the package in it's entirety, the sound cues, the visual cues, the music, the atmosphere, the characters, the controls... The entire shebang.
The initial reviews were pretty mixed because of how bare-bones the game was on the Xbox One release, but considering those largest complaints have pretty much been rectified now...

The same goes for a game like Donkey Kong Country on the SNES... As a platformer it didn't really do anything new or novel that hadn't been done in a platformer before, but it's entire package as a whole had a ton of charm and fantastic visual and audio cues which propelled that game as one of the Super Nintendo's best selling and most highly praised games of all time.

LurkerJ said:

As for Phil's statements, saying "I've heard it all before" is tempting but there have been many actions taken lately by MS to make me believe they're gearing up for a bang in terms of next-gen exclusive content.

Actions speak louder than words.



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Pemalite said:
Azzanation said:

400 is a big library however the whole Xbox only has Halo, Gears, and Forza saying is a poor judgement in what the console actually offers. Yes they are MS's biggest games however to excuse games like Killer Instinct and Ori just to name a couple is sort of disrespectful to the system.

I wasn't excusing them, even including them doesn't change my original point... That Microsoft is lacking substantial quantity of exclusive titles.
Plus they are missing some genre's in their exclusive lineup... But so is Sony and Nintendo for that matter, especially on the Turn-based and real-time strategy fronts.

Exclusives have been an Achilles heel of the Xbox from about half way through the Xbox 360 generation.

Azzanation said:

Killer Instinct is a game that's been heavily supported from day one back in 2013 and only recently has stopped with 3 Expansion Packs. Its been Xboxs best revival game. Its that good of a game that there is a high chance of it becoming a future staple to the Xbox brand. Fingers crossed for its future sequel being just as good as the 1st game. Also KI being on PC makes no difference since Halo, Gears and Forza are also on PC. It should be included in the discussion when talking about Xboxs Pillar games especially this gen. KI has carried the X1 and deserves credit from day one.

Killer Instinct is a great game, but I would prefer they did things a bit differently and drop the season stuff, it only just creates confusion for consumers when it comes to purchase time... But I digress, it's still an amazingly solid title with a ton of charm, they captured the original SNES feel perfectly, which is a hard task considering that the game wasn't done by the original developers, shit was even made by several different developers. - So props to Microsoft for managing that title well.

I feel that Killer Instinct could be bigger in the eSports arena if they handle the I.P. right.

The fact that Halo, Gears and Forza are also on PC just means they can't be regarded as true platform exclusives either... Not that I am complaining, I think it's a good thing if they end up on Steam, I prefer the PC.

Azzanation said:

400 is a big library however the whole Xbox only has Halo, Gears, and Forza saying is a poor judgement in what the console actually offers. Yes they are MS's biggest games however to excuse games like Killer Instinct and Ori just to name a couple is sort of disrespectful to the system.

Microsoft's "exclusives" (Loose term, they don't really exist anymore...) like Recore, Sunset Overdrive, Ori, Killer Instinct, Quantum Break, Cuphead and so on were great, they weren't ground breaking, they were available on other devices... Microsoft just hasn't been able to smash it out of the park like Sony has been able to do with say... Horizon or Spiderman. -They certainly haven't been able to throw out the sheer volume of exclusives either.

That doesn't mean the games are terrible, far from it... And it is criticisms like these that Microsoft takes note of and puts an effort in to improve, hence why they are building up their studio portfolio for next gen... And us, the consumer wins because of it.

Azzanation said:

This gen, the X1s best game series have been..

Ori and the Blind Forest (2 Games)

Killer Instinct (3 Expansions)

Halo (2 Games)

Gears Of War (2 Games)

Forza Motorsport (3 Games)

Forza Horizon (3 Games)

That's a lot of support for those games in 1 generation and we should be adding another 3 IPs to the typical Halo, Gears and Forza saying. KI, Ori and Horizon have earnt there place this gen and next gen shouldn't be any different. 

They are all on PC, except Halo 5, Forza Motorsport 5, 6 and Forza Horizon 2.

Those franchises (Forza, Gears and Halo) tends to be a good money spinner for Microsoft, so it makes sense they would keep pushing those franchises... And for good reason, they are solid franchises in their own right.

DonFerrari said:

About best looking console game on 7th gen I would still grant that title to either Killzone or TLOU.

Battlefield 4 is probably the best technical showpiece of the 7th gen as it was a massive multi-platform title that pushed Frostbite to the limits on 7th gen, the deferred renderer truly looked great when it debuted with Battlefield 3 with all it's effects, my jaw had to be picked up off the ground several times back then.

Killzone, The Last of Us, Uncharted, Halo 4 are great technical showpieces as well, no doubt about it, but I felt Battlefield took a larger technical leap.

LurkerJ said:

I believe Killer Instinct is being celebrated just because it is only on Xbox (and PC). The game is too basic and vastly better fighters have been released this generation. It benefited from being released early, nostalgia and being one of the few exclusives Xbox One has. It's an easy to pick up and fun to play fighter, like most fighters, but nothing special. 

Killer Instinct was "basic" on the Super Nintendo as well, it didn't really do anything novel that other fighters didn't do.

The difference is the package in it's entirety, the sound cues, the visual cues, the music, the atmosphere, the characters, the controls... The entire shebang.
The initial reviews were pretty mixed because of how bare-bones the game was on the Xbox One release, but considering those largest complaints have pretty much been rectified now...

The same goes for a game like Donkey Kong Country on the SNES... As a platformer it didn't really do anything new or novel that hadn't been done in a platformer before, but it's entire package as a whole had a ton of charm and fantastic visual and audio cues which propelled that game as one of the Super Nintendo's best selling and most highly praised games of all time.

LurkerJ said:

As for Phil's statements, saying "I've heard it all before" is tempting but there have been many actions taken lately by MS to make me believe they're gearing up for a bang in terms of next-gen exclusive content.

Actions speak louder than words.

I understood you were talking about the best presentations. Not the best multiplatform technical achievements. But nothing really important as we both would agree that the games listed were among the best and it would be a matter of taste of details to determine who would stand above all.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Echo_Djinn said:
If Xbox doesn't start taking notes from Japanese game design (Persona, Nier, Nioh, most Nintendo games) or Indie PC design (Factorio, Outward, A Hat in Time), then I can't see myself ever moving to Xbox. These developers are putting out such fantastic, innovative games, while Xbox just churns out the exact same stuff year after year.

You don't need an xbox to get their exclusives anymore. If you have a PC, you're good. Just letting you know in case you already have a good enough PC. You don't have to get an Xbox because they are bringing Xbox to you.



Honestly, i'm glad that interviewer bluntly interviewed Phil, because he needed to have an honest heart to heart with a reporter who wasn't going to kiss up to him. Lets hope those games are good.



DonFerrari said:

Even Phill Spencer agrees that the first party content of Xbox have been of lower quality, but some users on VGC won't accept it.

Plus I hate GAAS, and Phill basically showed they will double down on it, and "SP games are dead"

Well, there are two key flaws in your post.

First, GAAS can also apply to single player. The newest Ass Creed games for example, have big GAAS elements but offer huge, quality SP experiences. Forza Horizon is a prime example of GAAS but you can play through all of the amazing content in SP. 

Lastly, this idea that SP games are “dead” to MS is just a false narrative. Do you really think they went out and bought a slew of studios known for quality SP games just to make all of them jump ship to multiplayer? Please. Also, as big as MS has embraced GAAS, almost all of their games are still perfectly good SP games. Plus Papa Phil confirmed on twitter yesterday that those studios are going to be making more SP games. I’m sure you know his Twitter. 



LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:

Even Phill Spencer agrees that the first party content of Xbox have been of lower quality, but some users on VGC won't accept it.

Plus I hate GAAS, and Phill basically showed they will double down on it, and "SP games are dead"

Well, there are two key flaws in your post.

First, GAAS can also apply to single player. The newest Ass Creed games for example, have big GAAS elements but offer huge, quality SP experiences. Forza Horizon is a prime example of GAAS but you can play through all of the amazing content in SP. 

Lastly, this idea that SP games are “dead” to MS is just a false narrative. Do you really think they went out and bought a slew of studios known for quality SP games just to make all of them jump ship to multiplayer? Please. Also, as big as MS has embraced GAAS, almost all of their games are still perfectly good SP games. Plus Papa Phil confirmed on twitter yesterday that those studios are going to be making more SP games. I’m sure you know his Twitter. 

I don't use Twitter.

But I'm pretty sure we had threads in the recent past with posts from MS themselves claiming SP was dead.

And sorry, but putting GAAS into SP is a no go for me. I want my game to be complete when I start and that after I finish it within couple of weeks I'm good. The story needs to be self-contained.

At least you didn't say Phil is lying when he say the quality of MS output have been lower than it should.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994