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GoT season 8 final episode 6 tonight. (spoiler discussion) Fin. The end... for ever.

Forums - General Discussion - GoT season 8 final episode 6 tonight. (spoiler discussion) Fin. The end... for ever.

I'm...

Hyped. 24 55.81%
 
Mildly interested. 11 25.58%
 
Not bothered. 5 11.63%
 
/indifferent/not watched/other in comments. 3 6.98%
 
Total:43
John2290 said:
KiigelHeart said:

Wasn't it mentioned couple of times that he only sees many possible futures. I thought he didn't want to intervene so he won't affect the outcome. He could only hope everything plays out for the best. So he wouldn't even give any advice to Jon whether to tell his secret or not.

Also that petition is patchetic, self-entitled joke no matter how nicely Dylan tries to justify it. And this would be my opinion even if I hated the final season. Embarassing.

I don't know. I know he sees the past as it is, can't remember how the future viewing works, not even sure if he has viewed the future in the books. 

Greenseers do dream about the future, sometimes, but it's like prophecies, metaphoric and all. It's not the same thing as the power to consciously connect to the weirwoods and see the past as it was.

Either way, he's no Doctor Strange, that's for sure.



 

 

 

 

 

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Barkley said:
Marth said:

I was rooting for #TeamWhiteWalker but sadly they ruined that possibility after only 3 episodes. :(

It was really weird how they handled that, I was expecting us to get big reveals about the White Walkers/Night King and Bran/The Three Eyed raven this season but we learned basically nothing new about them, I was sure it'd come up again after episode 3 but it didn't. Nor did we learn anything about the lord of light either.

This is my biggest issue with the series as a whole. The very first scene of the whole series was with the whitewalkers.

Yes, the political drama was interesting and everything, but kings and villains kept coming and going every season, but the inminent threat that there was something else bigger than them all and their petty desires and greed, was always looming on the horizon. Since the very first episode.

So it was a HUGE disappointment for me when they were dealt with at the beginning of the season, because everything after that just felt.. pointless. No sense of danger. No sense of dread. Nothing.

It felt as if, after defeating Sauron in LoTR, Aragon and the other kings had spent one more hour of movie fighting each other for Middle Earth.



John2290 said:
KiigelHeart said:

Wasn't it mentioned couple of times that he only sees many possible futures. I thought he didn't want to intervene so he won't affect the outcome. He could only hope everything plays out for the best. So he wouldn't even give any advice to Jon whether to tell his secret or not.

Also that petition is patchetic, self-entitled joke no matter how nicely Dylan tries to justify it. And this would be my opinion even if I hated the final season. Embarassing.

I don't know. I know he sees the past as it is, can't remember how the future viewing works, not even sure if he has viewed the future in the books. 

Embarrassing or not, like I said it will show Disney and HBO that D&D fucked up and handled it very poorly. If their Star wars trilogy turns out to be a success  I'll eat my words gladly as I want it to be great and perhpas this will even usher them to take steps to make it so and go the distance, maybe ask for help if they needed it and get rid of their cocky attidute. 

That´s exactly the reason why I signed the petition as well. I know they are not gonna remake anything but at least this will tell Disney that they need to keep an eye on these guys.  And who knows?  maybe change them for someone else?



chakkra said:
Barkley said:

It was really weird how they handled that, I was expecting us to get big reveals about the White Walkers/Night King and Bran/The Three Eyed raven this season but we learned basically nothing new about them, I was sure it'd come up again after episode 3 but it didn't. Nor did we learn anything about the lord of light either.

This is my biggest issue with the series as a whole. The very first scene of the whole series was with the whitewalkers.

Yes, the political drama was interesting and everything, but kings and villains kept coming and going every season, but the inminent threat that there was something else bigger than them all and their petty desires and greed, was always looming on the horizon. Since the very first episode.

So it was a HUGE disappointment for me when they were dealt with at the beginning of the season, because everything after that just felt.. pointless. No sense of danger. No sense of dread. Nothing.

It felt as if, after defeating Sauron in LoTR, Aragon and the other kings had spent one more hour of movie fighting each other for Middle Earth.

What they could have done instead is that when Jamie arrives at Winterfell and tells them Cersei isn't keeping her promise, Daenerys realises that she's waiting for them to be weakened by the dead and then she'll wipe them out. So she decides that dealing with Cersei can't wait until after the dead have been dealt with and she leaves Winterfell to march south and take the Iron Throne. Jon strongly objects to this as this leaves Winterfell vulnerable to the dead. They march south anyway, episode 3 they have the big kings landing battle but Daenerys doesn't go on a rampage and instead heads straight for the keep. After the battle is won however she does execute every Lannister solider, Jon/Tyrion etc tell her to show mercy but she does not. Jon leaves with some forces to return to Winterfell while Daenerys stays behind at King's Landing for a couple of days to solidify her control of the capitol. Episode 4 would take some of the scenes from Episode 2 of the actual show, and would be an episode of everyone there preparing for the Attack from the dead, Daenerys does not arrive. Episode 5 would be the big battle at Winterfell, Daenerys does not arrive until the dead begin to breach the walls of Winterfell, when she appears with Drogon at first the fighting north men and wildlings think they might have a chance to turn the battle around, but then she starts indiscriminately burning the living along with the dead. It was clear to Daenerys that the battle was lost and anyone still living would soon be her enemy, marching with the dead. While she is burning Winterfell the Night King arrives at the garden to kill Bran, Arya kills him etc.

Episode 6 is similar to what we got, except it takes place in a ruined Winterfell rather than a ruined Kings Landing. Sansa is furious and due to her outburst and threats Daenerys has her arrested. Jon confronts Daenerys, not before being stripped of all weapons by the unsullied. He asks her to let Sansa go, she refuses and then they argue about her leaving Winterfell, putting the Iron Throne before saving lives, destroying Winterfell and burning the living along with the dead. Meanwhile Arya is talking to Bran about what he can see, and asks if he can see the future and if Sansa will be ok, he gives her a knowing look and the scene cuts back to Jon and Daenerys arguing. Grey Worm enters the room and Daenerys then threatens to have Jon executed too, revealing her plans for Sansa saying that she has made it clear that she will never accept Daenerys as her queen. Grey Worm approaches Jon and then holds out Jon's sword for him to take. "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword." With that it's revealed that Grey Worm is dead and it's actually Arya in disguise handing Jon his weapon, Jon Kills Daenerys. Wrapping up stuff happens.

Shat that out in 10 minutes, with a lot of refining I think that'd have been a better season overall. Daenerys' motivations are a bit less confusing than her just losing her freaking mind, and the Night King stuff happens at the end rather than the final battle being some one-sided confusing slaughter.



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Barkley said:
Marth said:

I was rooting for #TeamWhiteWalker but sadly they ruined that possibility after only 3 episodes. :(

It was really weird how they handled that, I was expecting us to get big reveals about the White Walkers/Night King and Bran/The Three Eyed raven this season but we learned basically nothing new about them, I was sure it'd come up again after episode 3 but it didn't. Nor did we learn anything about the lord of light either.

I suspect that's because GRRM hasn't fully fleshed them out yet. They have the basic outlines to each and put as much as they know into the show (which is more than the books at this stage).



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chakkra said:
Barkley said:

It was really weird how they handled that, I was expecting us to get big reveals about the White Walkers/Night King and Bran/The Three Eyed raven this season but we learned basically nothing new about them, I was sure it'd come up again after episode 3 but it didn't. Nor did we learn anything about the lord of light either.

This is my biggest issue with the series as a whole. The very first scene of the whole series was with the whitewalkers.

Yes, the political drama was interesting and everything, but kings and villains kept coming and going every season, but the inminent threat that there was something else bigger than them all and their petty desires and greed, was always looming on the horizon. Since the very first episode.

So it was a HUGE disappointment for me when they were dealt with at the beginning of the season, because everything after that just felt.. pointless. No sense of danger. No sense of dread. Nothing.

It felt as if, after defeating Sauron in LoTR, Aragon and the other kings had spent one more hour of movie fighting each other for Middle Earth.

The LotR did have the hobbits having to save the shire from Saruman (in the books) after defeating Sauron. I believe this is what GRRM is aiming for at the end of ASOIAF hence the end of this season. The big evil is defeated but people still have to figure out life afterwards leaving a bittersweet taste.



haxxiy said:
Scoobes said:

You get that this is George's ending, right?

The way they got there has deviated, but this is the ending as GRRM explained it to D&D before even the first season.

Martin started to share future plot points around 2013 - 2014 by his own admission. He wasn't convinced until about the fourth season was filmed that the show would overtake the books. That after unsucessfully pushing for AFFC and ADWD being adapted to three seasons instead of one.

This is very unlike the Harry Potter movies, where, for instance, JK Rowling shared with Alan Rickman his character's motivations even before the first movie so he could portrait Snape accordingly. All actors seem to have been flying blind as to their characters fates and motivations, on the other hand, from what Emilia Clarke, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Pilou Asbaek, Ian McElhinney etc. have said.

Either way, I'd be disappointed with Martin too if certain plot points are the same. The execution will likely be much better, yes, but thematically?. Remember when Martin posited the interesting questions of whether Aragorn would be a good ruler, after all, and what would ultimately happen to orcs and baby orcs after Sauron was defeated? if his answers are a magical boy on the throne and all the Others exploding into ice at the same time, then... eh. Whatever.

I've been following the ASOIAF forums from before the pilot was filmed. GRRM gave them the overall ending before the first season. When it was obvious the series would pass the books he fleshed it out with certain events like Shireen and the truth about Hodor.

Edit- I suspect GRRM and Rowling's writing styles are very different, otherwise GRRM would have finished ASOIAF already. GRRM write very organically and has set events in mind (like the magical boy and exploding the Others, lol) but writes his way to them, often restarting if he doesn't like the direction it heads. Hence why the actors wouldn't know the motivations as GRRM doesn't yet.

He has the advantage that he can actually write the character perspectives however. We'll probably get Bran chapters fleshing out that particular arc into something more substantial.

Last edited by Scoobes - on 20 May 2019

chakkra said:
John2290 said:

I don't know. I know he sees the past as it is, can't remember how the future viewing works, not even sure if he has viewed the future in the books. 

Embarrassing or not, like I said it will show Disney and HBO that D&D fucked up and handled it very poorly. If their Star wars trilogy turns out to be a success  I'll eat my words gladly as I want it to be great and perhpas this will even usher them to take steps to make it so and go the distance, maybe ask for help if they needed it and get rid of their cocky attidute. 

That´s exactly the reason why I signed the petition as well. I know they are not gonna remake anything but at least this will tell Disney that they need to keep an eye on these guys.  And who knows?  maybe change them for someone else?

Absolutely patchetic and flawed reasoning. These writers also brought you seasons that made you love the show. They were bringing GoT on screen. They were left with difficult task to continue GRRM's story, something even the author himself hasn't been able to do yet. While they most likely had pressure to make it a bigger production with more imoressive cinematic stuff.

The petition also is disrespecting everyone who worked on the show. Just write and tell people what you liked and what you didn't like but come on..

Just started watching the whole thing again. You guys should be slapped like Tyrion slapped Joffrey.



John2290 said:
Scoobes said:

You get that this is George's ending, right?

The way they got there has deviated, but this is the ending as GRRM explained it to D&D before even the first season.

Why do I keep having to repeat. The story beats for the most part were good, some great but they fucked the execution and ruined the characters for me in my mind. I hate Arya now, see Jon as a weak fool and Tyrion as a dumb shit because they had so little development, just skipping from beat to beat like robots. About 70 percent of the beats were good aside from the ending paths which I don't believe George will follow. Danys madness would have been AMAZING Had it been done right so would Jon killing her if the romance wasn't fumbled, Arya killing the night king all that shit but they scene cutting, jumping around and time skipping with no hints to it, so much happening off screen and so on plus the cringey ass dialouge toward the end. It could have been sooo good. All the dead ends like Azor ahai and the lord of light for one example. 

However no, George will not be following this because the books can't develop this way from the way it diverged in ADWD and everything that was cut in the show. Not exactly anyway, there will for sure be a large divergence and on what does hit the same notes will get there through fairly different paths. I can't imagine him giving the main character such little development either. 

Well, the fact that you perceive Arya, Jon and Tyrion that way suggests they did develop but you just didn't like the direction in which they went. Jon started acting weak and foolish after his resurrection which actually makes a lot of sense. Tyrion has been making foolish decisions after he left Westeros (and started heavily drinking) and his arc has gone from devilishly clever to humane but foolish drunk. He's developed in the polar opposite of Sansa's arc because of the weight of his actions leading up to his adventures in Essos. Not sure what you have against Arya, as that pretty much went as I expected.

Also, I think a lot of the time skipping has happened because they only have one story arc to fill. If you think back to the Shireen episode, Stannis was on screen of about 5 minutes at the start and 5 minutes at the end. We had a host of other story arcs to fill it in the middle giving the perception of time, but a lot of the development was off screen. I think they should have compensated for this by having more screen time for build-up, but there is also an argument to be made that they would have been dragging it out.

And of course there is a large divergence, the cast would have doubled if the show followed the same path as the books. But GRRM has written himself into a complex web of a writers hole that who knows if we'll ever see the final books. The final events, arcs and ending are what GRRM told D&D. It's one of the reasons the show's Dorne story was so neutered was because they knew it had so little impact in the end.



Scoobes said:
chakkra said:

This is my biggest issue with the series as a whole. The very first scene of the whole series was with the whitewalkers.

Yes, the political drama was interesting and everything, but kings and villains kept coming and going every season, but the inminent threat that there was something else bigger than them all and their petty desires and greed, was always looming on the horizon. Since the very first episode.

So it was a HUGE disappointment for me when they were dealt with at the beginning of the season, because everything after that just felt.. pointless. No sense of danger. No sense of dread. Nothing.

It felt as if, after defeating Sauron in LoTR, Aragon and the other kings had spent one more hour of movie fighting each other for Middle Earth.

The LotR did have the hobbits having to save the shire from Saruman (in the books) after defeating Sauron. I believe this is what GRRM is aiming for at the end of ASOIAF hence the end of this season. The big evil is defeated but people still have to figure out life afterwards leaving a bittersweet taste.

Figuring out life afterwards is what you do in the last 20 mins of your finale. But here we had the resolution of a main villain (and two secondary ones). The emergence of a new villain, and the resolution of said new villain. 

Nah, that just doesn´t do it for me.  But to each its own I guess.