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"Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker" Trailer

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forest-spirit said:
KLAMarine said:

Okay, let's make this simple: I wanna see Rey bleed. I wanna see her decapitated similar to how Luke was and Anakin was. Make her opposition more threatening in TFA, I appreciate Snoke getting the better of her in TLJ but in TFA, a lot of what she faces she gets out of a little too easy. Allow Han and Finn and Chewie rescue her from Ren's imprisonment: no mind trick.

Also, please allow Han to handle HIS Millennium Falcon; it's HIS Falcon. No need to have Rey show him up. It's a real shame Rey couldn't get a ship all her own that was distinctly hers, one I could call "Rey's ship and no one else's". Instead, she gets the Falcon which is just about tied to Han permanently.

Dafuq!? Since when do characters need to be freaking dismembered (pretty sure that was what you meant as decapitated means you get your head chopped off)? It's Star Wars, not Snuff Wars. If that's now a requirement then this discussion has gone completely insane.

Sorry, 'decapitate' was not the word I should have used. What I meant was have Rey actually face something dangerous like Luke did and get seriously harmed.



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KLAMarine said:
starcraft said:

You're describing the scene where Ren captures her in the forest outside Maz's castle. Also when the team of Han, Finn and Chewy saved her twice on Starkiller base (One could argue she got herself out of containment, there was no indication she had any clue what to do next and was certainly happy to see them. She was absolutely fucked in that forest after defeating Kylo if her friends hadn't picked her up).

In the second film Luke had to pull her out of the dark side during her training, and the second time she succumbed to it all the convincing in the world didn't stop her falling prey to Snoke's trickery and running to see him. Where she again got her ass handed to her, and had to be saved by Kylo, who she then failed to defeat.

Quick learner? Absolutely. Highly skilled? Sure. Powerful in the Force? Definitely.

Mary Sue? No.

Hell, even say she is, using that as a proxy to say that these are shit movies, financial follies or despised by the general SW fanbase as a few people are doing is an absolute boondoggle.

Okay, let's make this simple: I wanna see Rey bleed. I wanna see her decapitated similar to how Luke was and Anakin was. Make her opposition more threatening in TFA, I appreciate Snoke getting the better of her in TLJ but in TFA, a lot of what she faces she gets out of a little too easy. Allow Han and Finn and Chewie rescue her from Ren's imprisonment: no mind trick.

Also, please allow Han to handle HIS Millennium Falcon; it's HIS Falcon. No need to have Rey show him up. It's a real shame Rey couldn't get a ship all her own that was distinctly hers, one I could call "Rey's ship and no one else's". Instead, she gets the Falcon which is just about tied to Han permanently.

@ bolded

Can't have that.  Mary Sue's gotta Mary Sue.

d21lewis said:
I feel like Rey is definitely, 100% a "Mary Sue". It's like she wrote her own fanfiction and made herself the most awesome thing in the universe. The kind of drama I'd write about myself when I was in high school where "Everyone would finally find out he good I really am"--but that's just part of the reason I didn't enjoy Episode VIII.

Mostly it boils down to a poor story, poor pacing, and no payoff. I'll give Ep IX the benefit of the doubt. I think the prequel trilogy ended strong and made me enjoy the first two a bit more. Maybe ROS can do the same. I'll just walk in with realistic expectations.

Well, yea.  She checks pretty much every box for a Mary Sue.  She even inherited the Falcon, even though that should have gone to Chewy.  In fact, there has been no real argument against it.  Most just say, "Well, so is Luke."  Two problems with that.  One, that's not really a defense against her being one and their admission doesn't excuse it.  And two, these people obviously have no idea what a Mary Sue is.



epicurean said:

I suppose I fall somewhere in your category of hatedom. 

Do I think it was a really bad movie? Yes.
Do I think it "ruined my childhood"? No. I still have those memories and excitement.

But do I think it ruined the franchise? For me, for now, yes. But only because Luke was my childhood idol. He was the epitome of good and who I always wanted to "play as" as a kid. So the way they threw his character a way and turned him into what he turned into...it has an effect on the character from the previous movies. I can't watch the original trilogy and think about how great he is anymore because he tried to kill his nephew in his sleep. Then he became a coward and hid for decades while everyone around him suffered. 

I've said many times that I'm fine with it if others still enjoy it. I don't want my disdain ruin others' enjoyment. But, to me, the whole thing is ruined. Maybe they can retcon it somehow, but I really don't know how unless it was all a dream.

Hope you enjoy episode 9, though.

Not liking Luke's character portrayal is in and of itself not a bad opinion. But thinking that it ruins the franchise is, to me, overreacting a bit. Then there's the people that have gone on what a certain Jedi master would call "a damn fool idealistic crusade," which is overreacting a lot. As far as I can tell, you're not one of the latter.

Personally, I didn't have a problem with the way Luke was portrayed in TLJ. But I'm not just a fan of Star Wars. I also enjoy other franchises, like Halo and Star Trek, and they did do some things that bugged me. Halo: Reach jettisoned the entire last third of the novel The Fall of Reach, which was and still nominally is canon. There is no way to reconcile the two, and official policy is that the events of the game overwrite the events of the novel. I didn't like that, and I made my objections known and offered my opinions on how I think things should change in the future, but I didn't feel it ruined the whole franchise. And I sure as hell didn't go into an apoplectic rage fit over it, or demand the game's director or writer be fired, or agitate for a boycott, or write nasty comments towards key Bungie employees on social media, or spend 16 months harping on about it and creating dozens of hours of "shit sux" commentary on YouTube, or go on Metacritic and give it a score of zero (I personally scored it an 8/10, because I enjoyed the gameplay and other non-story elements quite a bit). I essentially got over it, and I didn't let my issues with the game consume me the way people's issues with changes to their object of fandom have consumed them. And that wasn't the first nor the last time a Halo game did some things that I really, really didn't like.

Star Trek: Discovery took a lot of liberties with the established art design, especially in regards to the Klingons. It bugged the hell out of me, because significant artistic inconsistencies create inconsistencies in the fiction. The look of the Klingons was largely unchanged from The Motion Picture in 1979 all the way up to Enterprise in the mid 00s. That look did contradict their look in TOS, but there were practical reasons (not enough budget in TOS to give them a more distinctive look), and the contradiction was joked about in DS9 and eventually given a plausible in-story reason in Enterprise. But in Discovery they just look different for no good reason. It bugged the hell out of me. But once again I got over it. I didn't let it impact my enjoyment of an otherwise good show, I didn't let it consume me, I didn't pitch a months-long rage fit over it online, and I didn't go on a crusade over it. And for what it's worth, the Discovery production crew have tried to make things look at least a bit closer to their traditional look (Klingons have hair now, they introduced the classic D7 cruiser, and they really nailed the look of the Enterprise).

That's what pisses me off about the most vocal detractors of The Last Jedi (and Disney-era Star Wars in general). They have pitched a months-long rage fit over it, taking every opportunity they can to scream "RUINED FOREVER!" And many of them have gone on a crusade over it, doing things like demanding Johnson and Kennedy be fired, write nasty comments towards them on social media, agitating for a boycott, spending months on end creating dozens of hours of "shit sux" commentary on YouTube, or going on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic en masse to review bomb it. Not liking a change to an aspect of the story in a long-running franchise is reasonable. But the reaction many have had to new Star Wars films is simply irrational and immature, and reflects the worst aspects of fandom.

haxxiy said:

Does criticism needs to be intelligent, though, when praise most often isn't?

Food for thought, here.

Yes, it should. Both praise and criticism should have some sort of rational basis, not just a bunch of mindless black-and-white "No, it's perfect!" "No, it's absolute shit!" back-and-forth.

Immersiveunreality said:

A big rant generalizing people that dislike a certain aspect of a movie into the haters group and in this same rant you also go nuts on the male characters of the past because ofcourse those that disagree with you just do not like females and you think this is how to get back at them?It is also really ironic that you can talk about badly written male characters and think its a solid argument for why a badly written female character is not badly written,if you stop bringing gender into it then you could also know that all PEOPLE can have badly written characters but no you did see a few posters talking about feminism (and mind you that same opinion is also shared by women)and you decide to project a supposedly "toxic" attitude on people that do not like the character you love. (also the male characters of the past you brought up have been laughed at since the movies released, so making the assumption that those bad written characters were overlooked is also plain wrong.)

Ofcourse some people got undeserved hate but that would be a "vocal minority" of the "vocal minority" and really everywhere you can find those kind of people,those you ignore do not hate but just dislike something about the movie and that is shared by a lot.

Most of the youtubers and commenters i have seen like female characters but just do not like how Rey was written in The last jedi,if you do find she was wellwritten then thats good but dont blame others having an opinion onto blind hate.

I didn't generalize anyone. At no point did I claim that everyone who disliked The Last Jedi fit into one of the groups of people engaging in irrational overreaction. I imagine most people that didn't like it didn't let it consume them like some others have.

chakkra said:

Ok..

I can see you feel really strongly about this subject. But I don't really understand why? I mean, yes, we hate on the movie. Yes, some of us think it is one the worst movies in cinema history. But what's it to you? I mean, did you write it? did you work on it? Why are getting so worked up about people not liking someone else's work? Why don't you let Ryan Jonhson defend his creative vision himself?

Project much? I really like how you're trying to flip this back around on me. "Why can't you just let us hate and rage in peace?" Listen, I still like Star Wars, and I'd really like it if literally every thread having anything to do with Star Wars films didn't immediately devolve into a bunch of "Shit sux! Worst movie ever! Star Wars is ruined!" nonsense (and I especially could do without the "Keep the feminists/SJWs away from muh Star Wars!" crap). Is that too much to ask for? Does everything having to do with Star Wars have to be negative now?

Last edited by Shadow1980 - on 17 April 2019

Shadow1980 said:
haxxiy said:

Does criticism needs to be intelligent, though, when praise most often isn't?

Food for thought, here.

Yes, it should. Both praise and criticism should have some sort of rational basis, not just a bunch of mindless black-and-white "No, it's perfect!" "No, it's absolute shit!" back-and-forth.

 

I agree! But then, you'd pretty much kill Reddit, Facebook and Youtube comments in one blow.

Not to mention the omnipresent like-dislike and star rating buttons...

Hell, they've even added an "agree" button in VGchartz posts as a new feature. So things aren't getting better anytime soon.



 

 

 

 

 

chakkra said:

Ok..

I can see you feel really strongly about this subject. But I don't really understand why? I mean, yes, we hate on the movie. Yes, some of us think it is one the worst movies in cinema history. But what's it to you? I mean, did you write it? did you work on it? Why are getting so worked up about people not liking someone else's work? Why don't you let Ryan Jonhson defend his creative vision himself?

Project much? I really like how you're trying to flip this back around on me. "Why can't you just let us hate and rage in peace?" Listen, I still like Star Wars, and I'd really like it if literally every thread having anything to do with Star Wars films didn't immediately devolve into a bunch of "Shit sux! Worst movie ever! Star Wars is ruined!" nonsense (and I especially could do without the "Keep the feminists/SJWs away from muh Star Wars!" crap). Is that too much to ask for? Does everything having to do with Star Wars have to be negative now?

Well, I guess life is not perfect.


I wish I had enjoyed this new trilogy more and that it didn't ruin the whole franchise for me. But alas, I couldn't get what I wanted. Now you wish you didn´t hear people complaining so much about the movie. But alas, you're not gonna get what you want either because, sorry to tell you this, but I´m afraid we're gonna be complaining about this one for all eternity.

Now you can keep on your crusade to defend it. It is not my place to tell you to stop. I mean, at the end of the day we like what we like. But like I said, I would advise you to not get so worked up about people not liking someone else's work.



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I think The Last Jedi gets "a bad rap" but TFA, while fun, seems to get a pass. With the original trilogy, a story arch is complete. Luke goes from farm boy to hero of the Galaxy, Han goes from scoundrel to loyal friend willing to sacrifice his happiness, etc. Vader redeems himself (as much as he could, I guess.). The big villain is defeated. Everything is tied up in a neat little bow.

With the current trilogy, they untied the bow and kinda took a dump in the box. Han went back to being a criminal for some reason. Luke became... whatever he became. Now, it seems like even the big villain who finally got defeated in the end didn't even get his comeuppance.

I love Star Wars. I always will, even when I hate it. People say the old movies will always be there--but it does effect the enjoyment when you know that the happy ending doesn't really end up happily for anyone. They meet mostly tragic ends. I salivated at the idea of more Star Wars with modern technology but now it kinda makes me sad.

Despite all of their flaws, the prequels had a central cast that I cared about. Sure, they were no Luke, Han, and Leia but I enjoyed Anakin, Obi Wan, and Padme. The familiar characters like Yoda seemed to be treated with respect. The new trilogy, so far, hasn't given me someone to cheer for and the old characters have become sad and unfamiliar. This, on top of the directionless story and unimaginative worlds and scenarios we've come to expect.

Rise of Skywalker really has its work cut out for itself.



Twitter: @d21lewis  --I'll add you if you add me!!

d21lewis said:
I think The Last Jedi gets "a bad rap" but TFA, while fun, seems to get a pass. With the original trilogy, a story arch is complete. Luke goes from farm boy to hero of the Galaxy, Han goes from scoundrel to loyal friend willing to sacrifice his happiness, etc. Vader redeems himself (as much as he could, I guess.). The big villain is defeated. Everything is tied up in a neat little bow.

With the current trilogy, they untied the bow and kinda took a dump in the box. Han went back to being a criminal for some reason. Luke became... whatever he became. Now, it seems like even the big villain who finally got defeated in the end didn't even get his comeuppance.

I love Star Wars. I always will, even when I hate it. People say the old movies will always be there--but it does effect the enjoyment when you know that the happy ending doesn't really end up happily for anyone. They meet mostly tragic ends. I salivated at the idea of more Star Wars with modern technology but now it kinda makes me sad.

Despite all of their flaws, the prequels had a central cast that I cared about. Sure, they were no Luke, Han, and Leia but I enjoyed Anakin, Obi Wan, and Padme. The familiar characters like Yoda seemed to be treated with respect. The new trilogy, so far, hasn't given me someone to cheer for and the old characters have become sad and unfamiliar. This, on top of the directionless story and unimaginative worlds and scenarios we've come to expect.

Rise of Skywalker really has its work cut out for itself.

Totally agree with you there. I usually get caught up on the TLJ talk but my issues with this trilogy actually began with the TFA for all the reasons you just said.

And it especially bothers me the bold part. Now everything about the previous movies feel worthless.

The Skywalker saga was already finished (and very nicely finished at that). They really should have used a totally different storyline for this new trilogy.



haxxiy said:

I agree! But then, you'd pretty much kill Reddit, Facebook and Youtube comments in one blow.

Not to mention the omnipresent like-dislike and star rating buttons...

Hell, they've even added an "agree" button in VGchartz posts as a new feature. So things aren't getting better anytime soon.

I do indeed blame the internet. I never saw inter- and intra-fandom "wars" get as nasty as they did once everyone had an anonymous platform from which to speak. I was in middle school when the 16-bit wars were raging, but honestly that "war" was mostly a close sales race, with a one-sided attack campaign from Sega of America. Among my friends and classmates, we honestly did not make a huge deal about whether we thought the SNES or Genesis was better, but that's because we all knew each other and were around each other all the time. In the internet age, it's become fashionable to attack people for liking the "wrong" console, movie, TV show, etc.

chakkra said:

Well, I guess life is not perfect.


I wish I had enjoyed this new trilogy more and that it didn't ruin the whole franchise for me. But alas, I couldn't get what I wanted. Now you wish you didn´t hear people complaining so much about the movie. But alas, you're not gonna get what you want either because, sorry to tell you this, but I´m afraid we're gonna be complaining about this one for all eternity.

Now you can keep on your crusade to defend it. It is not my place to tell you to stop. I mean, at the end of the day we like what we like. But like I said, I would advise you to not get so worked up about people not liking someone else's work.

One post calling out the haters ≠ a crusade.

It's almost like you're intentionally trying to antagonize me. So, would you kindly just not bother replying to anything I have to say on this topic anymore?



Shadow1980 said:
haxxiy said:

I agree! But then, you'd pretty much kill Reddit, Facebook and Youtube comments in one blow.

Not to mention the omnipresent like-dislike and star rating buttons...

Hell, they've even added an "agree" button in VGchartz posts as a new feature. So things aren't getting better anytime soon.

I do indeed blame the internet. I never saw inter- and intra-fandom "wars" get as nasty as they did once everyone had an anonymous platform from which to speak. I was in middle school when the 16-bit wars were raging, but honestly that "war" was mostly a close sales race, with a one-sided attack campaign from Sega of America. Among my friends and classmates, we honestly did not make a huge deal about whether we thought the SNES or Genesis was better, but that's because we all knew each other and were around each other all the time. In the internet age, it's become fashionable to attack people for liking the "wrong" console, movie, TV show, etc.

chakkra said:

Well, I guess life is not perfect.


I wish I had enjoyed this new trilogy more and that it didn't ruin the whole franchise for me. But alas, I couldn't get what I wanted. Now you wish you didn´t hear people complaining so much about the movie. But alas, you're not gonna get what you want either because, sorry to tell you this, but I´m afraid we're gonna be complaining about this one for all eternity.

Now you can keep on your crusade to defend it. It is not my place to tell you to stop. I mean, at the end of the day we like what we like. But like I said, I would advise you to not get so worked up about people not liking someone else's work.

One post calling out the haters ≠ a crusade.

It's almost like you're intentionally trying to antagonize me. So, would you kindly just not bother replying to anything I have to say on this topic anymore?

I really was not going to.



I feel some overstate the horrible nature of TLJ and I especially have a distaste for those who inject their social politic bs into it (whether it comes from either "side"). I feel like with the internet especially, people just drive eachother into a frenzy and things snowball to ridiculous levels.

I wish we can just call it an incredibly dumb and boring movie and leave it at that, move on a hope J.J. will be able to salvage something from the mess left to him with Episode IX.

But I suppose some people take it personally when they see their one of their cherished franchises being left in ruin (at least this is how I see it). To me it's a bit childish and pointless, but so is it childish and pointless to those who seem to take it personal that OTHERS hate this movie, or worse - attack and negatively label others for doing so. Like, what do you care? They have a right to vent about it, given the circumstances, especially those who spent their money to go see it. What's the old saying, "the customer is always right"?

Personally, I still think Episode I is the worst Star Wars film ever made, though the Last Jedi is a close second :P (it certainly looks much nicer visually w/some cool effects, and I prefer the darker tinge to the goofy kiddie themes, Kylo and even Luke at least had hints of depth at times, but in the end it was just very poorly executed).

I am still planning on seeing Episode IX if only because J.J. is back to directing it and it's looking like Palpatine and Luke will be making returns (at least in some form), though TLJ did indeed kill 80% of my hype and sense of wonder I once felt towards this series.