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Who is Sony's main threat/competitor today?

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Who is Sony's main threat/competitor today?

Microsoft 17 19.32%
 
Nintendo 29 32.95%
 
A new Player (Google, Nvi... 6 6.82%
 
Sony 36 40.91%
 
Total:88
potato_hamster said:
KBG29 said:

I swear we live in two different worlds. Most people I talk to are fully aware of what TV OS, Set Top Box, Console, or PC they are using to get content to their TV, along with knowing what Apps they enjoy on said OS.

Android is absolutely what damaged Sony's Mobile and TV business. They were doing great in the Mobile space with PSP and TV sales were fine when they were running their own OS. When they bought complete control of their Phone business and Killed off PS Vita to focus exclusively on Android based Xperia's is the exact moment that they started loosing billions and declining in sales. Ever since they dropped their own OS on their TVs and moved to Android sales and profits have fallen every year. Android has done nothing but hurt Sony, and it has drove a wedge between PlayStation and the rest of the company. Xperia and Bravia do not push Sony services, or interact with the PS4. They actually compete directly with Sony, and push Google services over Sony's own. Sony looses on the sale of the hardware, and every time a user grabs anything from the Google Play Store and Google services instead of PS Store and PS Services.

Of course I compare consoles to PC, Smart TV, and Set Top Boxes, saying they don't compete is no different than saying iOS and Android didn't compete against Handhelds. We have already seen how foolish it was to pretend competition doesn't exist in the Mobile space, why would we do it again in the Home space?

As for why PS5 will fail when PS4 has succeeded. PS5 will be facing a market where people can play Madden 20, NBA 2K20, Grand Theft Auto 6, and Future Assasin's Creed and Call of Duty titles, directly on their TV, with a controller, or via PC, or a Set Top Box, or on their Tablet/Phone, or on their Tablet/Phone with a controller, or with their Tablet/Phone streamed to their TV with a controller. PS4 did not face a market, where the devices people are using every day for every other computing and entertainment experience, also had the ability to deliver the same gaming experience as PS4. PS5 will be facing a market where all of these device offer the same, or an even better experience than PS5.

PlayStation 5 will fail because it doesn't offer anything people can't already get from every other device they own. Sony will fail, because they have not made an ecosystem of devices that allow people to get done what they need to get done. That is why I say Sony is Sony/PlayStation's greatest threat. They have everything they need to build an ecosystem that can compete with Apple, Microsoft, and Google, but they fail time and time again to capitalize. There is nothing Apple, Google, and Microsoft can do to over take Sony in gaming, only what Sony won't do to compete against iOS, Android, and Windows. PS5, a single Home console, can not fight against ecosystems with devices that span all form factors.

You have some strange friends if you think your average joe cares what operating system their TV runs.

Ya I own multiple smart TVs and I've never put 2 seconds of thought into what OS my TV runs until reading this conversation. Most people look at a combination of price, screen size & resolution when getting a TV. People dont care about OS, all they care about is if it has the popular apps like Netflix, Hulu, etc.



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zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:

You have some strange friends if you think your average joe cares what operating system their TV runs.

Ya I own multiple smart TVs and I've never put 2 seconds of thought into what OS my TV runs until reading this conversation. Most people look at a combination of price, screen size & resolution when getting a TV. People dont care about OS, all they care about is if it has the popular apps like Netflix, Hulu, etc.



Same thing goes for car stereos. All people care about is whether they support Android Auto or Apple Carplay, and pretty much nothing else.



nintendo ms google apple any big tech company can be a threat thinking otherwise would lead me to think people are just fanboying for their preferred brands



I might have a bit too naive way of looking at this, but I would say that Nintendo in Japan and Microsoft in other parts of the world.



padib said:

  • but are also experimenting with games as a service (streaming) with Playstation Now.

PS Now is out for 5 years now, launched just after the launch of the PS4, how is this still "experimenting" ?



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potato_hamster said:
KBG29 said:

I swear we live in two different worlds. Most people I talk to are fully aware of what TV OS, Set Top Box, Console, or PC they are using to get content to their TV, along with knowing what Apps they enjoy on said OS.

Android is absolutely what damaged Sony's Mobile and TV business. They were doing great in the Mobile space with PSP and TV sales were fine when they were running their own OS. When they bought complete control of their Phone business and Killed off PS Vita to focus exclusively on Android based Xperia's is the exact moment that they started loosing billions and declining in sales. Ever since they dropped their own OS on their TVs and moved to Android sales and profits have fallen every year. Android has done nothing but hurt Sony, and it has drove a wedge between PlayStation and the rest of the company. Xperia and Bravia do not push Sony services, or interact with the PS4. They actually compete directly with Sony, and push Google services over Sony's own. Sony looses on the sale of the hardware, and every time a user grabs anything from the Google Play Store and Google services instead of PS Store and PS Services.

Of course I compare consoles to PC, Smart TV, and Set Top Boxes, saying they don't compete is no different than saying iOS and Android didn't compete against Handhelds. We have already seen how foolish it was to pretend competition doesn't exist in the Mobile space, why would we do it again in the Home space?

As for why PS5 will fail when PS4 has succeeded. PS5 will be facing a market where people can play Madden 20, NBA 2K20, Grand Theft Auto 6, and Future Assasin's Creed and Call of Duty titles, directly on their TV, with a controller, or via PC, or a Set Top Box, or on their Tablet/Phone, or on their Tablet/Phone with a controller, or with their Tablet/Phone streamed to their TV with a controller. PS4 did not face a market, where the devices people are using every day for every other computing and entertainment experience, also had the ability to deliver the same gaming experience as PS4. PS5 will be facing a market where all of these device offer the same, or an even better experience than PS5.

PlayStation 5 will fail because it doesn't offer anything people can't already get from every other device they own. Sony will fail, because they have not made an ecosystem of devices that allow people to get done what they need to get done. That is why I say Sony is Sony/PlayStation's greatest threat. They have everything they need to build an ecosystem that can compete with Apple, Microsoft, and Google, but they fail time and time again to capitalize. There is nothing Apple, Google, and Microsoft can do to over take Sony in gaming, only what Sony won't do to compete against iOS, Android, and Windows. PS5, a single Home console, can not fight against ecosystems with devices that span all form factors.

You have some strange friends if you think your average joe cares what operating system their TV runs.

If you want to argue with a straight face that Sony adopting Android OS onto their phones instead of whatever OS they were running before that that was getting completely and utterly shredded by Android and iOS actually hurt Sony's phone sales rather than sticking with whatever they had or putting on their own new, OS and trying to go toe-to-toe with google and apple in the cell phone, well.... you're entitled to think that, I guess, but that's about as polite as I can be.

Ohh, and Sony never "killed off the Vita to focus on Xperia". The Vita was still born. They just accepted its death and moved on.

Ohh you think you're going to be able to play Madden 20 or GTA 6 on a tablet or directly off a smart TV and get an experience that's close enough? That's cute. You think that streaming is going to be good enough to compete with dedicated hardware directly? That's cute too. You think that people are going to spend $60 to play Madden on their iPad? That's just plain adorable. None of those devices are going to offer the same or even a "good enough" experience to a PS5 or Xbox Two. You're going to be in for a rude awakening when in 5-6 years time these two consoles have a combined 120+ million in sales and people are still using the phones and tablets to play Angry Birds or whatever generic free mobile game is popular then. You must be REALLY confused how Nintendo has sold 30+ million Switches in less than 2 years. Shouldn't Apple and Google be eating Nintendo's dinner at the "portable gaming space" by your metrics?

Do you know the average Joe?

I very rarely meet anyone regardless of if they are a child, middle age, or elderly that does not know what device or OS they are using to get content to their TV. Name an OS that can be used either on a TV, Set Top Box, Streaming Stick, Console, or PC, and I can tell you numerous people that are die hards for it. Obviously not everyone cares, but you would be surprised who does, and even more surprised how important it is to them.

Laugh all you want about what kind of experience you think are coming to these devices, just remember progress is real, and a lot changes over time.

Where you get the idea I think people are going to pay $60 to play a game exclusively on their tablet I haven't a clue. It is not even remotely what I am claiming, or what companies are even talking about. The idea is that people pay $60 per game, or $10 -$20 a month for a library of games, and they will have access to that game on every device they own. That is where Sony is going to get hit hard if they don't stay competitive. If $60 on a game in the PlayStation Ecosystem gets you the rights to play a game on exclusively PS5, while $60 on Microsoft, Google, or Apple, gets you the rights to play the game on your PC, TV, Set Top Box, Console, Tablet, Phone, and Handheld, then Sony is going to be an obvious rip off. As far as we know right now, that is exactly the direction Microsoft and Google are going, and unless Sony has something up their sleeve, PlayStation games will be PS5 only.

I don't know why I would be surprised with the Switch's sales, they are selling a device that replaces both their Home and Mobile offerings. Nintendo has almost exclusively sold devices on 3rd party content for 20+ years. I would be more shocked if a Nintendo handheld/Console Hybrid with the entire Nintendo library was a failure. Thinking that the Switch would be a failure would completely contradict my theory that an Xbox or PlayStation Phone would be a viable device within the Windows and PlayStation Ecosystems.

At the end of the day, I hope you are right. I hope that PlayStation succeeds, and doesn't get wiped away by complacency. PlayStation has been the Home of 99% of my digital experiences since I was 9 years old. Things just don't look all that rosy right now.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

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KBG29 on PSN&XBL

potato_hamster said:
KBG29 said:
Sony's main threat, as always, is Sony itself. They have the tools to maintain and expand Playstation, but will they be able to come together as a unified force, or will they continue to in fight.

All Sony has to due to continue leading is offer value and freedom. They need to deliver multiple solutions to access Playstation Software and Services Locally and Over the Cloud. I have said it before, and I will say it again. Sony needs to deliver a unified experience across its VR, TVs, Consoles, Tablets, Handheld, and Phones.

If Sony can offer consumers the ability to boot up the PlayStation OS, Access the PlayStation Store and PSN, and enjoy their entire Library from every Sony device, then Sony maintains their dominance in gaming.

If Sony restricts its user base to a single device, then the entire rest of the electronics industry is a massive threat. Microsoft are well on the way to offering Local and Native playback of Xbox Games across Windows PC, Laptops, Tablets Etc., and Xbox Console, elsewhere they will have xCloud. Google is strongly rumored to have native playback available via a Set Top Box/Console, supplemented by Stream for other devices. There are also rumors of Amazon and Apple both delivering a Gaming Platform in the near future.

AAA games are not going to be limited to console going forward, they won't be limited to Handheld, PC, or even Smartphone. Next gen will be about being able to game where you want, at the level of detail you want to pay for.

If Sony doesn't double down on PlayStation, and broaden its horizons, PS5 will be the Vita of the console market. As always, the ball is in their court.

Sony isn't going to do anything you suggested for obvious reasons that you pretend are irrelevant, and the PS5 will still not be the vita of the console market.

Apple technically has a "gaming platform" right now. Here. Watch some random play Angry Birds on the apple TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIIORzt33xU

There's no reason to suspect their boxes will be anything more than Ouya 2.0. Like great, my wife will be able to play bejeweled blitz and pokemon go from the comfort of her own home -  so what? The console gaming market is small potatoes for Apple and Google, and the barriers to enter and compete and fucking massive compared to pretty much anything else. You can't even convince apple or google to spend 1/10th the cost of a AAA gaming budget to make a smartphone game as it is since there is about a 0% chance you're going to convince your average cellphone/tablet user to spend $60 on a game for their phone, and they're not gonna care less about being able to play that game on TVs or car stereos, much less be willing to pay extra for it. What makes you think Apple/Google are going to do that for a device that will at best sell a small fraction of what smartphone and tablet sales amount to? They just don't care, and will continue to not care. Like I said, it's small potatoes and it's an established industry. There's no reason to Apple or Google to pick up that torch and fight Sony and Nintendo over video games.

Sony's going to do what Sony does best. Make solid gaming hardware, and give people reasons to buy that over the other options. That certainly doesn't involve putting putting an OS as bloated as the Playstation OS on fucking TVs and smartphones. Sony already had their own offerings and moved away from them for every obvious reasons that you still want to pretend are irrelevant.

Sony could work more for the OS on their TVs support app for PSNow or let's say stream play from a PS system on a different room (like remote play). And could also allow app to work on their console to have store for Android and iOS games.

They could also improve their phones to run better games and even get back to Playstation Phone (don't think it would be good), can make a new HH that have easy scalability to run same game bought on PS5.

But nothing like what KBG29 hopes with unified PS OS.

zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:

You have some strange friends if you think your average joe cares what operating system their TV runs.

Ya I own multiple smart TVs and I've never put 2 seconds of thought into what OS my TV runs until reading this conversation. Most people look at a combination of price, screen size & resolution when getting a TV. People dont care about OS, all they care about is if it has the popular apps like Netflix, Hulu, etc.

I just know the OS of my TV because of the marketplace icon and that when I reset it shows it is android. Besides that I saw the OS when I was looking at compatible app to do specific things on my TV. But yes haven't heard anyone but KBG29 friends caring any for the TV OS.

Baddman said:
nintendo ms google apple any big tech company can be a threat thinking otherwise would lead me to think people are just fanboying for their preferred brands

Or just looking at historic.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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KBG29 said:
potato_hamster said:

You have some strange friends if you think your average joe cares what operating system their TV runs.

If you want to argue with a straight face that Sony adopting Android OS onto their phones instead of whatever OS they were running before that that was getting completely and utterly shredded by Android and iOS actually hurt Sony's phone sales rather than sticking with whatever they had or putting on their own new, OS and trying to go toe-to-toe with google and apple in the cell phone, well.... you're entitled to think that, I guess, but that's about as polite as I can be.

Ohh, and Sony never "killed off the Vita to focus on Xperia". The Vita was still born. They just accepted its death and moved on.

Ohh you think you're going to be able to play Madden 20 or GTA 6 on a tablet or directly off a smart TV and get an experience that's close enough? That's cute. You think that streaming is going to be good enough to compete with dedicated hardware directly? That's cute too. You think that people are going to spend $60 to play Madden on their iPad? That's just plain adorable. None of those devices are going to offer the same or even a "good enough" experience to a PS5 or Xbox Two. You're going to be in for a rude awakening when in 5-6 years time these two consoles have a combined 120+ million in sales and people are still using the phones and tablets to play Angry Birds or whatever generic free mobile game is popular then. You must be REALLY confused how Nintendo has sold 30+ million Switches in less than 2 years. Shouldn't Apple and Google be eating Nintendo's dinner at the "portable gaming space" by your metrics?

Do you know the average Joe?

I very rarely meet anyone regardless of if they are a child, middle age, or elderly that does not know what device or OS they are using to get content to their TV. Name an OS that can be used either on a TV, Set Top Box, Streaming Stick, Console, or PC, and I can tell you numerous people that are die hards for it. Obviously not everyone cares, but you would be surprised who does, and even more surprised how important it is to them.

Laugh all you want about what kind of experience you think are coming to these devices, just remember progress is real, and a lot changes over time.

Where you get the idea I think people are going to pay $60 to play a game exclusively on their tablet I haven't a clue. It is not even remotely what I am claiming, or what companies are even talking about. The idea is that people pay $60 per game, or $10 -$20 a month for a library of games, and they will have access to that game on every device they own. That is where Sony is going to get hit hard if they don't stay competitive. If $60 on a game in the PlayStation Ecosystem gets you the rights to play a game on exclusively PS5, while $60 on Microsoft, Google, or Apple, gets you the rights to play the game on your PC, TV, Set Top Box, Console, Tablet, Phone, and Handheld, then Sony is going to be an obvious rip off. As far as we know right now, that is exactly the direction Microsoft and Google are going, and unless Sony has something up their sleeve, PlayStation games will be PS5 only.

I don't know why I would be surprised with the Switch's sales, they are selling a device that replaces both their Home and Mobile offerings. Nintendo has almost exclusively sold devices on 3rd party content for 20+ years. I would be more shocked if a Nintendo handheld/Console Hybrid with the entire Nintendo library was a failure. Thinking that the Switch would be a failure would completely contradict my theory that an Xbox or PlayStation Phone would be a viable device within the Windows and PlayStation Ecosystems.

At the end of the day, I hope you are right. I hope that PlayStation succeeds, and doesn't get wiped away by complacency. PlayStation has been the Home of 99% of my digital experiences since I was 9 years old. Things just don't look all that rosy right now.

Maybe it's because you live inear Seattle, which you know, was Silicon Valley before Silicon Valley was a thing, and is still a giant tech hub.  I bet the average person's tech literacy there is signifcantly higher than most anywhere else in the country or probably the world.

Do I know the average joe? I like to think I do. Most of my friends, families, peers, etc are not tech enthusiasts. They barely know what an HDMI cord is. Most of my kid's friend's moms (and you're talking about university graduate late 20's/early 30's women) refer to all game consoles as "Nintendos". They couldn't give less of a shit what operating system of their tv is because most of them don't even realize that the menus that allow them to watch netflix using their TV remote control is "an operating system". I don't know anyone who has a solar panel installed on their room. I don't know anyone that owns an electric car. Your average joe is very tech illiterate. If you don't believe me, just go to an apple store and listen in to someone giving a tutorial on how to do basic functions on their shiny new iPhone. They offer those classes because a significant portion of the population doesn't know how these things works, and can't figure them out on their own.

While you're at it. Why don't you look into what the average american internet connection is. I think the results will absolutely shock you. Have you learned nothing from the Xbox One launch? The average american's internet situation isn't actually improved that much in the last five years.

Just like VR, people aren't going to want to put the time and effort into dicking around with technology if it doesn't offer an experience that is worth the effort. If someone just owns a tablet and not a gaming PC or a console is not going to shell out $60 for Madden. Period. Full stop. It's patently ridiculous to think that. No one is gonna want to shell out $60 for madden to play it on an 8" tablet with touch screen controls, especially if it's streamed The only reason game pass is getting the latest and greatest games from MS is because they're no longer selling in meaningful numbers on their own. Sony's dominance in the console space has forced MS to devalue their game brands into a $20 a month subscription, which I might add, I bet you'd be surprised how many xbox one owners have no idea what Game Pass is.  I assure you they'd much rather be doing what Sony is doing and getting the sales Sony is getting.

Nintendo has exclusively sold devices on third party content? I take it you mean first party content? And please, lighten up on the "hybrid" talk. It's a portable console that came with a dock in the box. It's not exactly revolutionary. But hey, Sony has ate Nintendo's lunch in the home console space that even they have given up on trying to compete. Also, what are you talking about with Nintendo and MS teaming up? Nintendo is allowing some Xbox live integration to facilitate cross console network play. Everything else is just a rumour.

It does seem strange to me that you think it's sensible that Nintendo is making a portable device that competes for pocket space with cell phones that isn't getting its lunch eaten by Apple and Google, but Sony, dominating a home console, with a first party lineup that's arguably stronger and more popular than it's ever been before is a fucking finger snap from an Apple and Google exec from being decimated in the home console space, even though neither have even come close to attempting a home console offering... because Sony's Smartphones and TVs don't run a Sony Playstation-based operating system. There's a disconnect in your logic there.

Things are just fine in Sony Playstation land. They're just not doing what you want them them to do, and you've convinced yourself that the sky is falling on them as a result.



In North America/UK/Australia, Microsoft is their biggest competition.
In Japan, Nintendo is their competition.

In the rest of the world, their only competition is themselves.



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

People seem to think that streaming games to mobile devices are a serious threat to Sony. Here's a couple of things they don't realize.

1. Just to stream PS3 games at 720p you need 8 Mbps just to get a decent image. 

2. The average US consumer's internet speed is only 18 Mbps. 

3. The majority of people living in the USA don't have 18 Mbps. The average is increased by a minority that have much better internet than that. 

4. 1080p is 2.5 times larger than 720p. 

5. I'm not a tech junkie, but I'm willing to bet that it takes 2.5 as much internet speed to go from 720 streaming to 1080 streaming. 

6. ISPs are slowly moving towards charging customers by the gigabyte, or putting caps on data, in the USA.



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true.