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Trump's Personal Lawyer And Campaign Manager Both Going To Prison

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NightlyPoe said:
Hiku said:

By desires, you mean the way he phrased it to Comey? It may depend on how a jury would see it.
If someone walks up to you and says "That's a nice daughter you have there. It'd be a shame if something were to happen to her...", the "I was just expressing my thoughts and concerns" defense probably wouldn't convince a jury.
Comey said under oath that he was "stunned" by Trump's request, and that he "saw it as a direction".

Let me make this as clear as I can.  If Trump had walked up to Comey and said "I order you to drop the matter and will fire you if you don't" that still would have been legal.  As the president, that's completely within his power and is not obstruction of justice.  We don't have to dance around whether it was an implied order or threat or whatever.

 

You are right that the President has exactly that right and we would still be in the same place we are at right now.  Comey could refuse, tell the AG.  Trump could threaten the AG and fire him and Comey if they do not comply.  Then Congress would get into the mix because then it becomes the same incident it is today.  The fact of the matter is, obstruction of justice is when the president steps in the way of an active investigation that ties him or he is involved.  Its why people in government like Sessions recuse themselves from such things because of their interest and its the reason the President should do the same.  If not then he forces Congress to step in and find him obstructing justice which is a impeachable offense.  Saying that Trump has the right to do something and forgetting that not all actions do not lead to him getting canned is ignoring how the US system works.

We are here today because Trump in his infinite wisdom decided to go on national TV and admit that he fired Comey over an investigation that involved him.  He had the excuse from Session and Rosenstien but instead he wanted it to be about his decision and about himself.  Because of that ego, he place himself in legal jeopardy and reaping all the rewards.  Stop defending this guy for people an idiot and not following direction when people actually give him his outs.

Even the payment hush money is another prime example.  If you have all that crap stored in your locker and you know paying someone to keep quite while you are on the campaign trail doing your thing, it probably would have been best if he just admitted he had some questionable relationships got in front of the whole thing and moved on.  Liars never do stuff like that and people like Trump always feel they can slide by any law or not get caught.  If he gets impeach its because of his decisions and his alone.  People need to stop trying to be his savior.



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Ljink96 said:
I can't believe this is still going on. If it were Obama instead of Trump he'd be impeached yesterday. These crooks are putting party over country and its really sad. We have to have some freaking standards here.

Any other democratic president.

Sen. Lindsey Graham quotes:
"You don’t have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic"
"Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”

“You couldn’t live with yourself knowing that you were going to leave a perjuring judge on the bench,” 

"Ladies and gentlemen, as hard as it may be for the same reasons, cleanse this office.”

He tried to get Bill Clinton impeached for that affair he had with his secretary.
Just think what a affair shows of lack of morals!!!  thats enough to impeach a president apparently if your a democrat.

Now that Trump is actually found to have used his lawyer (and knowing) he was commiting a crime, to do so, Lindsey Graham is just silent.
Says alot about his caracter I think.



I noticed that people continue to bring up only the hush money to the women Trump slept with but thats not the only thing that he paid for that he did not report. There was some IT company he paid services for 50 grand I believe that was also not reported. Cohen lawyer came out and said there is some more trouble for Trump and its not just the hush money. I believe people who keep trying to be Trump savior will be tasked in the coming months as more crap comes out.

The biggest take away from the plea deal is not only the hush money and finance charges but the fact that Cohen is rolling like a snowball down a hill. This is the man that knows a lot of Trump secretes. If you believe this is only going to be about those charges people really not looking at the big picture. Also this could lead Manaford to try to cough up anything he might have to reduce his sentence. Once you get one big fish to sequel, the rest start to tumble because they want to get their deals in before the ship sinks. Add to the list with with Omarosa tapes and videos, no one knows what she has to collaborate on other details. No matter how you slice it, throwing Cohen out to the wolves is a defection someone like Trump could not afford to lose.

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 23 August 2018

JRPGfan said:
Ljink96 said:
I can't believe this is still going on. If it were Obama instead of Trump he'd be impeached yesterday. These crooks are putting party over country and its really sad. We have to have some freaking standards here.

Any other democratic president.

Sen. Lindsey Graham quotes:
"You don’t have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic"
"Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”

“You couldn’t live with yourself knowing that you were going to leave a perjuring judge on the bench,” 

"Ladies and gentlemen, as hard as it may be for the same reasons, cleanse this office.”

He tried to get Bill Clinton impeached for that affair he had with his secretary.
Just think what a affair shows of lack of morals!!!  thats enough to impeach a president apparently if your a democrat.

Now that Trump is actually found to have used his lawyer (and knowing) he was commiting a crime, to do so, Lindsey Graham is just silent.
Says alot about his caracter I think.

What we are going to see is a lot of people like we see in this thread say its not a criminal office to pay hush money to your affairs.  Yes, its campaign contributions but thats not a real crime etc etc.  All the while more stuff will start to leak out and Trump will try his smear campaign as he usually do.  What a lot of those people also do not understand that by Cohen admitting he committed a crime with the president.  Everything he did is no more attorney client privilege.  Any and all recordings, documents and papers you name it can be admissible in court.  Most of the defenders are only looking at the surface and trying to as the term goes "Save a whoe".  Things are about to get real deep for Trump and a lot of crap he got away with is about to hit the fan.  I am sure this will not dent his loyal base but the independents and others who wanted to escape Hillary will not be so forgiving.



Machiavellian said:
I noticed that people continue to bring up only the hush money to the women Trump slept with but thats not the only thing that he paid for that he did not report. There was some IT company he paid services for 50 grand I believe that was also not reported. Cohen lawyer came out and said there is some more trouble for Trump and its not just the hush money. I believe people who keep trying to be Trump savior will be tasked in the coming months as more crap comes out.

The biggest take away from the plea deal is not only the hush money and finance charges but the fact that Cohen is rolling like a snowball down a hill. This is the man that knows a lot of Trump secretes. If you believe this is only going to be about those charges people really not looking at the big picture. Also this could lead Manaford to try to caught up anything he might have. Once you get one big fish to sequel, the rest start to tumble because they want to get their deals in before the ship sinks. Couple that with Omarosa tapes and videos, no one knows what she has to collaborate on other details. No matter how you slice it, throwing Cohen out to the wolves is a defection someone like Trump could not afford to lose.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6E7sAUFAvg

 

Barbara D. Underwood (attorney general of new york) on behalf of new york, is sueing the trump family.

Apparently he has a foundation he uses with illegal conduct.... 
amoung others it "doesnt follow basic fiduciary obligations" or "impliments elementary corporate formalities required by law."


He basically has a "fake" charitable enterprise, that is used just to benefit himself & family.
This is where the hush money came from, which I guess is a improper use of such a foundation.

 

Edit:

Wow look at this:   https://youtu.be/V6E7sAUFAvg?t=1381

Michael Cohen supposedly made payments to hackers in europe (on behalf of the kremlin) against the Clinton Campagne!!!

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 23 August 2018

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Machiavellian said:

Saying that Trump has the right to do something and forgetting that not all actions do not lead to him getting canned is ignoring how the US system works.

Why did you cut off my comment just before I said exactly that?



NightlyPoe said:
Machiavellian said:

Saying that Trump has the right to do something and forgetting that not all actions do not lead to him getting canned is ignoring how the US system works.

Why did you cut off my comment just before I said exactly that?

Sorry if I did that, totally a mistake on my part, as I was only commenting on that line.  I do apologize for doing that.



JRPGfan said:
Ljink96 said:
I can't believe this is still going on. If it were Obama instead of Trump he'd be impeached yesterday. These crooks are putting party over country and its really sad. We have to have some freaking standards here.

Any other democratic president.

Sen. Lindsey Graham quotes:
"You don’t have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic"
"Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”

“You couldn’t live with yourself knowing that you were going to leave a perjuring judge on the bench,” 

"Ladies and gentlemen, as hard as it may be for the same reasons, cleanse this office.”

He tried to get Bill Clinton impeached for that affair he had with his secretary.
Just think what a affair shows of lack of morals!!!  thats enough to impeach a president apparently if your a democrat.

Now that Trump is actually found to have used his lawyer (and knowing) he was commiting a crime, to do so, Lindsey Graham is just silent.
Says alot about his caracter I think.

If that second video is true.  Well case closed.  Even the Republican party cannot close their eyes to that, no matter how many Trump supporters say otherwise.



Errorist76 said:
Locknuts said:
So they might finally have something on Trump (weak as it is). Well if Clinton can lose the Presidency for copping a bj from his secretary and lying about it, then Trump could potentially go too.

That would be 2 good presidents undone for ridiculous reasons, while Bush and Obama managed to run the USA almost into the ground between them and hardly anybody questioned them. Not to mention they were both trigger happy with the war machine.

Obama brought the USA up again after Bush ran it into the ground. What has Trump done that makes him better instead of alienating his country, splitting it, making the laughing stock of the world and making terrible decisions regarding security, world peace and the environment?

Trigger happy with the war machine? Did you forget about Trump‘s record budget, something space force ? Do You even hear yourself?

What happened to your old account btw?

I never had any other account. Same one as always.

And Obama only continued the poor policy decisions of Bush. I'm not American, so I don't play the whole Democrats vs Republicans games. I just call it like I see it.

And Trump's record budget? Every sensible person agrees that a strong military is important. Trump is yet to use his military in any meaningful capacity. Though I do disagree with him bombing that airbase in Syria. Even though he avoided any civilian casualties.

I think Trump's decisions regarding security and the environment have been very good so far. Other countries respect America more now than in a long time, even if their president looks and talks funny.



super_etecoon said:
Locknuts said:

I don't remember the USA ever not being in some kind of war under Obama. Obama was also keen on the use of drone strikes. Almost immediately after becoming president (3 days in I believe) he ordered strikes in Pakistan that killed hundred of civilians. Yes Bush started the big wars, but Obama failed to finish them and has blood on his hands too. 

Also, presidents can not be held responsible for economic failures or recovery for the most part. It's too complex. What I do believe though is that Obama's policies dented confidence in the economy and Trumps' salesman like talk is boosting confidence in the economy.

When I write that they ran the USA almost into the ground I mean by creating division among the populace, going into endless wars and simultaneously making poor policy decisions. It's not just economics.

I'm sorry.  I don't know how old you are, but 2008 (George W. Bush's time in office) was when the economic system collapsed.  This is much documented if you weren't there to experience it.  Obama's policies, including continuing the TARP funds started by Bush that supported the automobile and banking industry (rightly or wrongly) as well as many programs intended to get people working on road projects, bridge projects, as well as renewable energy infrrastructure helped keep the economy stay strong enough to survive long enough for American companies and workers to get the economy back into great shape.  Trump inherited this.  Please, please, do research on this.  You declare in your quote that you "believe."  Go beyond belief and do great research on the subject and return with support.  I don't want a salesman telling me that the lemon I'm going to buy runs like a champ when he knows full and well that it'll break down in 6 months.  

The world's financial system is complex beyond human comprehension, that's why I use the term 'believe'. It can't be understood completely but there are risk factors and things we know boost and hurt economic systems. 

My understanding is that the 2008 economic collapse was largely due to several previous government bailouts which made banks believe they were 'too big to fail'. Bush's government hesitated to pour funds into the banks when they needed it again causing an unnecessarily big crash (in that it could have been smaller the first few times).

Bush and Obama, instead of taking their medicine and letting the economy correct itself, borrowed beyond belief and have indebted America's children for generations, while letting the culprits (bankers) get off scott free. I 'believe' another, much bigger economic collapse is coming unless America can figure out a way to start chipping away at the $21 trillion in debt they owe. 

And Trump is a salesman. That's how it seems to me. He will talk up everything he does as the 'biggest', 'best' and 'greatest' regardless of whether that claim is grounded in reality. He will of course focus on accomplishments that are backed by data, but will make untrue claims if it sells his brand. The day to day economy would suggest that Americans are buying what he's selling. Companies are hiring, workers are working and the stock market is way up.