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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump's Personal Lawyer And Campaign Manager Both Going To Prison

EricHiggin said:
bowserthedog said:

Right but it's not a serious thing. Obama did it too and was fined.  It's not something you go to jail for or get impeached for.

In order to violate campaign finance law, what transpired must have been directly related to the campaign, and must only have been done for the sole purposes of the campaign. If there are any other non campaign related reasons why it might have been done, then it's not violating the law.

Yeah..  Legal experts are all over the map on this one. As it stands right now you're probably correct.  Basically, in order for it to count as a campaign expense, it would have to be something that was done for the sole purpose of benefiting the campaign. In this case you could make the argument that he paid these women off because he didn't want personal embarrassment or he didn't want his wife to find out for example. For example, Bill Clinton was famous for his $200 haircuts and of course, your appearance will benefit the campaign but something like that isn't considered a campaign expense but rather a personal expense. 

People are largely being fooled on this one because of the guilty plea. But Cohen pleading guilty doesn't mean it was a crime.  For example, there's a lot of cases that get overturned later on based on DNA evidence when a defended had been strongarmed into pleading guilty to a crime they had not committed. 



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Xxain said:
Gawd damn. What does mean for trump himself?

Nothing and neither have anything to do with the Russia investigation. Cohen paying off a pornstar with an NDA isn’t illegal, no campaign laws were broken. It’s all smoke an mirrors, the prosecutors are threatening these people with life in prison so they “spill the goods on Trump” for a plea deal like Cohen did. He can’t even get a trump pardon because NY state is going to hit  him again after the federal charges clear. In his eyes he has no choice but say what the prosecutors want or go to prison for life. He will probably go to prison regardless, no matter how sweet his plea deal was. It probably just won’t be life. Manafort will get a trump pardon for his 2005 tax fraud charges. 



boozehound said:
Xxain said:
Gawd damn. What does mean for trump himself?

Nothing and neither have anything to do with the Russia investigation. Cohen paying off a pornstar with an NDA isn’t illegal, no campaign laws were broken. It’s all smoke an mirrors, the prosecutors are threatening these people with life in prison so they “spill the goods on Trump” for a plea deal like Cohen did. He can’t even get a trump pardon because NY state is going to hit  him again after the federal charges clear. In his eyes he has no choice but say what the prosecutors want or go to prison for life. He will probably go to prison regardless, no matter how sweet his plea deal was. It probably just won’t be life. Manafort will get a trump pardon for his 2005 tax 

Before you make your claim that it has nothing to do with the Russian investigation, you better wait until we find out about that 50k paid to the EU IT company which Cohen also admitted to.  Also while you concentrate on dismissing the hush money issue, you are forgetting that now all the evidence collected from Cohen is now admissible.  I am willing to bet this is the least of information that Trump will have to deal with, especially since Cohen was covering his ass by keeping records and tapes of their interactions.  You guys are going to have a fun time dismissing everything that will be coming from here on out.  Best get read with the save a whoe Cape because you guys are in for a ride.



Machiavellian said:
boozehound said:

Nothing and neither have anything to do with the Russia investigation. Cohen paying off a pornstar with an NDA isn’t illegal, no campaign laws were broken. It’s all smoke an mirrors, the prosecutors are threatening these people with life in prison so they “spill the goods on Trump” for a plea deal like Cohen did. He can’t even get a trump pardon because NY state is going to hit  him again after the federal charges clear. In his eyes he has no choice but say what the prosecutors want or go to prison for life. He will probably go to prison regardless, no matter how sweet his plea deal was. It probably just won’t be life. Manafort will get a trump pardon for his 2005 tax 

Before you make your claim that it has nothing to do with the Russian investigation, you better wait until we find out about that 50k paid to the EU IT company which Cohen also admitted to.  Also while you concentrate on dismissing the hush money issue, you are forgetting that now all the evidence collected from Cohen is now admissible.  I am willing to bet this is the least of information that Trump will have to deal with, especially since Cohen was covering his ass by keeping records and tapes of their interactions.  You guys are going to have a fun time dismissing everything that will be coming from here on out.  Best get read with the save a whoe Cape because you guys are in for a ride.

You have fun chasing the dragon like you have been for over a year. Nothing has changed. Anything Cohen has had been fair game since they raided him based on the phony dossier of his meetings in Prague which he denies to this day. I don’t trust a word he says but I trust the dossier even less. There will be no trial, he won’t have to prove anything, he plead guilty to made up charges. The ride is over for him on a federal level, there is nothing more to dismiss except him as a person and his BAR license. The jerk who taped his clients and reporters lol. That’s your fun ride evidence? Sorry pal. 



Machiavellian said:
boozehound said:

Nothing and neither have anything to do with the Russia investigation. Cohen paying off a pornstar with an NDA isn’t illegal, no campaign laws were broken. It’s all smoke an mirrors, the prosecutors are threatening these people with life in prison so they “spill the goods on Trump” for a plea deal like Cohen did. He can’t even get a trump pardon because NY state is going to hit  him again after the federal charges clear. In his eyes he has no choice but say what the prosecutors want or go to prison for life. He will probably go to prison regardless, no matter how sweet his plea deal was. It probably just won’t be life. Manafort will get a trump pardon for his 2005 tax 

Before you make your claim that it has nothing to do with the Russian investigation, you better wait until we find out about that 50k paid to the EU IT company which Cohen also admitted to.  Also while you concentrate on dismissing the hush money issue, you are forgetting that now all the evidence collected from Cohen is now admissible.  I am willing to bet this is the least of information that Trump will have to deal with, especially since Cohen was covering his ass by keeping records and tapes of their interactions.  You guys are going to have a fun time dismissing everything that will be coming from here on out.  Best get read with the save a whoe Cape because you guys are in for a ride.

Won't be part of the ride because who would want to enter this theme park?...



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^circus side show



boozehound said:
Machiavellian said:

Before you make your claim that it has nothing to do with the Russian investigation, you better wait until we find out about that 50k paid to the EU IT company which Cohen also admitted to.  Also while you concentrate on dismissing the hush money issue, you are forgetting that now all the evidence collected from Cohen is now admissible.  I am willing to bet this is the least of information that Trump will have to deal with, especially since Cohen was covering his ass by keeping records and tapes of their interactions.  You guys are going to have a fun time dismissing everything that will be coming from here on out.  Best get read with the save a whoe Cape because you guys are in for a ride.

You have fun chasing the dragon like you have been for over a year. Nothing has changed. Anything Cohen has had been fair game since they raided him based on the phony dossier of his meetings in Prague which he denies to this day. I don’t trust a word he says but I trust the dossier even less. There will be no trial, he won’t have to prove anything, he plead guilty to made up charges. The ride is over for him on a federal level, there is nothing more to dismiss except him as a person and his BAR license. The jerk who taped his clients and reporters lol. That’s your fun ride evidence? Sorry pal. 

Lol, I am chasing nothing.  I am sitting here laughing as people continue to throw away their morals trying to apologize for a con man.  You only have to look at the man history to know exactly the type of person he is.  You only have to look at the present to see the type of idiot he is.  

 

Actually, things continue to be fair game as Trump continues to open his mouth without understanding the damage he does.  You can call Cohen whatever names you want.  You can view him as vile as you want but in the end if he has verified information on Trump with those tapes and records what you will not call him is a liar.  Another crook outting another crook.  It's no different from Gates outting Manafort.  You want to demonize Cohen while turning a blind eye to Trump corruption.  The fun will be you finding ways to continue looking for excuses for a con man until one day you will have to face that you were played.



Machiavellian said:
boozehound said:

You have fun chasing the dragon like you have been for over a year. Nothing has changed. Anything Cohen has had been fair game since they raided him based on the phony dossier of his meetings in Prague which he denies to this day. I don’t trust a word he says but I trust the dossier even less. There will be no trial, he won’t have to prove anything, he plead guilty to made up charges. The ride is over for him on a federal level, there is nothing more to dismiss except him as a person and his BAR license. The jerk who taped his clients and reporters lol. That’s your fun ride evidence? Sorry pal. 

Lol, I am chasing nothing.  I am sitting here laughing as people continue to throw away their morals trying to apologize for a con man.  You only have to look at the man history to know exactly the type of person he is.  You only have to look at the present to see the type of idiot he is.  

 

Actually, things continue to be fair game as Trump continues to open his mouth without understanding the damage he does.  You can call Cohen whatever names you want.  You can view him as vile as you want but in the end if he has verified information on Trump with those tapes and records what you will not call him is a liar.  Another crook outting another crook.  It's no different from Gates outting Manafort.  You want to demonize Cohen while turning a blind eye to Trump corruption.  The fun will be you finding ways to continue looking for excuses for a con man until one day you will have to face that you were played.

Says the guy who is championing Cohen as your hero, your “fixer” I should say lol. Stormy denials is nothing new, this “campaign fraud” angle is nothing new, it was stupid then. This stuff has already leaked, like the entire investigation. We have been on this ride lol. They have nothing but the plea deal they just influenced. It won’t be tried and won’t be proven, he’s a stepping stone. They said what they had to say through their fork lawyer tongue: guilty campaign fraud. That’s all people read and it’s wrong. It was wrong then and it is now. 

 

I’m not turning a blind eye to your lack of evidence. Innocent until proven guilty is American law, sorry. You can be Nostradamus all you want and tell me this secret smoking gun evidence that has magically not been leaked yet. Do that I will acknowledge your defense of that scumbag and recede my comment. I don’t have to prove that they don’t have any evidence of Russian collusion, they do that for me. You are the one dismissing known facts for hopes lol. I would hate to see a serious civil scuffle over Donald Trump. How dumb are we as a society? Let the retards stampede our constitution because they can’t wait 4 years to vote in somebody else? It violates their safe place, their sanctuary is under assault from authoritarian Hitler. Both sides are insufferable drags, but the anti-trumpists are are on another level, especially congressmen and the top levels of these agencies. It’s frankly treasonous how they defy the constitution they swore to protect. Wait the 4 years and vote him out, this by hook or crook Venezuelan angle is unacceptable and trashy. It’s bad law that sets bad precedent. 



bowserthedog said:
SpokenTruth said:

But violating campaign finance law is.

Right but it's not a serious thing. Obama did it too and was fined.  It's not something you go to jail for or get impeached for.

Its a federal crime...... how is that not a "serious thing" ?
Its one of the things Michael cohen is going to jail for..... something he did FOR TRUMP, at his direction.

 

also "but obama did it tooo" :

"Election law experts said that more minor violations are treated as regulatory or civil matters, while egregious and willful campaign finance violations are treated as criminal acts" -
Jane C. Timm (nbc news)

Obama's was treated as a minor civil matter, because of the nature of it (what amount, and how it happend ect).
The two cases are not the same at all, Trumps violantion is much worse, his is being treated as a criminal act.
 

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-cites-massive-obama-campaign-finance-violation-experts-say-cohen-n902921

 

 

Obama campagne finance violations (a week before he won, his campagne workers messed up):

missing filing deadlines (late to say I recieved some money as a donation)
reporting the wrong dates on donation (I mislabel something)

vs

Trump campagne finance violations (trump himself ordered his lawyer to do something unlawfull):

knowingly directed my lawyer to pay hushmoney, over the said amount allowed for, to kill a story that could have cost me the election.

 

They are 2 very differnt things.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 24 August 2018

bowserthedog said:
EricHiggin said:

In order to violate campaign finance law, what transpired must have been directly related to the campaign, and must only have been done for the sole purposes of the campaign. If there are any other non campaign related reasons why it might have been done, then it's not violating the law.

Yeah..  Legal experts are all over the map on this one. As it stands right now you're probably correct.  Basically, in order for it to count as a campaign expense, it would have to be something that was done for the sole purpose of benefiting the campaign. In this case you could make the argument that he paid these women off because he didn't want personal embarrassment or he didn't want his wife to find out for example. For example, Bill Clinton was famous for his $200 haircuts and of course, your appearance will benefit the campaign but something like that isn't considered a campaign expense but rather a personal expense. 

People are largely being fooled on this one because of the guilty plea. But Cohen pleading guilty doesn't mean it was a crime.  For example, there's a lot of cases that get overturned later on based on DNA evidence when a defended had been strongarmed into pleading guilty to a crime they had not committed. 

He ll get jail time for it..... thats "crime" enough for me.

I guess trumps best defense then will be "I didnt want my wife knowing about it, I didnt care if I lost the election for president".
And people will have to believe what they want, Trump is a pathological Liar though, its hard to take him at his word.