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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft are finally showing the Power of the Cloud

Pemalite on 04 March 2018
Errorist76 said:

Only gullible fanboys believe this tech can do complex physics calculations in real-time.

What makes you think it needs to be done in real time?
Many effects are not actually rendered in real time, but are done in successive passes.



Errorist76 said:

Also...what does an aging character have to do with the cloud? The author had smoked some good stuff for sure.

There is certainly allot of fluff in the article.

Conina said:

So what happens if you throttle the internet bandwith while playing? Are the waves standing still at some point?

Is there any proof that all the wave physics are calculated on the game servers and not locally on the console or PC?

How much of the data traffic is for the wave calculations?

Was the aging of characters in Fable 1 & 2 also only possible due to the power of the cloud?

Pretty sure it's not that much different from Battlefield 4 actually.

So if you throttle your bandwidth... Same kind of thing will happen to you in Sea of Thieves as it does in Battlefield 4.






caffeinade said:

I would imagine they are just sending height-maps, so the servers can synchronise and simulate the waves.
Leaving the client to tessellate and interpolate as required.
The bandwidth required shouldn't be too high for such a solution.

You are probably right in your assumption to a degree.



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Masked_Muchaco on 04 March 2018

If this game really use the power of the cloud, wouldn't you think Microsoft would say so, you know, to reassure fans about it potential?



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endimion on 05 March 2018
Errorist76 said:
Azzanation said:

For one i am not talking about the aging mechanic so let's make that clear.

Do you have proof that the Crackdown 3 demo is fake and that the cloud processing doesnt work?

Also regardless if Sea of Thieves uses the Cloud for its water effects does not take away the brilliance that Rare has achieved with there water in there game.

 

The water truly looks amazing...but that’s not related to The Cloud. 

Did you see any destruction in the last Crackdown trailer? We all know they used this locally PC calculated demo a few years back in order to make people believe the underpowered X1 would suddenly become more powerful. It was a marketing tool, nothing more.

Even if they did the calculation in the cloud, it would only work in a controlled, possibly lad-free environment. It’s a whole different story in the WWW with half the people not having a decent internet connection with drop outs, lag, bad ping times, low bandwidth etc. Every tech savvy person will tell you this is not going to work as shown in that demo in real life environments and net realities, and you’ll see once the game will (hopefully) be released later this year.

Feel free to quote me in your sig if I’m wrong.

cloud based gaming is right around the corner... Regardless of xbox or Microsoft or the shitty internet connection a lot of people have... Thinking otherwise is like thinking smartphone was a fade....

 

 

it's like VR or wide angle UHD gaming, maybe 1% of the world computers are capable of handling quality VR even fewer have all the equipment and the room to make it stellar... Same with 3 screens UHD HDR10 and throw in a 5.4.2 atmos system and you fall under 0.1% yet it DOES exist... I haven't had a ping over 25ms on a very bad day in ages and an DL and UL speed under 15mbps and UL usually over 30 and DL over 50...

 

 

Microsoft happen to have the second largest server banks in the world and one of the most spread out around the world... An azure system optimized for gaming.... I guarantee you cloud gaming is possible and viable just maybe not for you and 99% of the world but that's a moot point... An to be frank I'm 100% sure there are more people that have the equipment for descent cloud gaming today than for VR or UHD 3screens gaming...

 

 

 

Xbox fans might have been gullible but thinking it's impossible even today is just as laughable...

 



drkohler on 05 March 2018
SvennoJ said:
Does the water lag when you jump in it? It should be clearly visible if all the water calculations are done in the cloud. Jump in, delayed splash, cloud responsible. Jump in, instant splash, more bollocks.

Sending a mesh of the waves and ripples is a lot of data, It basically is an entire terrain mesh that needs to be updated in real time.

What I can believe is that is synchronizes the seed for the waves so all players have the same wave and weather pattern. That's nothing new, same as having synchronized day/night cycle in multiplayer games. Yet we don't go touting the cloud for doing the light calculations :)

And of course it needs to synchronize the wave pattern as how else can you fight other ships, they need to be at the same height on both consoles. Yet there are far simpler ways to do that than calculate wave physics in the cloud. Dumbest thing I've read in a while.

Isn't this all too complex? I don't see any reason at all to synchronize anything.

They way I'd do it is

a) Occasionally send a byte ("Weather condition") over the net that says "It's stormy", "It's dead sea", etc. Let each console handle the weather accordingly.

b) In combat, send a byte/word for each bullet shot ("Damage condition") from the attacker that says "This will miss", "This will hit around there with % damage". Let the victim act on this byte/word accordingly.

Particularly with b), lag isn't that big a problem at all. It also doesn't matter what each of the two ships in combat is actually doing on each console at the very moment of firing, the guy who fires calls the shots (in every sense of the word).



reviniente on 05 March 2018
kirby007 said:
theprof00 said:
This is the one meme that gets funnier as time goes on

So a working concept is being regarded as memery these days? 

It is, if you dislike the company behind the technology.



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ArchangelMadzz on 05 March 2018

Battlefield did the waves being the same thing in 2013. Which worked on PS4 as well..



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DonFerrari on 05 March 2018

So the cloud now is the same as a server for MMO??? Haven't seem anything regarding making Xbox 8x more powerful on this report.



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Rayban99 on 05 March 2018
DonFerrari said:
So the cloud now is the same as a server for MMO??? Haven't seem anything regarding making Xbox 8x more powerful on this report.

The cloud is just a bunch of massive server farms.  You could use the hardware to host an mmo if you wanted.



Pemalite on 05 March 2018
ArchangelMadzz said:
Battlefield did the waves being the same thing in 2013. Which worked on PS4 as well..

The "Cloud" isn't platform exclusive. You just need an internet connection.
Even the Dreamcast could have theoretically leveraged it.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

SvennoJ on 05 March 2018
drkohler said:
SvennoJ said:
Does the water lag when you jump in it? It should be clearly visible if all the water calculations are done in the cloud. Jump in, delayed splash, cloud responsible. Jump in, instant splash, more bollocks.

Sending a mesh of the waves and ripples is a lot of data, It basically is an entire terrain mesh that needs to be updated in real time.

What I can believe is that is synchronizes the seed for the waves so all players have the same wave and weather pattern. That's nothing new, same as having synchronized day/night cycle in multiplayer games. Yet we don't go touting the cloud for doing the light calculations :)

And of course it needs to synchronize the wave pattern as how else can you fight other ships, they need to be at the same height on both consoles. Yet there are far simpler ways to do that than calculate wave physics in the cloud. Dumbest thing I've read in a while.

Isn't this all too complex? I don't see any reason at all to synchronize anything.

They way I'd do it is

a) Occasionally send a byte ("Weather condition") over the net that says "It's stormy", "It's dead sea", etc. Let each console handle the weather accordingly.

b) In combat, send a byte/word for each bullet shot ("Damage condition") from the attacker that says "This will miss", "This will hit around there with % damage". Let the victim act on this byte/word accordingly.

Particularly with b), lag isn't that big a problem at all. It also doesn't matter what each of the two ships in combat is actually doing on each console at the very moment of firing, the guy who fires calls the shots (in every sense of the word).

The boats respond to the waves, go up and down, which needs to be the exact same on all the clients.

This is easy to do with a seed to generate waves with. The same as one seed can create the exact same procedurally generated complex minecraft world. All the rest is to tell each client where the ships are to add some extra waves on top, no need for complex interactions, procedurally generated wave patterns with likely pre calculated interference patterns is enough.

The cloud can direct the weather and conditions simply by telling each client to transition to a different seed at a specific time. You want to keep interactions being client and server as little and efficient as possible. Doing complex wave physics server side and sending a complete height map with speed vectors for all the nodes is not efficient.