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Forums - Politics Discussion - The sjw review by eurogamer on Kingdom Come: Deliverance

Aeolus451 said:
JWeinCom said:

The part you left out was absurd in your opinion... so you left it out... when your whole point was that the review was absurd... Something's not adding up.

 I said that the review was a sjw review. It's in the title. You're not that good at playing detective. The part I left out is something that I considered absurd.  How you're conflating sjw and absurd is the only thing not adding up.  Hmm I'll take that back. I guess I can see how you would confuse those words considering that sjws say alot of absurd crap.

"Just to clarify this game is historically accurate and contains no fantasy elements. It takes place at 1403 in the kingdom of Bohemia. To be honest, the review is alright until you get to the end of where this silly crap is brought up."

You specifically referred to the part you were quoting as "this silly crap".  So I think that my inference skills are pretty much on point when I say that your point was that it was absurd.

When you're referring to the portion your quoting as "silly crap" and then leave out part because it's absurd that kind of reeks of bullshit.   And if you cut out the absurd part, are you saying that the part you left in is not absurd?  That it's a reasonable argument?

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 22 February 2018

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JWeinCom said:
Aeolus451 said:

 I said that the review was a sjw review. It's in the title. You're not that good at playing detective. The part I left out is something that I considered absurd.  How you're conflating sjw and absurd is the only thing not adding up.  Hmm I'll take that back. I guess I can see how you would confuse those words considering that sjws say alot of absurd crap.

"Just to clarify this game is historically accurate and contains no fantasy elements. It takes place at 1403 in the kingdom of Bohemia. To be honest, the review is alright until you get to the end of where this silly crap is brought up."

You specifically referred to the part you were quoting as "this silly crap".  So I think that my inference skills are pretty much on point when I say that your point was that it was absurd.

When you're referring to the portion your quoting as "silly crap" and then leave out part because it's absurd that kind of reeks of bullshit.   And if you cut out the absurd part, are you saying that the part you left in is not absurd?  That it's a reasonable argument?

For fuck's sake, you're really reaching for anything at this point. 😹



estebxx said:

Oh ffs... yeah i wasted a whole 2 minutes typing that comment, what a waste... except its not because i just wanted to get it out of my chest, (thats literally all i wanted to do nothing else) and it felt pretty great, (especially since this is the first time ive ever said anything about the subject), and why for the love of god do you think that i am in any sort of way pretending that they will go away just because of my comment, what kind of logic is that? do you believe i am THAT naive and or stupid as to pretend that they will go away because of my comment? that is so ridiculous its actually kind of amazing.

You wanna know what is a real waste of time? this back and forth between you and me, at least i got some relief from finally expressing my opinion on the subject,  this however got me nothing other than wasting my time.

My comments weren't targeting you specifically. Just the general political rhetoric between the left vs right.
So feel free to go have a nap or something.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Aeolus451 said:
JWeinCom said:

"Just to clarify this game is historically accurate and contains no fantasy elements. It takes place at 1403 in the kingdom of Bohemia. To be honest, the review is alright until you get to the end of where this silly crap is brought up."

You specifically referred to the part you were quoting as "this silly crap".  So I think that my inference skills are pretty much on point when I say that your point was that it was absurd.

When you're referring to the portion your quoting as "silly crap" and then leave out part because it's absurd that kind of reeks of bullshit.   And if you cut out the absurd part, are you saying that the part you left in is not absurd?  That it's a reasonable argument?

For fuck's sake, you're really reaching for anything at this point. 😹

I am indeed reaching for any sort of logic behind what you're saying.  It's very difficult.  Feel free to assist me by clarifying and answering questions.  I am particularly interested in the distinction between what is absurd and what is silly crap.  

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 22 February 2018

JWeinCom said:
Aeolus451 said:

For fuck's sake, you're really reaching for anything at this point. 😹

So... when you said it was silly crap, you were not trying to say it was absurd?  Just looking for clarity here.  

Again, my claim is that review is a sjw review. That's my whole point and you're not refuting it by trying to argue over something absurd. 😱

If you're not actually gonna present a decent argument then I'm not gonna pay you any more of my attention because it's a waste of my time.



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Aeolus451 said:
JWeinCom said:

So... when you said it was silly crap, you were not trying to say it was absurd?  Just looking for clarity here.  

Again, my claim is that review is a sjw review. That's my whole point and you're not refuting it by trying to argue over something absurd. 😱

If you're not actually gonna present a decent argument then I'm not gonna pay you any more of my attention because it's a waste of my time

I'm not refuting your point that it's a sjw review because I really don't care.  I do care that you are presenting the information in, as far as I can see, a dishonest fashion.  I'm trying to get a coherent answer as to why you chose to cut the quote as you did.


You claimed you omitted a part of the quote because it was absurd.  You also referred to the part you did include as silly crap.  Your words.

So, I'm trying to understand why, when you were claiming that what you were posting was silly crap, you chose to omit a part for being absurd, which to me seems essentially synonymous with silly crap.  It's a pretty simple question.  Your unwillingness to answer it makes me think that isn't actually the reason you took out that part.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 22 February 2018

DonFerrari said:
SuperNova said:

Yes?

What I'm saying is they clearly didn't want to make diversity a priority, or they would have chosen a diffrent 16 square km piece of european land. And AGAIN it's fine that they didn't.

If they wanted to tell a diverse historically accurate story, the options are there. They didin't take these options, because it didin't fit with what they wanted to do. That's ok. It has however all to do with design decisions and very little with historical accuracy.

So we are in agreement in so far as I also don't think this debate is about historical accuracy. I'm also not trying to impose anything. The only thing I am saying is that instead of using an excuse of historical accuracy 'We didn't want to' should be sufficient enough explanation.

One aside about the black death point: European cultural contact and trade with Arabs was well established by the time and it was by no means only indirect and by invasion. Heck there was a sizable enough Arab population in Spain that the Spanish King (who was technically austrian) had to establish diplomatic relationships with them, since they were the former ruling class.

Nope, again. The way it is (since it would be a very very very specific scenario for it to be historically right, but still have a female protagonist or black NPC) is that they would have to force a situation where that would be accurate... but if someone wants to tell a story using black people it would be more practical to use something from Africa history books.

You fail to see it isn't an excuse, it was a decision to portray a period.

Since you ignored my last reply to you, this is the last one I'm going to give you.

They would not have had to force anything. The historical context is there, they would just have to set their game accordingly. They didn't. Because it wasn't a priority. Those points arent really up to debate.

Games don't just 'happen'. Like you said yourself, there's concious decision making behind all of this. They made the game they wanted to make.

You're failing to see that there's tangible proof that these people existed in Europe at the time. Hence why they could be included in a 'historically accurate' game about the period. By setting it in an area that had very little contact to outside influences, the devs made a concious decision. Maybe they just really wanted to set it there, because they like the area. That does not make them racist or anything, but it does mean that the aerial setting of their game was more important to them than having diversity. See? Decision making.

Pretending like there's anything else going on here is just dishonest and would probably also make for a bad game.  They have every right to make this decision. There's no need to hide behind a flimsy argument.

Lastly, we tell stories about extraordinary people because they are interesting. That's how most of all storytelling works, especially hero stories. A game can only benefit from having an interesting cast of characters that face unique challenges.



Even if there were a few non-Caucasians at that time period, the inclusion of them would have to be done in a similar manner as in Battlefield 1, where the portrayal of an overwhelming minority is shown.

A dev can opt to portray a minority, but it definitely shouldn't be required of them.



I don't agree with everything in the review but the politics/ideology behind a game is something we should certainly critique and think about. If the creator's earnestly aren't doing so, it just means the aren't giving their art form the respect I think it deserves.



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JWeinCom said:
DonFerrari said:

not out of context, the context of the OP is the same from the review.

And even the full quote makes nothing... it just say that there were some places and events in europe that had participation of black people and that "perhaps in that specific area there may have been one that stayed overnight". The justification is total bullocks.

 

Yes, it is taken out of context. Because, the first part of the historian's quote explains why specifically in that area there may have been different ethnic groups.  The first half explains that because the town was located on a popular trade route, it is reasonable that there may have been people from other cultures and locales staying there.   

As some guy who's actually from Bohemia commented on EG - town is not on that route, route went north of that region. That historian is really talking out of his ass and obviously knows very little about Central Europe...and EG is well known for their SJW crap, especially to boost their traffic, so let's not pretend that this is anything but that.