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The success of the 3DS has vindicated Gunpei Yokoi and the Virtual Boy

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Mandalore76 said:

What exactly in my opinion pieces are Flamebait?

I have never tried to label the Wii U as a bright spot in Nintendo history.  My thread on the evolutionary path of the GameCube to Switch noted the Wii U's form function as a step (the final step) on the path to the successful Switch.  Did I enjoy my Wii U?  Yes, I did.  I got use and enjoyment out of it from launch day through 2017.  I've used it more sparingly since the Switch came out, but even recently I am still playing my backlog on it from time to time.  But, I have never denied that it was a commercial flop.  I don't know how you can look at the design of the Wii U's gamepad and the Nintendo Switch and not see the similarity and deny that the former was a step in the latter's direction though.  

Did I enjoy my 3DS?  Yes.  Like the Wii U, I got both use and enjoyment out of it throughout it's lifespan.  I can think the device was a success without somehow trying to twist history.  The rise of mobile gaming was going to impact the sales of whatever device Nintendo put out into the handheld market.  It certainly wasn't going to be able to come close to, let alone match, the 153 million sales of the DS.  If the 3DS was a flop though, it would never have sold 70 million units and continue to be selling today.  Consumers don't just go ahead and buy whatever device has the Nintendo logo on it, price cut or no.  The Virtual Boy is indicative of that.  What I specifically said, which maybe you glossed over, was that the 3DS is nearing Gameboy Advance level sales.  Considering the climate of the handheld market, that's not a flop in my book.  Sony's handheld sales dropped by 80% this gen.  The 3DS was able to limit Nintendo's drop to about 54% from a much higher predecessor.  So, yes, I think 70 million sales and counting, and being currently the 11th highest selling dedicated gaming platform is a success.

Easy. The Gamepad was about having two independent screens and Wii U was planned to be about at least three independent screens. Nintendo's intention was to sell Gamepads separately, but that never became a reality because they had so much trouble to sell the one Gamepad that came with the console. The Gamepad's purpose is very different from Switch's purpose, that's why Switch isn't an evolution of Wii U or "Wii U done right."

Considering what Switch is, it's safe to say that Nintendo identified the Wii U direction as a dead end, just like 3D which didn't carry over to Switch either.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

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RolStoppable said:
Johnw1104 said:

...Flamebait? All he said was he appreciates the 3D of the 3DS (which I did as well whenever a game opted to actually take advantage of it) and that it vindicates Gunpei's original vision for the Virtual Boy. That's an opinion, not flamebait lol

The 3DS wasn't some outrageous success like the DS, but in an era when people wondered if handheld gaming would persist at all it still managed to sell quite well, especially when compared with its only contemporary competition. With the explosion of the mobile market this was easily the most difficult environment Nintendo ever released a handheld into, so to still approach Gameboy Advanced numbers (~70 million to ~80 million) is no small feat, and it certainly does not belong in the same breath as the undeniable sales failure that was the Wii U.

I would not say that any of this vindicates the "Virtual Boy" that was actually released, as that was a flawed product from the start. It does, to some extent, show that Gunpei's original vision for the Virtual Boy was quite impressive, and if there's a criticism I have to lob at him it's that he ought to have recognized earlier in development that such a vision would be too expensive to achieve with the technology of the time. "Vindication" is a strong word, then, but one can certainly better understand his thinking with the benefit of retrospect.

Yes, flamebait. The OP is basically presenting an argument that is as credible as Donald Trump's claim that global warming doesn't really exist and is an invention of China.

Any success that can be attributed to the 3DS is in spite of 3D. There's the early price cut that resulted in Nintendo posting their first fiscal year loss since they had entered the video game business. There's the 2DS which was not planned and only exists because the market's rejection of 3D was so strong that Nintendo became convinced that such a desperate move is necessary to stabilize the platform. There's the New 2DS XL which gave consumers finally a fair choice between 3DS and 2DS, because the initial 2DS did not have a clamshell design; and what do we see consumers choosing? They buy the New 2DS XL in higher numbers than the 3DS models now. 

And finally, there's Switch. If 3D was a success like the OP wants you to believe, then why is it non-existent in Switch? If 3D was a selling point, then it should have become standard and Switch should be floundering for not having it; instead Switch flies off the shelves, showing how unnecessary and unwanted 3D was. Switch also casts major doubt on the belief that mobile was killing handheld gaming. I never believed it because touchscreen inputs are so limited that they in turn greatly limit the variety of games. But those who did believe it and probably still believe it... they should really ask themselves if it isn't more probable that self-inflicted damage by Nintendo was a much bigger cause of the decline from DS to 3DS.

As for the Virtual Boy, the story is that Yokoi was opposed to releasing it in the state that it was. I've touched on this in my first post in this thread.

A 3D slider would actually be a nice feature on the Switch in handheld play.  But, it would have pushed the device past a $299 price point, which would have been very bad for business.  And ALL of the software would have to be designed as compatible with that feature.  That wasn't going to happen.

A fair amount of the 153 million people who bought a DS prefer those "limited" games that can be found in the mobile market.  Unless the Nintendo Switch sells over 150 million units, the mobile market did take that chunk of people away from handheld, and they aren't coming back.



Mandalore76 said:

A 3D slider would actually be a nice feature on the Switch in handheld play.  But, it would have pushed the device past a $299 price point, which would have been very bad for business.  And ALL of the software would have to be designed as compatible with that feature.  That wasn't going to happen.

A fair amount of the 153 million people who bought a DS prefer those "limited" games that can be found in the mobile market.  Unless the Nintendo Switch sells over 150 million units, the mobile market did take that chunk of people away from handheld, and they aren't coming back.

Increasing the price point is only a mistake if it's due to a feature that does not qualify as a selling point. Since 3D has proven itself so clearly as a burden, its exclusion from Switch was a no-brainer. This is about the premise of your thread: Your claim is that the sales numbers of the 3DS prove that 3D was a good vision, forward-thinking or whatever other positive description you can come up with. But all of the evidence that stems from 3DS sales numbers points to 3D being a great liability. Hence why I say that the 3DS's ultimately solid lifetime sales are not because of 3D, but in spite of 3D.

Switch doesn't need to sell DS numbers to prove that "mobile killing handheld" is untrue. At 100m Switch consoles sold it will already be undeniably that Nintendo self-inflicted damage on their handheld market with the 3D feature of the 3DS. At 125m Switch consoles sold it will be undeniable that the main culprit for Nintendo's decline was Nintendo themselves. At 150m it merely means that "mobile is killing handheld" has little to no ground to stand on anymore, so the argument could be expected to simply die off.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

RolStoppable said:
Mandalore76 said:

A 3D slider would actually be a nice feature on the Switch in handheld play.  But, it would have pushed the device past a $299 price point, which would have been very bad for business.  And ALL of the software would have to be designed as compatible with that feature.  That wasn't going to happen.

A fair amount of the 153 million people who bought a DS prefer those "limited" games that can be found in the mobile market.  Unless the Nintendo Switch sells over 150 million units, the mobile market did take that chunk of people away from handheld, and they aren't coming back.

Increasing the price point is only a mistake if it's due to a feature that does not qualify as a selling point. Since 3D has proven itself so clearly as a burden, its exclusion from Switch was a no-brainer. This is about the premise of your thread: Your claim is that the sales numbers of the 3DS prove that 3D was a good vision, forward-thinking or whatever other positive description you can come up with. But all of the evidence that stems from 3DS sales numbers points to 3D being a great liability. Hence why I say that the 3DS's ultimately solid lifetime sales are not because of 3D, but in spite of 3D.

Switch doesn't need to sell DS numbers to prove that "mobile killing handheld" is untrue. At 100m Switch consoles sold it will already be undeniably that Nintendo self-inflicted damage on their handheld market with the 3D feature of the 3DS. At 125m Switch consoles sold it will be undeniable that the main culprit for Nintendo's decline was Nintendo themselves. At 150m it merely means that "mobile is killing handheld" has little to no ground to stand on anymore, so the argument could be expected to simply die off.

DVD playback was considered a feature of 6th gen consoles.  The Panasonic GameCube, which could play DVD's sold worse than the standard GameCube which couldn't play DVD's.  The higher price point created a negative against what was a desirable feature at the time.



Mandalore76 said:

DVD playback was considered a feature of 6th gen consoles.  The Panasonic GameCube, which could play DVD's sold worse than the standard GameCube which couldn't play DVD's.  The higher price point created a negative against what was a desirable feature at the time.

You know what it really means when an additional SKU doesn't get released outside of Japan? That the whole "DVD is super important" mantra was blown way out of proportion. It's also something that Sony had to learn the hard way because they drank their own kool-aid. Based on the premise that DVD was important, they included the next format, Blu-ray, in the PS3. It cost them dearly because it turned out that people buy video game consoles to play video games. Or consider the Wii which did forego to play movie discs of any kind; it wrecked its competition. Or consider how few people paid for the DVD functionality of the original Xbox.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

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I just logged in my account after months to say thank you for taking the time to write this, i could say many things but im not in the mood, just thank you very much



Wonderswan redeemed him. It was an awesome system and fairly successful in Japan. It got all the Final Fantasy ports when Square hated Nintendo.



Mandalore76 said:

A fair amount of the 153 million people who bought a DS prefer those "limited" games that can be found in the mobile market.  Unless the Nintendo Switch sells over 150 million units, the mobile market did take that chunk of people away from handheld, and they aren't coming back.

Excellent point! The Brain Age, Nintendogs, and Cooking Mama type games are what catapulted the DS to that insanely high lifetime sales figure. Sure the Pokemons, Marios, etc; assisted in that but a huge chunk of DS core demo moved on to Angry Birds, Candy Crush, Pet Rescue, Bakery Story etc; 

Which is why I always feel it's a little unfair to compare the DS and 3DS sales figures. 3DS sales figures arent too far off GBA and hasn't had the luxury of more than a decade on the market with a phenomenon (Pokemon) occur deep into its life cycle to help catapult sales like the GB. 



Mandalore76 said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

Agreed. It can fester down there together with waggle and motion controls.

Without that, we wouldn't have immersive VR today.

Yeah.. that only 2% of PS4 owners even own....



PortisheadBiscuit said:
Mandalore76 said:

A fair amount of the 153 million people who bought a DS prefer those "limited" games that can be found in the mobile market.  Unless the Nintendo Switch sells over 150 million units, the mobile market did take that chunk of people away from handheld, and they aren't coming back.

Excellent point! The Brain Age, Nintendogs, and Cooking Mama type games are what catapulted the DS to that insanely high lifetime sales figure. Sure the Pokemons, Marios, etc; assisted in that but a huge chunk of DS core demo moved on to Angry Birds, Candy Crush, Pet Rescue, Bakery Story etc; 

Which is why I always feel it's a little unfair to compare the DS and 3DS sales figures. 3DS sales figures arent too far off GBA and hasn't had the luxury of more than a decade on the market with a phenomenon (Pokemon) occur deep into its life cycle to help catapult sales like the GB. 

The DS was once in a lifetime console for Nintendo I believe. It was ahead of his time, popularized touch screen gaming had a lot of innovative and simple games that are now on  mobile.3DS is going to end with a honourable score , competing with smartphone and much better but much more expansive games. I do hope Nintendo continue to support the 3DS 1 or 2 more years until they release a successor. There are still a market for pur handheld.

The 3D did not help the 3DS, let's be honest. And Gunpei Yokoi did not leave because of the Virtual boy failure.