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Forums - Gaming Discussion - If Sony makes a "Playstation Switch" could it succeed?

 

Could Sony make a successful Switch ?

Yes 25 14.37%
 
No 83 47.70%
 
Depends on many things 62 35.63%
 
see results 4 2.30%
 
Total:174
KBG29 said:

That is they way all software is going. Games can scale from as lower, or lower than 360p/30fps, all the way to 8K/60fps or higher. Every modern game engine is built for scalability, even Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony 1st party tools and engines are built this way. The engines and tool sets are built to develope titles across X86, ARM, Power PC and GeForce, Radeon, Adreno with 2GB of RAM or 20GB, with HDD or SSD, with Cartriges or Discs, and thousands, and thousands of other variations of hardware. The days of super custom hardware, and crazy to the metal development techniques are over.

Scalability within any given Platform, especially if all devices are built around the same architecture, is extreamly simple in the context of game development. That is why having a Watch, a Phone, and Handheld, a Tablet, a Car Audio Deck, a Speaker, a Console, a Computer, a TV, and countless other items in an ecosystem is becoming a reality. 

Citations needed. I have used first party tools and engines from MS, Nintendo and Sony. I was also on a team that ported a PS3 game to the Vita. We had specialists from Sony that actually were part of the design team of the Vita come in and assist on the project because we were struggling to get the game to run at more than 4 fps.

These statements directly contradict my own personal experience.



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KBG29 said: 

It is really hard to say what the best path is hardwarewise. Do they stick to the PS4 tech? Do they release PS5/PS5 Mobile? Do they Stick with X86? Do they switch everything to ARM? Do they split it X86 at Home, and ARM on the go? Every way has advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I think sticking to either X86 or ARM, and have a completely unified and scaled ecosystem is the best way to go. Since they have just spent 5+ years building around X86, I rather see them stick with X86 as opposed to rebuilding from the ground up again. Really it is going to come down to the personal preference of whoever the lead architect. I would hope the same Tech Designer and OS Designer over look all future projects to make things a unified and effecient as possible.

The issue I have with not offering a Phone version of any future handheld, is the reaction to the Vita. The number one reason people I have talked to did not pick up the Vita was the lack of native calling and text. I think they would be in a similar position with any future portable. Having the entire PlayStation catalogue available going forward would definitly help things, but I can still see people saying, well it would be nice if I could use it as phone, but I just can't justify carrying around two devices, or I can't justify portable game player when I already have my phone. 

To this day I have people come up to me when I am browsing the web, watching videos, streaming music, or playing online on the Vita, and ask me how I am doing it. Some people ask if I am teathered to my phone, others ask if I get wifi (when there is no wifi around), and the rest just ask, how are you do that. When I tell people it has 3G, their face always lights up, and the next question is always, can you make calls on it.

In the beggining I didn't know about Skype, so for well over a year I always said no. Then when found out about Skype the 3G Model was long discontinued. 

At first I got the responses above. After I learned about Skype many people were asking how much it cost, and what provider it was on, just to be let down when I had to tell them it was discountinued. To which they would ask why, and claim they would much rather have something like the Vita than whatever current iPhone or Android device they had. Now I get the same questions, and when I tell people I used to be able to make calls on it, they are dumbfoundedas to why that would ever go away. 

Even this year I have had people come up to me ask these questions, get these answer, ask why, and pull out their Phone and say, I would much rather have something like that than this. Even with the limitations, and the lack of apps. 

As someone who has carried around the Vita for almost 6 years now, I know what my friends and family want if they were ever to buy another portable PlayStation. I have been to half the states in the US, I have been over seas, and I know what the general feeling is, from what has to be in the thousands of co-workers and random people that have come up to me through the years in air ports, resteraunts, waiting rooms, and every other random place you can imagine. People want a Portable PlayStation that they can make phone calls on, first and foremost, without that, their is next to no interest.

You know what the other two major questions are?

Question 2: Can you play online multiplayer on that?

Answer: With Wifi or teathering to your phone. 

Typical Response: Awe that sucks, you should be able to play on the mobile connection. I would get one if you could play (insert online multiplayer game) over 4G/LTE/Mobile or whatever word they use.

Question 3: Can you hook that up to a TV and play with a controller?

Answer: No, but they made a seperate device to do that.

Typical Response: How lame, you should be able watch and play stuff on a TV or Monitor. That would be cool then.

I don't necessarily disagree with the handheld having phone options in it, even if there needs to be a base and 'Pro' model, with and without. The question is what price would PS charge for an all in one device like that, and will people pay whatever that price is? Switch is $300 already, plus PS may not want to price their dedicated phones based on the 'Pro' handheld. Since they didn't add 4k BD to PS4 or Pro, it makes me think they wouldn't want to do it with the handheld. That would mean having a dedicated PS phone, and that just get's extremely complicated based on the path they seem to be on. Not impossible, just way too many possibilities and what if's when the phone comes into play.

If it were really going to happen, I would say make it a PS5 product, BC or not. If PS could design the handheld similar to the 3DS, where the screen flips up, but also comes apart and can be used as just a phone, but when you attach it to the controller half, it becomes a handheld, plus a dock that the handheld plugs into for TV with DS4/5, and even a separate boost dock maybe for checkerboard/true 4k. That way the controller portion has x86 and just uses the phone as a display, and the phone is ARM but only plays typical phone games on it's own. Controller half would also have it's own battery. PS games could only be played in handheld mode or docked. The base model would basically have a dummy phone that was just a screen, and the 'Pro' model would have a full fledged phone. Maybe you can take the phone/screen off, and use it to play with a friend like Switch? The screen may be a little small for that though. Something like this, where phone and handheld are merged, because I just don't see a gaming phone on it's own taking off. This or a PS Switch in a 'Pro' model that has full phone functionality. I just don't know how many people would want to carry around something as large as a Switch all day for normal everyday communication, plus the more than likely constant charging. 

A lot of ways they could go, but I see the Switch type device being only somewhat likely. The phone itself, very unlikely. A phone/handheld hybrid? Maybe, just maybe.



EricHiggin said:
KBG29 said: 

It is really hard to say what the best path is hardwarewise. Do they stick to the PS4 tech? Do they release PS5/PS5 Mobile? Do they Stick with X86? Do they switch everything to ARM? Do they split it X86 at Home, and ARM on the go? Every way has advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I think sticking to either X86 or ARM, and have a completely unified and scaled ecosystem is the best way to go. Since they have just spent 5+ years building around X86, I rather see them stick with X86 as opposed to rebuilding from the ground up again. Really it is going to come down to the personal preference of whoever the lead architect. I would hope the same Tech Designer and OS Designer over look all future projects to make things a unified and effecient as possible.

The issue I have with not offering a Phone version of any future handheld, is the reaction to the Vita. The number one reason people I have talked to did not pick up the Vita was the lack of native calling and text. I think they would be in a similar position with any future portable. Having the entire PlayStation catalogue available going forward would definitly help things, but I can still see people saying, well it would be nice if I could use it as phone, but I just can't justify carrying around two devices, or I can't justify portable game player when I already have my phone. 

To this day I have people come up to me when I am browsing the web, watching videos, streaming music, or playing online on the Vita, and ask me how I am doing it. Some people ask if I am teathered to my phone, others ask if I get wifi (when there is no wifi around), and the rest just ask, how are you do that. When I tell people it has 3G, their face always lights up, and the next question is always, can you make calls on it.

In the beggining I didn't know about Skype, so for well over a year I always said no. Then when found out about Skype the 3G Model was long discontinued. 

At first I got the responses above. After I learned about Skype many people were asking how much it cost, and what provider it was on, just to be let down when I had to tell them it was discountinued. To which they would ask why, and claim they would much rather have something like the Vita than whatever current iPhone or Android device they had. Now I get the same questions, and when I tell people I used to be able to make calls on it, they are dumbfoundedas to why that would ever go away. 

Even this year I have had people come up to me ask these questions, get these answer, ask why, and pull out their Phone and say, I would much rather have something like that than this. Even with the limitations, and the lack of apps. 

As someone who has carried around the Vita for almost 6 years now, I know what my friends and family want if they were ever to buy another portable PlayStation. I have been to half the states in the US, I have been over seas, and I know what the general feeling is, from what has to be in the thousands of co-workers and random people that have come up to me through the years in air ports, resteraunts, waiting rooms, and every other random place you can imagine. People want a Portable PlayStation that they can make phone calls on, first and foremost, without that, their is next to no interest.

You know what the other two major questions are?

Question 2: Can you play online multiplayer on that?

Answer: With Wifi or teathering to your phone. 

Typical Response: Awe that sucks, you should be able to play on the mobile connection. I would get one if you could play (insert online multiplayer game) over 4G/LTE/Mobile or whatever word they use.

Question 3: Can you hook that up to a TV and play with a controller?

Answer: No, but they made a seperate device to do that.

Typical Response: How lame, you should be able watch and play stuff on a TV or Monitor. That would be cool then.

I don't necessarily disagree with the handheld having phone options in it, even if there needs to be a base and 'Pro' model, with and without. The question is what price would PS charge for an all in one device like that, and will people pay whatever that price is? Switch is $300 already, plus PS may not want to price their dedicated phones based on the 'Pro' handheld. Since they didn't add 4k BD to PS4 or Pro, it makes me think they wouldn't want to do it with the handheld. That would mean having a dedicated PS phone, and that just get's extremely complicated based on the path they seem to be on. Not impossible, just way too many possibilities and what if's when the phone comes into play.

If it were really going to happen, I would say make it a PS5 product, BC or not. If PS could design the handheld similar to the 3DS, where the screen flips up, but also comes apart and can be used as just a phone, but when you attach it to the controller half, it becomes a handheld, plus a dock that the handheld plugs into for TV with DS4/5, and even a separate boost dock maybe for checkerboard/true 4k. That way the controller portion has x86 and just uses the phone as a display, and the phone is ARM but only plays typical phone games on it's own. Controller half would also have it's own battery. PS games could only be played in handheld mode or docked. The base model would basically have a dummy phone that was just a screen, and the 'Pro' model would have a full fledged phone. Maybe you can take the phone/screen off, and use it to play with a friend like Switch? The screen may be a little small for that though. Something like this, where phone and handheld are merged, because I just don't see a gaming phone on it's own taking off. This or a PS Switch in a 'Pro' model that has full phone functionality. I just don't know how many people would want to carry around something as large as a Switch all day for normal everyday communication, plus the more than likely constant charging. 

A lot of ways they could go, but I see the Switch type device being only somewhat likely. The phone itself, very unlikely. A phone/handheld hybrid? Maybe, just maybe.

If Sony were to make a detachable phone type thing, why not just make a case/controller for the iphone or for android phones, and skip all the other bullshit?



KBG29 said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Yeah, because all casual gamers who play games on phone suddenly spend $60 for PS phone games while they didn't even spend $5 for a game on phone, all they play are free to play games. But yeah, i believe it will happen because you said so

So gamers don't own phones? Or only casuals would buy a Handheld Form Factor Phone? I am not getting where you are coming from.

How do I word "All Games, Play on All Devices, Across Any Given Platform" so that people understand it. 

You are not buying a $60 Phone game that you can play on your console. You are not buying a $60 console game you can play on your Phone. You are buying a Free, to $60 game, that plays on any device, under the ecosystem you choose to buy from. 

That is they way all software is going. Games can scale from as lower, or lower than 360p/30fps, all the way to 8K/60fps or higher. Every modern game engine is built for scalability, even Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony 1st party tools and engines are built this way. The engines and tool sets are built to develope titles across X86, ARM, Power PC and GeForce, Radeon, Adreno with 2GB of RAM or 20GB, with HDD or SSD, with Cartriges or Discs, and thousands, and thousands of other variations of hardware. The days of super custom hardware, and crazy to the metal development techniques are over.

Scalability within any given Platform, especially if all devices are built around the same architecture, is extreamly simple in the context of game development. That is why having a Watch, a Phone, and Handheld, a Tablet, a Car Audio Deck, a Speaker, a Console, a Computer, a TV, and countless other items in an ecosystem is becoming a reality. 

It doesn't stop on the software side either. The two biggest focuses of CPU and GPU development are Power Per Watt and Scalability. Again, making a wide range of products, running the same apps, games, and services easier, and more viable than ever.

 

Every company is putting every ounce of effort they can into making your content more valuable, and accessable. Platform holders, like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo want you to be able access your content anywhere you go, at whatever level you want, because they want you to remain in their ecosystem as long and as often as possible. They are fighting to make your life easier, and to do it in the simplist and most affordable way possible. Trust me, it is a good thing, you don't have to be scared.

Gamers own phone and the ones who play phone games are casual and only own phone, but because some unknown reasons they now purchase a ps4, even a ps5 too along with new PS4 phone, they do that for their destiny. Can't wait to buy a new modern phone in 2020 that have ps4 power which cost only $250 and last 10 hours. It doesn't exist in the world for at least next 10 years yet, however, Sony have black magic that can even resurrect people so create a godsend system right now is just a piece of cake

Last edited by HoangNhatAnh - on 19 January 2018

potato_hamster said:
EricHiggin said:

I don't necessarily disagree with the handheld having phone options in it, even if there needs to be a base and 'Pro' model, with and without. The question is what price would PS charge for an all in one device like that, and will people pay whatever that price is? Switch is $300 already, plus PS may not want to price their dedicated phones based on the 'Pro' handheld. Since they didn't add 4k BD to PS4 or Pro, it makes me think they wouldn't want to do it with the handheld. That would mean having a dedicated PS phone, and that just get's extremely complicated based on the path they seem to be on. Not impossible, just way too many possibilities and what if's when the phone comes into play.

If it were really going to happen, I would say make it a PS5 product, BC or not. If PS could design the handheld similar to the 3DS, where the screen flips up, but also comes apart and can be used as just a phone, but when you attach it to the controller half, it becomes a handheld, plus a dock that the handheld plugs into for TV with DS4/5, and even a separate boost dock maybe for checkerboard/true 4k. That way the controller portion has x86 and just uses the phone as a display, and the phone is ARM but only plays typical phone games on it's own. Controller half would also have it's own battery. PS games could only be played in handheld mode or docked. The base model would basically have a dummy phone that was just a screen, and the 'Pro' model would have a full fledged phone. Maybe you can take the phone/screen off, and use it to play with a friend like Switch? The screen may be a little small for that though. Something like this, where phone and handheld are merged, because I just don't see a gaming phone on it's own taking off. This or a PS Switch in a 'Pro' model that has full phone functionality. I just don't know how many people would want to carry around something as large as a Switch all day for normal everyday communication, plus the more than likely constant charging. 

A lot of ways they could go, but I see the Switch type device being only somewhat likely. The phone itself, very unlikely. A phone/handheld hybrid? Maybe, just maybe.

If Sony were to make a detachable phone type thing, why not just make a case/controller for the iphone or for android phones, and skip all the other bullshit?

Not sure how simple it would be to do with other phone brands and their hardware, but if SNY is going to continue to sell phones, then to make a portable PS gaming device that can hook up to any phone doesn't really make much sense. Same reason why PS and XB and Nin hardware don't cross over. Depending on what phone you had an what age it was, different connectors would also be necessary. It creates different kinds of headaches. Using a SNY PS branded phone would just make it easier, and once again, keep you more so in their ecosystem, and out of others. For those that want to keep their iPhone, and want a PS portable, they could just buy the cheaper version with the screen (dummy phone). Just another potential idea. 



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EricHiggin said:
potato_hamster said:

If Sony were to make a detachable phone type thing, why not just make a case/controller for the iphone or for android phones, and skip all the other bullshit?

Not sure how simple it would be to do with other phone brands and their hardware, but if SNY is going to continue to sell phones, then to make a portable PS gaming device that can hook up to any phone doesn't really make much sense. Same reason why PS and XB and Nin hardware don't cross over. Depending on what phone you had an what age it was, different connectors would also be necessary. It creates different kinds of headaches. Using a SNY PS branded phone would just make it easier, and once again, keep you more so in their ecosystem, and out of others. For those that want to keep their iPhone, and want a PS portable, they could just buy the cheaper version with the screen (dummy phone). Just another potential idea. 

So I can use Playstation Now, Pokemon Go, that New Animal crossing game, etc. on any new iPhone, but having another app that plays other Playstation or Nitnendo games would be too confusing for cosnumers?

Making a new phone (or phones), a new/adapted ecosystem, a new operating system, getting app developers on board, developing new features and enhancements, maintaining everything, and educating the market etc. would be easier for Nintendo to do than it would be to create a gamepad case for the post popular Samsung and Apple phones that make up what? 70%+ of the smart phone market? Sony already slapped playstation branding on a phone with a built in game pad. It failed miserably.

All of those problems you mentioned are *Far* easier to solve than it is to create an entirely new phone, and convince people to buy it.

Users would prefer having to go out and buy a new phone than getting a case for something they're familiar with and likely have already invested in in terms of purchases that they would lose by switching to a new ecosystem?

Okay. Keep thinking that.



potato_hamster said:
EricHiggin said:

Not sure how simple it would be to do with other phone brands and their hardware, but if SNY is going to continue to sell phones, then to make a portable PS gaming device that can hook up to any phone doesn't really make much sense. Same reason why PS and XB and Nin hardware don't cross over. Depending on what phone you had an what age it was, different connectors would also be necessary. It creates different kinds of headaches. Using a SNY PS branded phone would just make it easier, and once again, keep you more so in their ecosystem, and out of others. For those that want to keep their iPhone, and want a PS portable, they could just buy the cheaper version with the screen (dummy phone). Just another potential idea. 

So I can use Playstation Now, Pokemon Go, that New Animal crossing game, etc. on any new iPhone, but having another app that plays other Playstation or Nitnendo games would be too confusing for cosnumers?

Making a new phone (or phones), a new/adapted ecosystem, a new operating system, getting app developers on board, developing new features and enhancements, maintaining everything, and educating the market etc. would be easier for Nintendo to do than it would be to create a gamepad case for the post popular Samsung and Apple phones that make up what? 70%+ of the smart phone market? Sony already slapped playstation branding on a phone with a built in game pad. It failed miserably.

All of those problems you mentioned are *Far* easier to solve than it is to create an entirely new phone, and convince people to buy it.

Users would prefer having to go out and buy a new phone than getting a case for something they're familiar with and likely have already invested in in terms of purchases that they would lose by switching to a new ecosystem?

Okay. Keep thinking that.

Not tough for consumers, for PS/SNY. Why doesn't PS just make an app and put it on XB1 and have PS gamers buy an XB1, a separate DS4 if they like, and play the PS games they buy on the XB1, on PSN? That way, PS spends way less on hardware, and XB gets ripped off for doing all the hard work, only to have gamers buying many PS games and playing them on their hardware. This would also be great for PS gamers if they liked some XB titles as well, since they would also be able to play them, just like iPhone and Android users. XB gamers would also be able to easily play PS games on their XB1. PS clearly wants as much control over their ecosystem as possible, for many reasons, and by trying to make a controller that uses other phones doesn't fit that model. It also means PS and SNY would purposely be sharing their mobile gaming pie with the other mobile companies, and no business wants to share if they don't have to. Did XB allow cross-play between 360 and PS3?

If PS is so keen on sharing, and not worried about consumers who want to give some of their money to other companies, why haven't they allowed cross-play yet?

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 20 January 2018

EricHiggin said:
potato_hamster said:

So I can use Playstation Now, Pokemon Go, that New Animal crossing game, etc. on any new iPhone, but having another app that plays other Playstation or Nitnendo games would be too confusing for cosnumers?

Making a new phone (or phones), a new/adapted ecosystem, a new operating system, getting app developers on board, developing new features and enhancements, maintaining everything, and educating the market etc. would be easier for Nintendo to do than it would be to create a gamepad case for the post popular Samsung and Apple phones that make up what? 70%+ of the smart phone market? Sony already slapped playstation branding on a phone with a built in game pad. It failed miserably.

All of those problems you mentioned are *Far* easier to solve than it is to create an entirely new phone, and convince people to buy it.

Users would prefer having to go out and buy a new phone than getting a case for something they're familiar with and likely have already invested in in terms of purchases that they would lose by switching to a new ecosystem?

Okay. Keep thinking that.

Not tough for consumers, for PS/SNY. Why doesn't PS just make an app and put it on XB1 and have PS gamers buy an XB1, a separate DS4 if they like, and play the PS games they buy on the XB1, on PSN? That way, PS spends way less on hardware, and XB gets ripped off for doing all the hard work, only to have gamers buying many PS games and playing them on their hardware. This would also be great for PS gamers if they liked some XB titles as well, since they would also be able to play them, just like iPhone and Android users. XB gamers would also be able to easily play PS games on their XB1. PS clearly wants as much control over their ecosystem as possible, for many reasons, and by trying to make a controller that uses other phones doesn't fit that model. It also means PS and SNY would purposely be sharing their mobile gaming pie with the other mobile companies, and no business wants to share if they don't have to. Did XB allow cross-play between 360 and PS3?

If PS is so keen on sharing, and not worried about consumers who want to give some of their money to other companies, why haven't they allowed cross-play yet?

This seems like a pretty asinine argument. There's a world of difference trying to compete against Apple and Google whose phones sell combined sell over 250 million units a year vs the console space which might sell 250 million over 5 years. Apple probably spends more on their iOS development and maintenance in a year than Sony will spent developing and maintaining the PS4 for its entire life. Maybe that's why you can already get a PSN app, and a PSN app on iPhone and android, you can already get Nintendo's voice app, and mobile specific games on iOS and android, and you can already get Xbox apps on iOS and android. It appears Sony, Nintendo and MS already know what seems ridiculous to you - it's a fools errand to try and compete against the juggernaut that is iOS and Android.

Is it really less logical to take it one step further and develop an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy controller case than it is to make an entirely new phone from the ground up?

Sony is currently selling 1/10th as many cell phones per year as Apple is.



potato_hamster said:
EricHiggin said:

Not tough for consumers, for PS/SNY. Why doesn't PS just make an app and put it on XB1 and have PS gamers buy an XB1, a separate DS4 if they like, and play the PS games they buy on the XB1, on PSN? That way, PS spends way less on hardware, and XB gets ripped off for doing all the hard work, only to have gamers buying many PS games and playing them on their hardware. This would also be great for PS gamers if they liked some XB titles as well, since they would also be able to play them, just like iPhone and Android users. XB gamers would also be able to easily play PS games on their XB1. PS clearly wants as much control over their ecosystem as possible, for many reasons, and by trying to make a controller that uses other phones doesn't fit that model. It also means PS and SNY would purposely be sharing their mobile gaming pie with the other mobile companies, and no business wants to share if they don't have to. Did XB allow cross-play between 360 and PS3?

If PS is so keen on sharing, and not worried about consumers who want to give some of their money to other companies, why haven't they allowed cross-play yet?

This seems like a pretty asinine argument. There's a world of difference trying to compete against Apple and Google whose phones sell combined sell over 250 million units a year vs the console space which might sell 250 million over 5 years. Apple probably spends more on their iOS development and maintenance in a year than Sony will spent developing and maintaining the PS4 for its entire life. Maybe that's why you can already get a PSN app, and a PSN app on iPhone and android, you can already get Nintendo's voice app, and mobile specific games on iOS and android, and you can already get Xbox apps on iOS and android. It appears Sony, Nintendo and MS already know what seems ridiculous to you - it's a fools errand to try and compete against the juggernaut that is iOS and Android.

Is it really less logical to take it one step further and develop an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy controller case than it is to make an entirely new phone from the ground up?

Sony is currently selling 1/10th as many cell phones per year as Apple is.

This has nothing to do with specifically trying to take down iOS or Android. It has everything to do with PS and their mostly closed ecosystem. Just like how you can't simply plug any device or add any app to the PS4 and get it to work. It also depends on how PS wants to design the handheld. With different phone sizes and dimensions, just taking any phone and being able to easily plug it in and have it be physically stable and reliable, isn't so simple. Maybe they could or would want to to do that, maybe the design they would want won't work for existing phones. PS much prefers a clean, sleek design. The point is more so the handheld experience, not the phone, but creating a phone that can easily work with the handheld controller design, as well as on it's own. It's about catering to the PS ecosystem, with the benefit of getting more SNY phones out there as a side effect.

If you also think about the younger kids who could end up experiencing a phone for the first time, since it's attached to their PS handheld controller, and that phone being a PS/SNY product, would help with brand recognition in that space over time. There are plenty of people who stay with whatever model/brand they come in contact with initially, as long as it does the job and is reliable. Again, it doesn't mean that PS/SNY will take over the phone market by any means, but it should help them grow that segment larger than it would otherwise.