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Forums - Movies & TV - George Lucas Was Right About the Star Wars Fanbase

Despite me being in the minority, I actually very much enjoyed The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith. I mean let's be honest - everyone was blown away by the lightsaber battle between Obi-Wan/Jin and Darth Maul. However, I thought The Force Awakens was a glorified fan service, so much that it inadvertently became a remake of A New Hope - through and through. On a scale of 1 - 10, I'd give The Force Awakens a 5/10. No originality what so ever...

Now, The Last Jedi...was a critically approved plate of hot garbage. It's almost as if Disney sent out a memo to the film critics who granted them pre-screening early access that went "Dear critic, you must emphasize your review of The Last Jedi by calling it the best since The Empire Strikes Back and give it at least an 8.5 or higher - refusal to do so and we will revoke any future pre screening privileges and black-list you". Because I swear to god, critic advertising was RAMPANT with the headline "Best Star Wars since The Empire Strikes Back!", too bad that was far from the truth. In reality, it's the worst since Attack of the Clones and Return of the Jedi. I won't go into detail because I don't want to spoil anything for someone - but I will say that there is a perfect reason as to why it has a 60% user rating on Rotten Tomatoes and its Box Office earnings dropped by 67% on its second week. (220 Million opening, to a 65 Million following week) To put that in perspective, the last movie that had that kind of Box Office dive was BvS: Dawn of Justice.



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Pretty my impressions of each film as I saw them:

Return of the Jedi:
Saw it in theaters as a little kid. Actually missed all of Jabba's palace because we got to the movie late. Was blown away. Thought it was the greatest thing ever.

A New Hope:
Saw it on TV as a kid. Thought it was kinda boring. Needed more lightsaber fights.

Empire Strikes Back:
Saw it on TV as a kid. Thought it was badass. Didn't understand why it ended in a cliffhanger. Was dying to see what happened next--didn't know I had seen the ending already!

Bought the Special Editions on VHS. Loved them. Been watching them at least annually since the later 90s. Never understood the hate.

Phantom Menace:
Saw it in theaters. Fell asleep. Didn't like it. Bought it on DVD. Still didn't like it. Obi Wan was okay. Didn't really like much else.

Episode II:
Left the theater giddy! So much action! That Yoda fight scene!! Bought it on DVD. Still liked it. Never understood the hate until later on. The internet had to point out the flaws.

Revenge of the Sith:
Loved it. Still in awe of the way everything tied together. Now I'd watch the entire saga on DVD. Even began to appreciate Ep I.

The Force Awakens:
Went in with high hopes. Left underwhelmed by the new heroes...but hopeful.

Rogue One:
Underwhelmed. Mostly because I already knew how things were gonna go. Didn't like the cast. Oh well. It was just a side story.

The Last Jedi:
Couldn't see it opening weekend (had to work) but I heard the backlash. I thought it was just an overreaction. I walked in ready to love it. Walked out with no more hope for the franchise.

And that's my story. Thank you.



mZuzek said:

Just watched it tonight.

It's a very good movie, and also a terrible one. I'm leaning more towards the terrible side, but I can understand where the lovers are coming from because there's a lot of good amongst the bad - it just felt like for every good thing that happened, another two bad things had to as well.

Luke's story was mostly very good imo. The explanation for how it all went down between him and Kylo Ren, I digged that. I like how he was very reluctant to get back because he had already given hope on everything he stood for because of his own failure and all that. Despite all of that though, I thought it was really stupid how even after all this time, he still needs Yoda's guidance (I mean, come on), and even more stupid how we actually get to see his X-Wing underwater, which should have been his means of getting to the battle at the end but instead we never see or hear a thing about the X-Wing again and he just shows up as a hologram and pretends to die... only to actually die later. That was very stupid.

Trying to be as objective as possible, I'd say the movie was very well directed, it looks pretty cool and the set-pieces were amazing, I thought a lot of scenes were handled very well. However the script was absolutely horrendous, it felt like the movie had no progression at all, the pacing was a complete mess. I mean, I think a good script needs a beginning, middle and end, but this didn't have any of that, it was just nonstop action and drama and shit going on all the fucking time incessantly and every time you thought the movie was going to end it just kept going. It felt like an endless climax from start to finish, they kept throwing plot twists every couple of seconds and by the 7th time you think the ending is coming it's just hard to care, and the movie felt like it was 4 hours long.

I think when I was watching it, there were moments when I was sold. There were moments where I was beginning to be convinced that this movie was going somewhere cool after all the crap. But in the long term, I think the memory will mostly be a very negative one.

So, no, I'm sorry, I'm on the hate side - but I can understand where the other side comes from.

I'm with you. I can see why some people would like it and obviously, I know why I hate it. I just have to accept that the franchise had become something that isn't for me anymore.

 

It's like Die Hard. It used to be one thing. Now, it's something else. I can still enjoy the original, though.



d21lewis said:
mZuzek said:

Just watched it tonight.

It's a very good movie, and also a terrible one. I'm leaning more towards the terrible side, but I can understand where the lovers are coming from because there's a lot of good amongst the bad - it just felt like for every good thing that happened, another two bad things had to as well.

Luke's story was mostly very good imo. The explanation for how it all went down between him and Kylo Ren, I digged that. I like how he was very reluctant to get back because he had already given hope on everything he stood for because of his own failure and all that. Despite all of that though, I thought it was really stupid how even after all this time, he still needs Yoda's guidance (I mean, come on), and even more stupid how we actually get to see his X-Wing underwater, which should have been his means of getting to the battle at the end but instead we never see or hear a thing about the X-Wing again and he just shows up as a hologram and pretends to die... only to actually die later. That was very stupid.

Trying to be as objective as possible, I'd say the movie was very well directed, it looks pretty cool and the set-pieces were amazing, I thought a lot of scenes were handled very well. However the script was absolutely horrendous, it felt like the movie had no progression at all, the pacing was a complete mess. I mean, I think a good script needs a beginning, middle and end, but this didn't have any of that, it was just nonstop action and drama and shit going on all the fucking time incessantly and every time you thought the movie was going to end it just kept going. It felt like an endless climax from start to finish, they kept throwing plot twists every couple of seconds and by the 7th time you think the ending is coming it's just hard to care, and the movie felt like it was 4 hours long.

I think when I was watching it, there were moments when I was sold. There were moments where I was beginning to be convinced that this movie was going somewhere cool after all the crap. But in the long term, I think the memory will mostly be a very negative one.

So, no, I'm sorry, I'm on the hate side - but I can understand where the other side comes from.

I'm with you. I can see why some people would like it and obviously, I know why I hate it. I just have to accept that the franchise had become something that isn't for me anymore.

 

It's like Die Hard. It used to be one thing. Now, it's something else. I can still enjoy the original, though.

I feel the same.

Star Wars is just not fun anymore and I'm not gonna watch anymore of it. I have the originals and that's fine, they're a complete story. I don't need the other stuff anyway.



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Goodnightmoon said:

These are TOTALLY different scenarios. Yoda and Obi Wan all but HAD to go into hiding because the clone troopers were on an all out mission of wiping out the entire Jedi order.. (which now that I think about it is ironically kind of what Johnson has done in TLJ heh)

Luke runs off into hiding (even though he apparently gave our heroes a map to find him in TFA awakens for some reason..? But whatever that's a different story) and acts like a depressed emo and grumpy old man because.. reasons I guess. Oh I suppose it's because his wimpy emo nephew turned to the dark side? Oh god forbid! Even though they had soundly defeated the Empire beforehand and the Jedi order was no longer in danger.

And I actually kind of like the idea of Luke being bitter and jaded after all these years, but the problem is this movie hardly goes into the WHY. WHAT transpired in these 30 years to make Luke do almost a complete 180 from his strong and upbeat character from the OT? Though I guess I shouldn't be too surprised as the movie don't get into just about any world building or character development in detail..

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 27 December 2017

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

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Pavolink said:

I imagine a fan from tlj and tfa made this. People that saw the real movies would never made this.

 

These types of statements are part of the reason why "hard-core" Star Wars fans are generally being laughed-off right now. In Obi-Wan's (somewhat ironic) words: "Only the Sith speak in absolutes."

I've definitely seen the "real" movies. I also enjoyed TLJ.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. 

To dislike the current crop of movies is fine; I have a lot of criticisms I would level at the movies as well. In fact, I wasn't a big fan of TFA at all. What creates disconnect for your viewpoint is suggesting that "real fans" would never have a different opinion. 

I grew up with the OT on VHS, then the special editions in theaters, then the prequels, then the further altered DVD and (later) Blu-ray editions, and now I'm here for the sequel trilogy. I watch the OT through multiple times each and every year - alternating between the BRs, the SE DVDs, Harmy's fantastic "Despecialized" versions, and even the old VHS tapes to mix things up.

Long story short: I consider myself a fan. 

To suggest that one's opinion is false, or that they aren't a "true" fan, because their ideal SW experience doesn't align with your own is, honestly, a bit insulting. I value your opinion, and respect your right to an opinion. Please value and respect ours by engaging in open conversation about the things you specifically enjoyed or disliked about the movie itself.



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Saw it twice now - one week apart.  Both times the theater cheered out loud and applauded at the end of the movie - both times the theater was packed.

I guess my experiences were different than others here :) I really enjoyed the movie - and the second viewing cleared up alot of questions I had from the first.  The real issue (if there is one) is there is *so much* going on that it's easy to miss things.

Discussion of the movie :


The 'huge plot hole' about the small ships being able to catch the big ships or go faster - is explained in the movie - at sublight speed the small ships are faster than the large ships - the empire small ships were 'on top' of the big ships - Kylo Ren even blows up the bridge with Leia on it - but he's told they can't provide cover once the ships change range - so yeah - smaller ships can catch up to or outrun the big ships - all explained in the movie if you paid attention.

Rei training in five minutes.... based on the multiple day/night cycles that are shown - we aren't given a hard timeline as to how long between movie one and two.  The stories are told together but they don't mesh up timewise until the end.

The big side mission that had no point - I felt like this was the biggest mistake of the movie the first time I saw it.  On second viewing I think it may be the biggest triumph of the new series and what sets us up for the ongoing saga.

Last thoughts:  If they don't (planned or not) build on the big middle side mission then it will make this movie less - it's an odd situation and something I personally am willing to hold final judgment on until the last movie is out and how they handle it.  If that side mission is as important to the setup of the future story as I *think* it will be it will feel worth it in the end, however I could be very wrong.

To the rest of the movie.  Look this series (the first one as well) has been overshadowed by the original characters from the time we see Han show up in the Falcon.  I think the main 3 needed to step back - and I'm not sure any way they did that was going to resonate well with fans - I think at this point I would have felt better to see them no longer part of the story and just 'legends'.   Such as it is Mark did a fantastic performance - perhaps the best of his life - and carried this movie on his back.  I'm very interested to see how the final movie plays out now that they no longer have to work under the 'shadow' of the OT characters.  The 'let the past die' is so very apt.

I liked the movie - I had some things I wasn't thrilled with but the second viewing was actually better than the first - and frankly I'm excited to see the series move forward from here - it's only sad that at the end of two movies... I feel like we are only now going to get to really know our 'lead' characters.

 

/my two cents.



StuOhQ said:
Pavolink said:

I imagine a fan from tlj and tfa made this. People that saw the real movies would never made this.

 

These types of statements are part of the reason why "hard-core" Star Wars fans are generally being laughed-off right now. In Obi-Wan's (somewhat ironic) words: "Only the Sith speak in absolutes."

I've definitely seen the "real" movies. I also enjoyed TLJ.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. 

To dislike the current crop of movies is fine; I have a lot of criticisms I would level at the movies as well. In fact, I wasn't a big fan of TFA at all. What creates disconnect for your viewpoint is suggesting that "real fans" would never have a different opinion. 

I grew up with the OT on VHS, then the special editions in theaters, then the prequels, then the further altered DVD and (later) Blu-ray editions, and now I'm here for the sequel trilogy. I watch the OT through multiple times each and every year - alternating between the BRs, the SE DVDs, Harmy's fantastic "Despecialized" versions, and even the old VHS tapes to mix things up.

Long story short: I consider myself a fan. 

To suggest that one's opinion is false, or that they aren't a "true" fan, because their ideal SW experience doesn't align with your own is, honestly, a bit insulting. I value your opinion, and respect your right to an opinion. Please value and respect ours by engaging in open conversation about the things you specifically enjoyed or disliked about the movie itself.

Neither tfa or tlj are real SW movies because both doesn't add anything to the series. In fact, it obly goes against the logic established in.

 

And I never mentioned anything about real or fake SW fans. If you believe you are not a real fan or the desire to justify why you liked those new movies you are free to do. I'm not going to be the one that contradicts you.

 

But, that does not change the fact the the pic is wrong and only people that ignores the real SW movies would believe that.



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