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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Belgium says loot boxes are gambling, wants them banned in Europe

Maxkill on 22 November 2017
Errorist76 said:
I want to rise a point of discussion:

What in your opinion would be a possible alternative in order to raise revenue for developers and publishers, to compensate for ever rising development costs?

I’ve been gaming since 35 years and tbh it feels as game prices have never adapted to inflation. We still basically pay the same as we did 20 years ago.

Would you accept rising game prices instead?!

Companies like CDP Red pay lower wages and rent than most other developers worldwide. A point to consider for sure.

What do you say about that controversial topic? I’d really like to know your opinion.

This is a very good question,you should make it a tread,it deserves.



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Zoombael on 22 November 2017
SecondWar said:
GribbleGrunger said:
I wonder where they were with mobile games? I'm totally against lootboxes and I'm glad people are talking about cracking down on it but I find it really odd people are talking about it now.

Because it's passable when the initial game is free - people get that the developer has to get their money from somewhere. But most people take issue when its tacked onto full-priced console games, as its a sneaky way to boost margins.

Thats like saying gambling for all ages in a casino is passable... when there is an entrance fee.

 



Hunting Season is done...

Errorist76 on 22 November 2017
OdinHades said:
Errorist76 said:
I want to rise a point of discussion:

What in your opinion would be a possible alternative in order to raise revenue for developers and publishers, to compensate for ever rising development costs?

I’ve been gaming since 35 years and tbh it feels as game prices have never adapted to inflation. We still basically pay the same as we did 20 years ago.

Would you accept rising game prices instead?!

[...]

Yes. Rising game prices would be transparent and fair. Everybody would knew what they are up for. But loot boxes are just trying to exploit people and especially those that can't control themselves. The tactics are very well known in gambling and by drug dealers and there is a very good reason why both of that is strictly regulated in most countries in the world.

Besides that, rising development costs are a myth. They have been pretty flat in the last 10 years or so. Plus gaming grew astronomically in the last 35 years. The games may cost the same, but especially the big publishers sell 10 times more of them. So there really was never a reason to raise prices, which is why it never happened.

 

Thank you for your comment. I totally agree on your first comment. Do you have some proof for the second part though?I kind of doubt it actually. In the other thread with PS4 million sellers numbers for PS2 and PS3 showed there were considerably more million sellers back then, definitely not way less. (Of course it’s still early in PS4’s gen, but still...would like to know some hard facts)

Last edited by Errorist76 - on 22 November 2017

Errorist76 on 22 November 2017
Maxkill said:
Errorist76 said:
I want to rise a point of discussion:

What in your opinion would be a possible alternative in order to raise revenue for developers and publishers, to compensate for ever rising development costs?

I’ve been gaming since 35 years and tbh it feels as game prices have never adapted to inflation. We still basically pay the same as we did 20 years ago.

Would you accept rising game prices instead?!

Companies like CDP Red pay lower wages and rent than most other developers worldwide. A point to consider for sure.

What do you say about that controversial topic? I’d really like to know your opinion.

This is a very good question,you should make it a tread,it deserves.

 

I was actually just having the same thought. Don’t want to distract too much from the thread topic, but I think it deserves a discussion. A bit low on time today though...I’ll keep it in mind. If someone else feels like it, please go ahead! 



Chrizum on 22 November 2017

Still don't see how lootboxes are gambling. Gambling is about making money. That's the dangerous part: people think they can make make money and when they lose they want to earn it back by gambling, and so on.

If loot boxes are gambling, so are trading card games and Kinder Surprise Eggs.

I also think y'all are a bunch of hypocrites. You applaud this because you dislike loot boxes. But gaming itself is also highly addictive... in fact gaming addiction is the most prevalent kind of addiction among youngsters these days. How would you feel if governments crack down on gaming in general because of its addictive properties?



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green_sky on 22 November 2017

Belgium is the hero we need. Wonder what consequences will be there if this catches on worldwide. Doubt it though.



RJ_Sizzle on 22 November 2017
GribbleGrunger said:
SecondWar said:

Because it's passable when the initial game is free - people get that the developer has to get their money from somewhere. But most people take issue when its tacked onto full-priced console games, as its a sneaky way to boost margins.

Naa, you're thinking about your own motives for disliking it. I'm talking about their motives for disliking it because they apply to phone games too:

 "The mixing of money and addiction is gambling," the Gaming Commission declared. Belgium's Minister of Justice Koen Geens also weighed in, saying, "Mixing gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child." 

And there have been numerous stories over the years of children costing parents hundreds of dollars/pounds because of mobile game transactions. So why now? 

Because console gamers seem to have been making bigger noise about this. Mobile is more casual so it tends to fly under their nose, or gets shrugged off. Now? It's too many major players getting their hands caught in the cookie jar. Microsoft, Warner Bros, Take Two, EA... it can't be ignored anymore. 



RJ_Sizzle on 22 November 2017
Chrizum said:
Still don't see how lootboxes are gambling. Gambling is about making money. That's the dangerous part: people think they can make make money and when they lose they want to earn it back by gambling, and so on.

If loot boxes are gambling, so are trading card games and Kinder Surprise Eggs.

I also think y'all are a bunch of hypocrites. You applaud this because you dislike loot boxes. But gaming itself is also highly addictive... in fact gaming addiction is the most prevalent kind of addiction among youngsters these days. How would you feel if governments crack down on gaming in general because of its addictive properties?

This is some horrible apologetic garbage. This is about lootboxes infecting gameplay to the point where they have snuck their way into becoming pay to win. Exploiting people on top of a 60 dollar price tag. Maybe you're the kind of person that likes giving companies extra money for little to no reward, but the rest of us aren't. This has nothing to do with playing video games in of themselves. 



Chrizum on 22 November 2017
RJ_Sizzle said:
Chrizum said:
Still don't see how lootboxes are gambling. Gambling is about making money. That's the dangerous part: people think they can make make money and when they lose they want to earn it back by gambling, and so on.

If loot boxes are gambling, so are trading card games and Kinder Surprise Eggs.

I also think y'all are a bunch of hypocrites. You applaud this because you dislike loot boxes. But gaming itself is also highly addictive... in fact gaming addiction is the most prevalent kind of addiction among youngsters these days. How would you feel if governments crack down on gaming in general because of its addictive properties?

This is some horrible apologetic garbage. This is about lootboxes infecting gameplay to the point where they have snuck their way into becoming pay to win. Exploiting people on top of a 60 dollar price tag. Maybe you're the kind of person that likes giving companies extra money for little to no reward, but the rest of us aren't. This has nothing to do with playing video games in of themselves. 

You seem to have completely misunderstood the topic. This is not about pay to win or about gameplay or about value. The topic is about lootboxes being gambling. I didn't say I like lootboxes either. I'm just saying I don't think it's gambling any more than trading card games and Kinder Surprise Eggs are. So relax, take some deep breaths and try again.



RJ_Sizzle on 22 November 2017
Chrizum said:
RJ_Sizzle said:

This is some horrible apologetic garbage. This is about lootboxes infecting gameplay to the point where they have snuck their way into becoming pay to win. Exploiting people on top of a 60 dollar price tag. Maybe you're the kind of person that likes giving companies extra money for little to no reward, but the rest of us aren't. This has nothing to do with playing video games in of themselves. 

You seem to have completely misunderstood the topic. This is not about pay to win or about gameplay or about value. The topic is about lootboxes being gambling. I didn't say I like lootboxes either. I'm just saying I don't think it's gambling any more than trading card games and Kinder Surprise Eggs are. So relax, take some deep breaths and try again.

And you seem to have misunderstood why people get angry about the lootboxes. Games are expensive enough without major publishers shoehorning bullshit slot machine mechanics on top of them. Loot boxes are worse than gambling since there's no choice of a monetary return for those that pay in. You're giving a company free money for in game baubles that you may not even get. Sorry, if I seem snappy about this, but there's no reason for anyone on the consumer side to be defending this.

Companies should be trying to make more money by making a better product, not by fishing for kids and people with addictive personalities into video game gambling schemes.