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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Article: Nintendo Has Won 2017

GuyDuke on 15 September 2017
setsunatenshi said:
Miyamotoo said:

What you personally think is totally different thing, we have scores like proof what more objectively is better. Yes Sony has more exclusives (that actualy isnt strange becuse its few years on market so has stronger support and is was 2 monts more on market than Switch this year,), but Nintendo has higher quality exclusives so far, Zelda BotW and Mario Odyssey will be above everything Sony had this year despite fact that PS4 will have tons of games this year. Also from games you mentioned only two are Sony games, so Nintendo definitely easily beate Sony in quality of games for this year.

Scores are objective now?

His opinion of Sony having higher quality exclusives is then invalid because you think Zelda and Mario Odyssey (not even released yet) are better?

you can't make this shit up xD

''An argument from authority, also called an appeal to authority, is a form of defeasible[4] argument in which a claimed authority's support is used as evidence for an argument's conclusion. It is well known as a fallacy, though if all parties agrees on the reliability of an authority in the given context it forms a valid inductive argument.''

A score isn't objective in itself. Though, it is a legitimate force in argumentation when an aggregate score is used in order to make a point. That way, no matter if the reliability of a source is questioned, you can't question the relevance of all critics.

So yeah, it's the closest thing you can have to objectivity.



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AsGryffynn on 15 September 2017
Jranation said:
AsGryffynn said:

Well, there's nothing to concern yourself yourself with this year, but you might want to hunker down in a bunker next year... 

And hopefully they don't make handhelds mainstream. I still prefer my couch box home theatre computer disc playing disco stand in Roku clone consoles and the overpowered processors with traditional hard drives. It would kill me to see everything become a tablet with optional controls... 

Sony = VR

MS = Most Powerful Console

Nintendo = Hybrid Home console + Handheld

 

Everyone is doing their own thing. 

Hopefully it stays that way... 



potato_hamster on 15 September 2017
guiduc said:
setsunatenshi said:

Scores are objective now?

His opinion of Sony having higher quality exclusives is then invalid because you think Zelda and Mario Odyssey (not even released yet) are better?

you can't make this shit up xD

''An argument from authority, also called an appeal to authority, is a form of defeasible[4] argument in which a claimed authority's support is used as evidence for an argument's conclusion. It is well known as a fallacy, though if all parties agrees on the reliability of an authority in the given context it forms a valid inductive argument.''

A score isn't objective in itself. Though, it is a legitimate force in argumentation when an aggregate score is used in order to make a point. That way, no matter if the reliability of a source is questioned, you can't question the relevance of all critics.

So yeah, it's the closest thing you can have to objectivity.

But just because it's the closest thing we can get to making opinions objective doesnt mean the result is objective, it's just less subjective in some ways.



GuyDuke on 15 September 2017

Double post, fuck VGC.



GuyDuke on 15 September 2017
potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:

What you personally think is totally different thing, we have scores like proof what more objectively is better. Yes Sony has more exclusives (that actualy isnt strange becuse its few years on market so has stronger support and is was 2 monts more on market than Switch this year,), but Nintendo has higher quality exclusives so far, Zelda BotW and Mario Odyssey will be above everything Sony had this year despite fact that PS4 will have tons of games this year. Also from games you mentioned only two are Sony games, so Nintendo definitely easily beate Sony in quality of games for this year.

Bullshit argument.

There's nothing objective about metacritic scores. It's just the average of a sample set of the numerical scores a group of writers gave games they reviewed based on their own subjective opinions. If you're going off review scores, all you're doing is valuing a certain group's opinions above others, nothing more.

Oh please, over 100 critics can review a single game. It's beyond just a ''group of writers'' as you stated. Those are supposed to be the top experts in the industry, some of them are making a living out of this. Expertise comes off of skill and knowledge, know-how. Most of them have played games for a long time. Some of them are former developers, some of them are former business representatives, some of them worked for Nintendo or Sony or MS.

Yes, we're valuing a certain ''elite'' opinion amongst others, just like we value journalism or medical expertise. Because most of the time, they know best. How are we supposed to evaluate a game's quality anyway, according to your so-called argument? With our own point of view? Because it still brings up the issue of subjectivity. Your point leads nowhere, or you'll have to explain me how you can sell your game's quality to the masses without valuing that ''group's opinions'' above other.



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Miyamotoo on 15 September 2017
Pinkie_pie said:
Miyamotoo said:

So far only one that is above any PS4 game not just exclusives, and soon we will have second. I mentioned one game thats released and game that will be released soon that will above any other Sony game, but offcourse that Nintendo didnt had only those games that are good this year, while you bascily mentione almost evre PS4 exclusive this year. Lol, of course that PS4 and even XB1 easily beat Switch and 3DS if we talk about 3rd party games, but if we talk about quality of exlusives, not to mentine games made from house, result is quite difrent.

I can assure you i only mentioned less than half of sony exclusives. Those games i mentioned are the ones i bought this year and i wanted to buy a few others like horizon and lost legacy but just havent finished yakuza kiwami yet. Sony has at least twice as much exclusives than what switch has so far this year.

And I wrote that Sony has bigger number of exclusives, and that actualy isnt nothing strange, PS4 is almost 4 years on market so has much bigger support in any case and it was two months more on market this year than Switch.

 

setsunatenshi said:
Miyamotoo said:

What you personally think is totally different thing, we have scores like proof what more objectively is better. Yes Sony has more exclusives (that actualy isnt strange becuse its few years on market so has stronger support and is was 2 monts more on market than Switch this year,), but Nintendo has higher quality exclusives so far, Zelda BotW and Mario Odyssey will be above everything Sony had this year despite fact that PS4 will have tons of games this year. Also from games you mentioned only two are Sony games, so Nintendo definitely easily beate Sony in quality of games for this year.

Scores are objective now?

His opinion of Sony having higher quality exclusives is then invalid because you think Zelda and Mario Odyssey (not even released yet) are better?

you can't make this shit up xD

Well average score of reviews of gaming media is definitely far more objective when we talk whats better game, compared what you or I say, espacily if we dont think same. Also Its fact that Zelda BotW is much more critically acclaimed game than Horizon, so what me or he thinks doesn't really matter. Zelda BotW has average 97 score based on 108 critics.

 

potato_hamster said:
Miyamotoo said:

What you personally think is totally different thing, we have scores like proof what more objectively is better. Yes Sony has more exclusives (that actualy isnt strange becuse its few years on market so has stronger support and is was 2 monts more on market than Switch this year,), but Nintendo has higher quality exclusives so far, Zelda BotW and Mario Odyssey will be above everything Sony had this year despite fact that PS4 will have tons of games this year. Also from games you mentioned only two are Sony games, so Nintendo definitely easily beate Sony in quality of games for this year.

Bullshit argument.

There's nothing objective about metacritic scores. It's just the average of a sample set of the numerical scores a group of writers gave games they reviewed based on their own subjective opinions. If you're going off review scores, all you're doing is valuing a certain group's opinions above others, nothing more.

No your argument is bullshit. Average score of more than 100 reviews of gaming media is definitely far more objective when we talk whats better game, compared what you or I say.



GuyDuke on 15 September 2017
potato_hamster said:
guiduc said:

''An argument from authority, also called an appeal to authority, is a form of defeasible[4] argument in which a claimed authority's support is used as evidence for an argument's conclusion. It is well known as a fallacy, though if all parties agrees on the reliability of an authority in the given context it forms a valid inductive argument.''

A score isn't objective in itself. Though, it is a legitimate force in argumentation when an aggregate score is used in order to make a point. That way, no matter if the reliability of a source is questioned, you can't question the relevance of all critics.

So yeah, it's the closest thing you can have to objectivity.

But just because it's the closest thing we can get to making opinions objective doesnt mean the result is objective, it's just less subjective in some ways.

Well we can't really escape subjectivity, after all. It taints most of what we do in our daily lives. But we can come close of weeding out the extremely subjective reviews, by referencing ourselves to an average.

And let it be known that the Metacritic aggregator weights averages, as stated on their website: ''Metascore is a weighted average in that we assign more importance, or weight, to some critics and publications than others, based on their quality and overall stature. In addition, for music and movies, we also normalize the resulting scores (akin to "grading on a curve" in college), which prevents scores from clumping together. We carefully curate a large group of the world’s most respected critics, assign scores to their reviews, and apply a weighted average to summarize the range of their opinions.''

Usually, we can agree that the more stature and reputation a critic has, the more rigorous and strict should be its review rules. It should be observing the harshest of evaluation process in order to uphold the magazine or website's reputation. That means, ruling out the fakes and the sensationalists.



V-r0cK on 15 September 2017

Written by Morgan Lewis from Video Game Culture Headquarters huh...Guess I know what website/writer I wont take seriously lol



Louie on 15 September 2017

This is highly subjective of course and it was quite obvious we'd get list wars in this thread. Both Sony and Nintendo have a great lineup this year. It's certainly nice to have two equally strong manufacturers to choose from right now and to see the video gaming market grow again.



potato_hamster on 15 September 2017
guiduc said:
potato_hamster said:

Bullshit argument.

There's nothing objective about metacritic scores. It's just the average of a sample set of the numerical scores a group of writers gave games they reviewed based on their own subjective opinions. If you're going off review scores, all you're doing is valuing a certain group's opinions above others, nothing more.

Oh please, over 100 critics can review a single game. It's beyond just a ''group of writers'' as you stated. Those are supposed to be the top experts in the industry, some of them are making a living out of this. Expertise comes off of skill and knowledge, know-how. Most of them have played games for a long time. Some of them are former developers, some of them are former business representatives, some of them worked for Nintendo or Sony or MS.

Yes, we're valuing a certain ''elite'' opinion amongst others, just like we value journalism or medical expertise. Because most of the time, they know best. How are we supposed to evaluate a game's quality anyway, according to your so-called argument? With our own point of view? Because it still brings up the issue of subjectivity. Your point leads nowhere, or you'll have to explain me how you can sell your game's quality to the masses without valuing that ''group's opinions'' above other.

So 100 critics, some of which are actual journalists with degrees who are passionate about video games, or passionate game fans who got their start writing walkthroughs with no actual education in the matter.... are now experts?

By your list of what makes video game reviewers experts:

Most of them have played games for a long time. I've been playing games for clost to three decades
Some of them are former developers. I've got close to a decade of console game development under my belt.
Some of them worked for Nintendo or Sony or MS. I did work on a couple of would-be first party titles that never got released for one of those companies, and I've worked directly with all three of them.

Looks like I'm an expert! How about you ask me about my opinion on Breath of the Wild? :P

Here, I'll let Guru Larry remind you of a few examples of why you're talking out of your ass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKNs_4OZQzk

Look, you can trust that the specifics of certain reviewers can be indicate whether or not it's likely you will enjoy a game based on whether or not you agree with their previous opinions about games you like and don't like. That's pretty much it.

Modded - Axum