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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Doom and Wolfenstein II The New Colossus coming to Switch

Doom seems to be more GPU bound than CPU bound, given its dynamic resolution on PS4/Xbone and the fact that's not pushing a lot of complex physics/AI/etc.

As such, I don't see why it couldn't run at 60fps on Switch if the devs made the necessary cutbacks to resolution and other graphics settings. That's not to say that it will necessarily, it all depends on how high a priority the devs have placed on framerate and how much they're willing to work and sacrifice to get there.



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NATO said:
Miyamotoo said:

So we talking about huge differences if we talk about playing some game on Switch in full handheld mode compared to playing some game on other platform in portable mode. With Switch, you get full home console and full handheld experience with one device, and you getting that without streaming or need for internet connection, and thats actualy huge advantage for games on Switch compared to same games on PS4/XB1/PC.

But it isn't, the portability is only a "big deal" when fans of the switch are talking about it, for indies and 2d games that may be the case since the game doesnt have to suffer in the translation and can add it's own portable flair to it with device-specific changes to the gameplay.

But to everyone else, who already played and beat doom on pc, ps4 or xbox one, ask them "do you want to play the game again on a portable" the answer from most would be no, and the few that would, all of the streaming options for those users, are cheaper than buying a switch+doom, sure it isn't running natively on a handheld but that has as many advantages as it does disadvantages.

disadvantages:
Requires stable net connection
Requires the game be running on your pc/console that's also connected to the net

advantages:
Can be played for longer, since streaming uses less power than running natively
Can be played at the original graphical quality, no downgrade to textures, geometry, etc.

With the exception of the Vita, most PC/XB/PS owners also already own a device that can, either directly or with slight effort, be used to stream the game anyway, (smartphone is enough in most cases).

Pulling out the "but it's portable" card to salvage a situation when a game has clear downgrades/missing features isn't a magic bullet, it won't be at the best of times, but doing so on a fast paced FPS is even more of an issue, because FPs historically play poorly on handhelds.

Yes and Its big deal compared to PS4/XB1, for AAA games also, not just for Indie games, but of course Switch offers and full home console experience in same time.

Most people will say no, but again you would have plenty of people who would want to play games like Doom or Skyrim again in full handheld mode, or handheld lovers who didnt played those games at all.

You forget most biggest disadvantage, it require second hardware.

Switch is very easy and very simple in comparison, offers AAA games in full handheld mode out of box, you don't need any requirements, just Switch and game, so totaly difrent things. Downgraded 1080p game that runing on TV will still look great on 6.2" 720p screen, almost all Switch games are looking better in handheld mode than on TV ofcourse. Fact that some games will missing some mod or feature isn't deal breaker. Historically we never had neither full home console AAA game running on handheld, and now we already have games like full new 3D Zelda (actually biggest ever Zelda) or Skyrim.

 

 

fatslob-:O said:
Miyamotoo said:

Ofcourse I will, fact that you said that 2x slower CPU means 30FPS instead 60FPS proves you are dont know too much abut this staffs.

A 2x slower CPU does mean 30FPS instead of 60FPS unless there's a low enough overhead on the CPU side and we can see this with the majority of AAA games so far ... (The only current/cross-gen AAA game on the Switch that did maintain the same framerate as the home console versions was FIFA 18 so that means 4/5 current/cross-gen AAA games on the Switch has downgraded framerate.) 

Miyamotoo said:

Actually majority of AAA games on PS4 are 30FPS, 60FPS are mostly sport games, FPS and smaller games. I use Skyrim like example of one of AAA 3rd party games on Switch, and that "last gen" Skyrim is 30 FPS on PS4 also.

I am not denying that the majority of AAA games on the PS4 is 30FPS and you can you use Skyrim as much as you want since I was only arguing in specific to current/cross-gen AAA games ... 

Miyamotoo said:

Great you found 4 games, that still don't proves that ever PS4 60FPS games on Switch will run at 30 FPS. Stick to facts, we still dont know at what frame rate those games will work on Switch, and again that depends from devs and their priorities, better graphics or 60FPS.

You used Skyrim as an example since it's easily the lowbar when I was talking about current gen AAA games ... (Skyrim isn't even a cross-gen title, it's a last gen title with no next gen version in mind.) 

We don't know the framerate of those other AAA game ports but if I had to guess most of them will either end up with 30FPS or cut content/different gameplay mechanics ...

Lol, of course it doesnt mean, its no so simple, that 2x slower CPU automatically means 2x slower FPS. Again, why some game that are on PS4/XB1 30FPS on Switch are also 30FPS!? Offcourse that 30 FPS PS4/XB1 games will not run at 15 FPS on Switch, so like I wrote, it's up to devs and their priorities.

Again, I used Skyrim like example of one of AAA Switch games, yes it's remaster of last gen AAA game, but still is one of 3rd party AAA games that Switch has.

All of those games will have some downgrades, if that will be only graphic downgraded or FPS also we will see, and it's possible that some of them will have cutted some feature. Non of games until now dont have different gameplay mechanics, they are some games that missing mod, or some feature, or 30FPS instead 60FPS, but those things are not different gameplay mechanics.



Miyamotoo said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
There's a lot of games on PS4 that could be easily ported over to Switch. Persona 5, Ys VIII, Odin Sphere, Dragon Quest Builders, Yakuza 0, Yakuza Kiwimi. Switch isn't as powerful as the two main consoles, but it isn't a 360 or a PS3 either. There's a big difference between nearly no ram on PS3/360, and the 4GB ram on Switch.

If they can port Doom and Wolfenstein 2 that are true next gen games, they can literally port any other PS4/XB1 game to Switch. Its not point only about more RAM, Switch CPU and GPU architecture are very modern and much closer to PS4/XB1 architecture than PS3/Xbox360, they support all modern features and engines.

 

 

bonzobanana said:

That's the point I made previously and why we should be thankful to Capcom. They pushed Nintendo to go from 2GB Switch memory to 4GB stating they needed it to port many of their games. Nintendo accepted this and I feel many of these ports wouldn't be possible if that decision hadn't been made. The Switch cpu resources are less than 360 and PS3 and graphics in portable mode are less powerful in raw performance although the feature set is better. However games like Skyrim on ps3 and 350 were constantly having to shuffle memory around to get the game working creating frame drops when under load etc. They even have greater memory bandwidth than Switch but that is no substitute for having more memory. 

However saying that we haven't actually seen the final retail version of Skyrim on Switch so need to be cautious. It's quite possible the demonstration units we have seen had the Switch operating at docked performance level while portable hence the cables connected underneath. Bethesda may be hopeing to optimise to bring real portable performance to that level. I'm expecting it to be slightly dialed back for the retail version in portable mode.

 

Lol, you still refuse to accept fact that Switch is noticeable stronger than PS3/Xbox360. It's not only point about 6-8x more RAM, but also fact that Switch ARM CPU is much modern and much more subtitle for modern games that ancient PS3 CPU even if PS3 CPU on paper has more strength (PS3 CPU has more strengnt even PS4/XB1 CPUs in some parts, you refuse to accept that PS3 CPU/GPU are around 10 years older tech/architecture compared to Switch ones), talking about GPU, GPU is stronger and much more capable even in handheld mode, not to mentione docked mode.

We already know that Skyrim is working on portable mode in 720p and there is not FPS drops, thats most likly 1080p in docked mode, and thats actualy based on Special version of Skyrim. In comparison, first version of Skyrim runs at 720p on PS3/Xbox360. Also you dont need to look only at Skyrim, look Minecraft, look at Fifa, look at other 3rd party games that also exist on PS3/Xbox360, you will see that they are working at higher resolution on Switch (in most cases 1080p vs 720p on PS3/Xbox360). Switch currently hardly has any game that runs at 720p (they are 900p-1080p in most cases), while over 95% PS3/Xbox 360 games were 720p, that fact also tells you what is difference in power, and devs yet need to start taking out most of Switch hardware.

Lets wait to see how portable mode turns out. I certainly do feel there is a cpu deficit in the Switch design but only by the ratio I have already stated based on benchmarks and evidence. We don't know how much dynamic resolution is being used or seen final retail code. It doesn't matter about age only peformance. The wii u was based on later technology but often performed below ps3/360 levels because it was low performance costed hardware. Again we had all this before with Nintendo fans claiming wii and wii u were more powerful than they were but the facts got through in the end and those fans were shown to be incorrect. Lets not forget not only do they have to make the game run at a much lower performance level in portable mode but give reasonable battery life too. There may be other power saving issues we haven't seen yet that the retail code will get. Again this is all premature we need to see final retail code. There are also other factors like compression on cartridges. Rayman Legends has a lower frame rate and inferior graphcs on Switch than wii u. Not because of any shortfall in Switch performance but because of minimising file size with heavy compression. That could also be a factor with larger games like this for retail code. It's naive in the extreme to base performance on what publishers and developers want you to see before the game is launched. 

Also I've been writing in the past about the Switch being capable of running VR versions of many 360 and PS3 games if a VR headset becomes available for Switch like the Nintendo patents. I'm fully aware of the superiority of Switch over 360 and PS3 in many areas. Admittedly I believe such a headset will be reliant on a power connection so it can run at docked performance level though.



bonzobanana said:
Miyamotoo said:

If they can port Doom and Wolfenstein 2 that are true next gen games, they can literally port any other PS4/XB1 game to Switch. Its not point only about more RAM, Switch CPU and GPU architecture are very modern and much closer to PS4/XB1 architecture than PS3/Xbox360, they support all modern features and engines.

 

 

Lol, you still refuse to accept fact that Switch is noticeable stronger than PS3/Xbox360. It's not only point about 6-8x more RAM, but also fact that Switch ARM CPU is much modern and much more subtitle for modern games that ancient PS3 CPU even if PS3 CPU on paper has more strength (PS3 CPU has more strengnt even PS4/XB1 CPUs in some parts, you refuse to accept that PS3 CPU/GPU are around 10 years older tech/architecture compared to Switch ones), talking about GPU, GPU is stronger and much more capable even in handheld mode, not to mentione docked mode.

We already know that Skyrim is working on portable mode in 720p and there is not FPS drops, thats most likly 1080p in docked mode, and thats actualy based on Special version of Skyrim. In comparison, first version of Skyrim runs at 720p on PS3/Xbox360. Also you dont need to look only at Skyrim, look Minecraft, look at Fifa, look at other 3rd party games that also exist on PS3/Xbox360, you will see that they are working at higher resolution on Switch (in most cases 1080p vs 720p on PS3/Xbox360). Switch currently hardly has any game that runs at 720p (they are 900p-1080p in most cases), while over 95% PS3/Xbox 360 games were 720p, that fact also tells you what is difference in power, and devs yet need to start taking out most of Switch hardware.

Lets wait to see how portable mode turns out. I certainly do feel there is a cpu deficit in the Switch design but only by the ratio I have already stated based on benchmarks and evidence. We don't know how much dynamic resolution is being used or seen final retail code. It doesn't matter about age only peformance. The wii u was based on later technology but often performed below ps3/360 levels because it was low performance costed hardware. Again we had all this before with Nintendo fans claiming wii and wii u were more powerful than they were but the facts got through in the end and those fans were shown to be incorrect. Lets not forget not only do they have to make the game run at a much lower performance level in portable mode but give reasonable battery life too. There may be other power saving issues we haven't seen yet that the retail code will get. Again this is all premature we need to see final retail code. There are also other factors like compression on cartridges. Rayman Legends has a lower frame rate and inferior graphcs on Switch than wii u. Not because of any shortfall in Switch performance but because of minimising file size with heavy compression. That could also be a factor with larger games like this for retail code. It's naive in the extreme to base performance on what publishers and developers want you to see before the game is launched. 

Also I've been writing in the past about the Switch being capable of running VR versions of many 360 and PS3 games if a VR headset becomes available for Switch like the Nintendo patents. I'm fully aware of the superiority of Switch over 360 and PS3 in many areas. Admittedly I believe such a headset will be reliant on a power connection so it can run at docked performance level though.

Fact that some multiplatform games were performed below PS3/360 is not prove that Wii U hardware is weaker, simple because devs learned to use most of PS3/360 hardware in 2012, while devs in 2012. were just started working on Wii U hardware and they stilld didnt learn to proparly use it not to mentione to use most of them. Just compare PS3/360 multi platform games from their first year 2005/2006 with multi platform games from 2012/2013, or Wii U multiplatform game from 2012. with  those PS3/Xbox360 games from 2005/2006. and you will get picture, we talking about night and day difference here (for isnstance CoD 3 from 2006. and CoD Black Ops 2 from 2012). And fact is that Wii U is more capable than PS3/Xbox360, Wii U has less capable CPU, but has more modern and capable GPU and 2-4x more RAM, so used in right way, Wii U hardware could achive more. Evrething we saw until now tells us how much more capibile Switch is compared to PS3/360/WiiU (again, Switch currently hardly has any game that runs at 720p (they are 900p-1080p in most cases), while only few were above 720p on PS3/Xbox360 and we actualy had plenty of sub HD games, that fact also tells you what is difference in power, and devs yet need to start taking out most of Switch hardware). Rayman Legends is heavily compressed on Switch and that's actually only game that has some miniuses compared to PS3/360/WiiU versions of games.

Nintendo definitely has some VR/AR plans with Switch, what exactly it remains to see, they definitely have lotsa a interesting ideas and patents.



Miyamotoo said:

while over 95% PS3/Xbox 360 games were 720p

Again, you're forgetting the huge number of games on PS3/360 that were sub-HD.



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curl-6 said:
Miyamotoo said:

while over 95% PS3/Xbox 360 games were 720p

Again, you're forgetting the huge number of games on PS3/360 that were sub-HD.

Again, my bad. :D



Miyamotoo said:

Fact that some multiplatform games were performed below PS3/360 is not prove that Wii U hardware is weaker, simple because devs learned to use most of PS3/360 hardware in 2012, while devs in 2012.

This is absolutely correct.
People forget that the Playstation 3 had inferior multiplatform ports compared to the Xbox 360 for a stupidly long time.
The Playstation 3 was also "technically superior" on paper.

Miyamotoo said:

And fact is that Wii U is more capable than PS3/Xbox360, Wii U has less capable CPU, but has more modern and capable GPU and 2-4x more RAM, so used in right way, Wii U hardware could achive more.

It was also a more efficient GPU capable of more effects.

The fact you even have to debate this in 2017 going on 2018 is pretty asanine in my opinion.

Miyamotoo said:

Evrething we saw until now tells us how much more capibile Switch is compared to PS3/360/WiiU (again, Switch currently hardly has any game that runs at 720p (they are 900p-1080p in most cases), while only few were above 720p on PS3/Xbox360 and we actualy had plenty of sub HD games, that fact also tells you what is difference in power, and devs yet need to start taking out most of Switch hardware). Rayman Legends is heavily compressed on Switch and that's actually only game that has some miniuses compared to PS3/360/WiiU versions of games.

The resolution of games isn't a determiner of how powerful a platform truly is. There were a fairly large amount of Original Xbox games that were 720P and 1080i, but I am pretty sure the Wii didn't have any games exceed 480P and should have been the console that was technically faster.

I have always said the Switch was a big step up over last gen, but also a step down from the current gen. The games have proven that, the hardware has told us that, this discussion has been done to death on these forums... If people havent seen the evidence (games) and still deny it all... Well. They are beyond convincing.

The Switch beats the Xbox 360, Wii U and Playstation 3 no contest.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

Fact that some multiplatform games were performed below PS3/360 is not prove that Wii U hardware is weaker, simple because devs learned to use most of PS3/360 hardware in 2012, while devs in 2012.

This is absolutely correct.
People forget that the Playstation 3 had inferior multiplatform ports compared to the Xbox 360 for a stupidly long time.
The Playstation 3 was also "technically superior" on paper.

Miyamotoo said:

And fact is that Wii U is more capable than PS3/Xbox360, Wii U has less capable CPU, but has more modern and capable GPU and 2-4x more RAM, so used in right way, Wii U hardware could achive more.

It was also a more efficient GPU capable of more effects.

The fact you even have to debate this in 2017 going on 2018 is pretty asanine in my opinion.

Miyamotoo said:

Evrething we saw until now tells us how much more capibile Switch is compared to PS3/360/WiiU (again, Switch currently hardly has any game that runs at 720p (they are 900p-1080p in most cases), while only few were above 720p on PS3/Xbox360 and we actualy had plenty of sub HD games, that fact also tells you what is difference in power, and devs yet need to start taking out most of Switch hardware). Rayman Legends is heavily compressed on Switch and that's actually only game that has some miniuses compared to PS3/360/WiiU versions of games.

The resolution of games isn't a determiner of how powerful a platform truly is. There were a fairly large amount of Original Xbox games that were 720P and 1080i, but I am pretty sure the Wii didn't have any games exceed 480P and should have been the console that was technically faster.

I have always said the Switch was a big step up over last gen, but also a step down from the current gen. The games have proven that, the hardware has told us that, this discussion has been done to death on these forums... If people havent seen the evidence (games) and still deny it all... Well. They are beyond convincing.

The Switch beats the Xbox 360, Wii U and Playstation 3 no contest.

Agree, for the record I used resolution like evidence only for same multiplatform games that exist on PS3/Xbox360 also, and where those same games on Switch work at higher resolution, have better graphic and frame rate.



Damn, if i didn't have potent laptop, i would consider this.



bonzobanana said:

Lets wait to see how portable mode turns out. I certainly do feel there is a cpu deficit in the Switch design but only by the ratio I have already stated based on benchmarks and evidence. We don't know how much dynamic resolution is being used or seen final retail code. It doesn't matter about age only peformance. The wii u was based on later technology but often performed below ps3/360 levels because it was low performance costed hardware. Again we had all this before with Nintendo fans claiming wii and wii u were more powerful than they were but the facts got through in the end and those fans were shown to be incorrect. Lets not forget not only do they have to make the game run at a much lower performance level in portable mode but give reasonable battery life too. There may be other power saving issues we haven't seen yet that the retail code will get. Again this is all premature we need to see final retail code. There are also other factors like compression on cartridges. Rayman Legends has a lower frame rate and inferior graphcs on Switch than wii u. Not because of any shortfall in Switch performance but because of minimising file size with heavy compression. That could also be a factor with larger games like this for retail code. It's naive in the extreme to base performance on what publishers and developers want you to see before the game is launched. 

Also I've been writing in the past about the Switch being capable of running VR versions of many 360 and PS3 games if a VR headset becomes available for Switch like the Nintendo patents. I'm fully aware of the superiority of Switch over 360 and PS3 in many areas. Admittedly I believe such a headset will be reliant on a power connection so it can run at docked performance level though.

I get that you still feel burned by the Wii U, and that you want to protect yourself from a repeat disappointment, but I think at this point it is safe to put aside any fears of Switch being weaker or on par with PS3/360/Wii U.

The specs and the games clearly show it's a step above. We're talking about a GPU a decade newer plus 6-8 times as much RAM.