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Forums - Politics Discussion - Terror attack in London

Puppyroach on 23 March 2017
celador said:
Puppyroach said:

I assume you were equally upset when a Christian terrorist murdered over 70 young Norwegian kids at a camp a few years ago?

I'm always upset when Europeans are needlessly killed

So it really upsets you then that Christians have so much power in the UK? They've had the main political power and influence for hundreds of years afterall.

Also, why are you angry that the mayor was a defence attorney for 911 terrorists? The right of everyone to get legal representation is a foundation in British democracy, no matter how vicious the crime might be.



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Puppyroach on 23 March 2017
UnderstatedCornHole said:
Flilix said:

This, we only seem to care about these things if it's a terrorist attack. If there are links with terrorism, it suddenly becomes big news, because we're so scared. That's pretty much what terrorists want, they want us to be scared.

It's big news if it's committed by a Muslim because someone murdering for make believe reasons and that's fucked up.

They don't give a shit if people are scared, they'll kill you either way.

Cut out the beta male subversion and stick to the topic.

But you know that's not true since if the terrorist was a Christian, newspaper would even hesitate to call the act terrorism, but rather discuss whether or not the person was mentally ill instead. The thing is that muslims are the target for the extreme right wing and muslim terrorists like this because it helps make some muslims feel distanced from society and then reach out to these terrorist organisations. And this is not unique in any way, it's a big explanation to how the KKK in the US has been able to recruit people and other right-wing terrorist organizations. It's just that muslims are a special target since the last 20 or so years.



Nogamez on 23 March 2017
Puppyroach said:
UnderstatedCornHole said:

It's big news if it's committed by a Muslim because someone murdering for make believe reasons and that's fucked up.

They don't give a shit if people are scared, they'll kill you either way.

Cut out the beta male subversion and stick to the topic.

But you know that's not true since if the terrorist was a Christian, newspaper would even hesitate to call the act terrorism, but rather discuss whether or not the person was mentally ill instead. The thing is that muslims are the target for the extreme right wing and muslim terrorists like this because it helps make some muslims feel distanced from society and then reach out to these terrorist organisations. And this is not unique in any way, it's a big explanation to how the KKK in the US has been able to recruit people and other right-wing terrorist organizations. It's just that muslims are a special target since the last 20 or so years.

You are completely missing the point here. If a Muslim,  drove into a crowd off people killing 3 and injuring 40,then jumped out and stopped a Police Officer, and under investigation was found to have no links to extremists or any particular negative views off western society then he would be considered mentally I'll.  Point is all these attacks are terrorist attacks because they are doing it to undermine and de stabilise western society. 



Lawlight on 23 March 2017
Pemalite said:
Lawlight said:

You can attack the source but surely you're not denying that a Muslim kid was holding that sign, right?

The difference between the Islamists and the far right groups is that the latter are drowned out by the pro-Islamist media. So much so that they are irrelevant. Plus, I never heard of the UPF until now - I had to google it. I only heard of Reclaim Australia. So I don't think both sides are equally guilty as one side is way more powerful and actually killed Australians.

United Patriots Front have a massive amount of support. It's Facebook page has more likes than Reclaim Australia. (116k vs 71k)

The media tends to "hush" about United Patriots Front because of it's extremist views. Yes. They are an extremist group.
Reclaim Australia is a little less extreme... They are buoyed by One Nation and the Australian Tea Party.

It's unacceptable for both sides to be acting as they are. Even the far left groups who counter-protest United Patriots Front and Reclaim Australia are taking things way to far.

The fact that you are willing to be apologetic towards the far-right groups under the belief that they aren't as "guilty" as their opposition is laughable. A kid holding a sign up is in contrast to United Patriots Front and Reclaim Australia Members planning the construction of bombs and carrying guns. - But the kid is more guilty? Puh-lease.

My point is, all the groups need to calm their tits and move on with life. I'm honestly sick of it all.

No offense but Islamists have killed in Australia in recent years. The far right haven't which is why I believe they are far less of a threat. Islamists also have a voice in Australia unlike the other side - another reason why I think the former is more of a threat.



Pemalite on 23 March 2017
Lawlight said:

No offense but Islamists have killed in Australia in recent years. The far right haven't which is why I believe they are far less of a threat. Islamists also have a voice in Australia unlike the other side - another reason why I think the former is more of a threat.

Islamist terrorists and a kid holding up a sign are completely seperate divides.

The far-right have commited tons of heinous crimes, attempted bombings, attempted murders...

Here. Let's go through SOME of them.

The Cronulla riots where a police officer stepped in and saved a couple of muslims from being beaten to death:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hero-cop-craig-campbell-left-behind-by-the-cronulla-riots-20160117-gm7j5r.html

Or when a man wielding a knife entered an islamic school threatening children with death:
http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2014/09/25/australian-muslims-shocked-afraid/

When Phillip Galea, anti-islamic extremist tried to bomb multiple left-wing premises:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/oct/31/victorian-extremist-phillip-galea-planned-to-bomb-leftwing-premises-police-say

Far-right extremists shooting into a Mosque:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-05-25/extremist-group-blamed-for-mosque-shooting/840108

Another far-righter tried to firebomb multiple Asian resturants:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2007/05/28/notorious-anti-asian-hate-movement-bites-the-dust/

The Leader also tried to kill the state attorney:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/30/1091080440331.html

Another far-righter tried to go on a murder spree at an Abortion Clinic with guns, kerosene:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/deluded-prolife-crusader-peter-james-knight-kills-guard-but-wanted-more-dead-after-he-brought-his-gun-and-hatred-to-an-abortion-clinic-in-melbourne/news-story/c5a432d3036f9d745640a3c02810dab9

And you are trying to convince me that the Far-Right aren't a Threat? Or at-the very least not-as-much of a Threat? Please.

The Far-Right also have a voice. You are forgetting Pauline Hanson's One Nation party... You know the far-right nutter who believes Climate Change is a hoax, that Aboriginals were cannibals, that Australia would be overrun by Asians, that Australia would be overrun by Muslims, insinuated that Aboriginals were all dole-bludgers, against same-sex marriage, that Africans bring in diseases to Australia.. I could go on.

So yes. The Far-Right most certainly have a voice in Australia.

Terrorism is a load of shit. But far-right terrorism/extremism is just as unacceptable as religious-fueled terrorism. People need to stop thinking that either is "okay". It's not.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Puppyroach on 23 March 2017
Nogamez said:
Puppyroach said:

But you know that's not true since if the terrorist was a Christian, newspaper would even hesitate to call the act terrorism, but rather discuss whether or not the person was mentally ill instead. The thing is that muslims are the target for the extreme right wing and muslim terrorists like this because it helps make some muslims feel distanced from society and then reach out to these terrorist organisations. And this is not unique in any way, it's a big explanation to how the KKK in the US has been able to recruit people and other right-wing terrorist organizations. It's just that muslims are a special target since the last 20 or so years.

You are completely missing the point here. If a Muslim,  drove into a crowd off people killing 3 and injuring 40,then jumped out and stopped a Police Officer, and under investigation was found to have no links to extremists or any particular negative views off western society then he would be considered mentally I'll.  Point is all these attacks are terrorist attacks because they are doing it to undermine and de stabilise western society. 

No, he wouldn´t and you know that´s not true. Also, you don´t need to be affiliated with an organization or have a negative view of the entire society to be a terrorist. Likewise, many terrorists are likely mentally ill, therefore more easily manipulated.

EDIT: A good example of this is the terror attack by a Christian extremist in 2011 that specifically attacked a political camp. The main focus during the intial trial was whether or not he was mentally ill, since he belived himself to be part of a crusade on a mission from templars. Yet, a muslim extremist that commits suicide in the hope of meeting a group of virgins is not usually subject to the same kind of investigation.



Pemalite on 23 March 2017
Puppyroach said:

No, he wouldn´t and you know that´s not true. Also, you don´t need to be affiliated with an organization or have a negative view of the entire society to be a terrorist. Likewise, many terrorists are likely mentally ill, therefore more easily manipulated.

Could be said that, anyone who attempts any kind of murder is mentally ill.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Puppyroach on 23 March 2017
Pemalite said:
Puppyroach said:

No, he wouldn´t and you know that´s not true. Also, you don´t need to be affiliated with an organization or have a negative view of the entire society to be a terrorist. Likewise, many terrorists are likely mentally ill, therefore more easily manipulated.

Could be said that, anyone who attempts any kind of murder is mentally ill.

Absolutely.



Eagle367 on 23 March 2017
Pemalite said:
Qwark said:

Western society is at an all time low if people like this can become major in London. I like Aboutaleb the major of Rotterdam who is a Muslim (and an Islamophobe according to Erdogan). Defending 911 however is some sick mentality for a London major to have.

I wouldn't use breakingisraelnews.com as evidence for anything, they believe that Earthquakes, Volcanoes, Fukushima, Blobs as evidence for the "end of days" and then uses Bible passages to justify their garbage.

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/85439/volcanoes-radioactive-fish-blob-north-pacific-seismic-rumblings-gearing-end-days/#IGvS9MkhUoTJOyBv.97

standard.co.uk has roots in tabloids. Aka. Fluff.
They provided zero citations for their claims, no supporting evidence.

I'm not saying it's inaccurate, just be weary of those specific sources of information... And make sure you have supportive evidence from other sources if you intend to believe it.

vivster said:

I'm pretty sure that you can get a gun and maybe even a full automatic rifle in any country if you know what you're doing. But that would require thought and effort. Traits absent in most terrorists.

You need "connections". Something that takes time. Especially in countries with excessively strong gun control like Australia.

 

foodfather said:
A lot of these incidents aren't quote on quote terror related though and certainly not immigration related. ISIS isn't behind it. Taliban isn't behind it etc.

There are some individuals in the Muslim community who genuinely have a crazy thirst for destruction, maiming and the defiling of western civilisation, in their own little way of course.

Are the Muslim groomers ( rotterham gang, google them) who molested hundreds of young girls and caused way more harm than any ISIS / extremist attack terrorists?

The part I find annoying is that a large segment of society cracks a massive tantrum whenever a Muslim does something wrong... Yet they let Christian, Buddhist, Jewish etc' acts of distasteful garbage slide. It's double standards.

Lawlight said:

It's not. Not sure why you would think I would post something fake :

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/children-with-beheading-signs-an-outrage-says-scipione-20120916-2602v.html

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/behead-sign-child-deemed-safe-as-mother-talks-to-police-20120917-26368.html

smh.com.au (Sydney Morning Herald) have very strong conservative views.

And if you have been paying attention... The extreme far-right neo-nazi group, The United Patriots Front and it's sister group Reclaim Australia haven't helped the situation either.
Both sides "bait" each other in the protests by holding up outlandish signs, doing obscene acts like lighting flags on fire... Stabbing dolls...
For example, The United Patriot Front, a member had all the ingredients ready to make a bomb, various members brought guns... You name it, for a group who is anti-muslim they have some very "terrorist-like" ideas.

My suggestion to you is to stand back, look at what both sides are doing. It's not pretty. Both are equally guilty of bullshittery.

As I said all human groups have shitty filth in them be they Muslims Christians atheists Americans Australians even scientists. Take any group and you can find varying degrees of filth in them. Ibwas also gonna chack the credibility of the site he referenced but you helped me. Point is even thousands out of a population of billion plus is a small percentage and most Muslims don't do these things no matter how much people want you to believe they do. The people who think stuff like Islam is evil have not had interaction with real muslims most of the time and like with any group, when you don't know them you fear them and hate them. The hateful rhetoric is used all around the world so that people don't realize that in us vs them scenarios the them are also normal people for the most part unless the them are terrorists of course. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Fei-Hung on 23 March 2017

Three points:

1) there is a difference in Khawarijites and Muslims as in Islam, similar to Ahmeddis they are not seen as Muslims due to their vast alternative view and practice of Islam. In the case of the Kawani, their views are vastly different due to their radical twisted beliefs and practices.

2) there were 2 terrorist attacks over the last 2 days. The London one and another where USA by mistake bombed a Syrian school killing dozens which has barely received any publicity.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/22/dozens-dead-in-us-led-syria-airstrike-al-mansoura

3) there must be a better way to honour the dead and injured than arguing on a forum.

Can I make a suggestion to the mods that we hold / create a fundraising page for a good cause so when something like this happens we respond in a positive way. Something like wishes for kids would be amazing.