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Forums - Politics Discussion - Jonathan Blow Speaks Out For Free Speech

The people on the left will never learn. The more you excuse violence to shut down free speech (and yes, free speech includes speech you dislike), that is all you get from these pathetic protestors. And the more violence that happens won't make the right cower, like you wish. It will only galvanize them to Trump and whoever the right puts up after him. Including people like me who didn't support Trump in the primary or election. And the more sensible people on the center-left will just join the right. Even if they don't 100% agree with them, they do 100% disagree with violent rioters that don't care who or what they hurt/destroy.



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I thought democracy ideology lead people to better live.



HollyGamer said:
I thought democracy ideology lead people to better live.

I think it's more valuable as a way of preserving peace in a society. By giving the power to the people, the people can choose (either directly or indirectly) how their country is run, so it's harder for one person to gain absolute power, and the people are also happier because they feel their voice matters. Like Winston Churchill has been said to put it: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." Democracy is a real nightmare, but I can't imagine a system that would realistically be any better.



Zkuq said:
HollyGamer said:
I thought democracy ideology lead people to better live.

I think it's more valuable as a way of preserving peace in a society. By giving the power to the people, the people can choose (either directly or indirectly) how their country is run, so it's harder for one person to gain absolute power, and the people are also happier because they feel their voice matters. Like Winston Churchill has been said to put it: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." Democracy is a real nightmare, but I can't imagine a system that would realistically be any better.

The thing is, the democracy that most people think of is actually representative democracy, which is a lot less democratic than direct democracy.



Zkuq said:
GribbleGrunger said:

What has he done that's so wrong? The only unpredictability and volatility I'm seeing is coming from the Left. I'm astonished the Right hasn't responded yet but you can bet when they do the media will be outraged.

He's undermined democracy, and he's also happily continued an executive order on immigration despite a federal judge finding it unlawful (i.e. he's acting against the law).

The accusation of "undermining democracy" is vague, at best. In what ways has he undermined democracy? For the most part, he's doing pretty much what he promised to do during the campaign (with the admitted notable exception of being "tough on Wall Street), and voters elected him on those promises. That sounds like upholding democracy to me, regardless of whether they're promises I would prefer not be followed through on.

He has not "followed through" on any executive orders that were found unconstitutional. He's challenged both of the recent federal rulings in court, which is well within the rights of a president (or any person). If you believe that a ruling is unfair, you have every right to appeal it (I can point to numerous examples where this same thing happened under the Bush and Obama administrations). It's not as if he continued to enforce the parts of the ban that were struck down before the recent ruling that kept the ban in place. Whether he'll continue to do so after the Seattle ruling that struck down the entire ban remains to be seen, but that's just it; it remains to be seen. You can't legitimately accuse him of doing something that he hasn't done yet.

I thoroughly dislike Trump, but waving wild accusations around with no specifics or evidence to back them up is beneficial to no one's cause.



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StarOcean said:
outlawauron said:

I would look up the definition of facist before you go on with that hyperbole.

The West is far too eager to label everything they dislike some sort of extreme pejorative term.

I'd consider him an emerging one with his current additude. I don't think this hyperbole is out of line with what others here post. Plus if I do feel as though he is one or becoming one, then I have every right to criticize him as one for having what I consider attributes of one. 

If Trump can use labels in order to get his way, it can used against him just as equally. 

You certainly have the right to critique him for having "attributes" of a fascist. With that said, if your reasoning for embracing hyperbole is "because Trump and some others do it as well," then you're merely stooping to their level.

So, assuming that your goal is to do more than just "be like Trump," what attributes or parts of his attitude indicate that he is a fascist to you? I'd be genuinely curious to hear.



I don't get how people can change their political view or political leaning because it's supported by some idiots. Sure condemn the idiots, but that made you change your stance? that's absurd to me.



The left has completely lost its moral high ground in the past years and advocating the assassination of Trump only reveals how ugly they really are. The left now has more in common with mind-controlled cultists then they do with any kind of legitimate political movement. You used to fight for women's rights to vote and to work, for black people to have basic human rights. You had men like Martin Luther King who had the option and the cause to turn to violence but instead choose peace and love to resolve grave social injustice. You fought against unjust wars like Iraq where lousy governments went to war over made up issues. What happened to you?

Now I look at the left calling for martial law and the assassination of a president who has barely been in office for two weeks. You spend your time calling a man a fascist and a racist who spent a significant part of his inaugural speech talking about how all Americans have the same color blood regardless of our race and how he wanted to unite the country (you haven't even given him a chance). Trump talks about uniting people while the left-wing media spends almost all of its time segregating people into black and white categories and talking about how angry we should all be. The feminists now spend their time sulking about vague concepts like rape culture and white male privilege while more women then men now earn university degrees and then they go on to completely ignore the massacre and mass sexual abuse of women in the middle east at the hands of a barbaric hyper-masculine culture. The left once held the moral high ground on war but now you are advocating open war with Russia over a vastly disproportionate issue such as hacking and of which you have seen zero proof (furthermore you are being informed by the same agency that told you that Iraq had WMDs).

The left has crossed the line from being the good guys on many issues to being outright bad. The left are starting riots, beating up women, trashing property while they accuse Trump of being Hitler. The left has far more in common with Hitler than Trump does right now, this is dangerous cultist mind control and if you support the left then you need to wake up and see the harm that you are causing right now. And remember, the only thing more dangerous then a stupid person is a smart person who chooses not to use their brain.



nuckles87 said:
Puppyroach said:
Wasn't it confirmed by both the police and the administration at Berkley that the demonstration was completely peaceful but that outsiders came specifically to cause a riot?

Yep.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/finger-pointing-after-milo-yiannopoulos-talk-at-uc-berkeley-scrapped-when-violence-breaks-out-at-peaceful-protest/

But it seems everyone is ignoring that to either tie the violence to protestors or advocate for political violence at protests. Not the first time this has happened at a protest either, to my understanding. 

The students protesting were just excercising their own free speech as well. Yeah, in our country Nazis allowed to say horrible hate speech. But you know what? Other people are allowed to protest that hate speech. A Nazi may have a right to say what he wants, but no one is obligated to give him a venue.

I don't support violence in political protests. But at least in this case, the protestors weren't the ones breaking and burning stuff.

Exactly! The focus should be to celebrate these students who actually used their 1st amendment rights and condemn the people who invaded the protest only to cause violence. Sadly republicans will use these assholes as an excuse to punish the peaceful protesters, which is just tragic.



VGPolyglot said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Depends, if that shut down that Milo, it was probably worth it. Violence is unfortunatly the only thing the far-right understands and they should not besurprised when they get it.

It's ironic that when poor people are getting poisoned in Flint, when blacks are getting shot to death by police, and when hates crimes are committed against Muslims, etc. they turn a blind eye, but when a window's destroyed everyone is in uproar because apparently property is a lot more important than people.

Violence is the only thing the left understand. They have proven over and over again. It is ironic when blacks are murdering police officers, the left try to find excuses and reasons on why it is not their fault. Let's not forget about the hate crimes committed by Muslims, why are those not condemned by the left? Shit happens and there are bad people on every side. Yet here you are trying to say oh this is ok because of this. That is bullshit. One wrong doesn't justify another.