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Forums - Movies & TV - Sony considering selling off TV and Movie business

The shareholders have been saying this for a long time now. Profit margins are small at best for T.V's. Mobile hurts them because they only make high end phones. Movies and music, everybody wants a piece of the pie now. there's been a few threads about this when Sony first started restructuring a few years ago.



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Guys, they're not talking about the TV division but the TV content which made shows such as Powerless. The actual TV division made $445M in profit last year.



binary solo said:
Lawlight said:

Mate, they lost massive amounts of money on Ghostbusters - that movie needed around $500M to break even. So not even close.

Other flops:

Magnificient Seven - another unneeded reboot. Massive losses.

Passengers.

Concussion - Will Smith's movies have been flops for years now.

Pride and Prejudice Zombies

The Brothers Grimsby

And this year started with another flop: Underworld.

Passengers will probably be OK, it's still in its box office run and international recepts are doing OK. Critically it's a flop though. Most importantly the production budget was pretty reasonable for a space Sci-fi movie so the pressure on box office gross was not too bad.

Underworld will pay for itself, but that's all. Relatively a flop, but with a cheap budget it doesn't need to break records to break even.

I'll certainly give you Brother's Grimsby. Unless they made that for $5 million it was a major financial failure.

I don't understand why Ghostbusters needed to make $500 million to break even. They must have horribly over spent on marketing, because production budget was high, but not outrageous.

Concussion was a bat bet, not because of Will Smith, but because the subject matter strikes at the heart of a national sport that is only really well known in North America, so the audience of greatest interest won't go see it because they don't want NFL seen in a bad light, and the rest of the world doesn't care enough to pay to see it. Should have been a TV movie, not a cinematic release. If there was a football movie that exposed a major health issue in players that was swept under the rug there might be a big enough international audience to make a $35 million budget viable. The movie could and should have been made for $10 million, and if Will Smith's salary was responsible for the budget being $35 million then he sure wasn't worth it.

When you crunch the numbers for all of Sony's 2016 releases, it's not that bad. Of the movies where production budget is known the total product budgets ad up to $675 million and the gross revenues total to $2.009Bn. That gives a revenue ratio of 2.98:1, without factoring in disc and digital sales. And then Sony make another $600 million from movies where the production budget isn't known (thanks to a big Chinese language hit that brought in $526 million from China). Most of those movies appear not to have large budgets, but they also have dismal revenues. But they had some movies with huge ROI's like Don't Breathe with $10 million production budget and $155 million global revenue.

I don't think Sony Pictures is gasping a dying breath, but more intelligent risk taking and better creative execution is needed to make it feel like a solid and long term sustainable unit.

Just please, I hope there is some kind of clause that if Sony Pictures is sold or otherwise goes out of business that Spider Man rights revert to Marvel and cannot be sold as part of Sony's going concern. Otherwise it's almost mandatory for Disney to be the ultimate buyer of Sony/Columbia. Problem is, SOny Pictures probably isn't worth a whole lot unless they can include the Spider Man rights in the deal.

It's because Ghostbusters had a production budget of $154M and around the same ballpark for marketing - that's about $250M spent on the movie. Knowing that the studio gets 50% of the US theatrical gross and 40% of the EU theatrical gross, we come up with the $500M. In fact, the director said so himself:

http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/paul-feig-ghostbusters-reboot-c-v-r.html

When you add up all the revenue for Sony movies in 201, it looks good versus the production budget. But keep in mind that marketing is a huge mark-up. A movie can have a $20M budget but the cost $100M to market. And that's why they lost a lot of money.



Lawlight said:
Nem said:

Certainly you mean the smaller companies that make movies no one cares about, because the big ones keep smashing records every year. 

Also, Sony pictures is just bad. Just think back at how they handled the Spiderman franchise and you see why they failed.

Records may be smashed (though Avatar's and Titanic's are still unbeaten) but so are the production and marketing budgets. The margins on film studios aren't as big as you'd think.

If it wasnt, they wouldn't be making multiple movies on the same cinematic universes every year. Everyone is jumping in on that. Even Universal.

If the movie is worth watching, people will pay to see it. I really don't agree that people seeing a movie in poor quality online = a missed sale. I think it wouldn't be a sale either way. So, i doubt that's affecting anyone majorly, but is no doubt a great excuse for failure.



Maybe their Emoji Movie or the wrestling all-star Surfs Up 2 can save them......yeah, they should probably just sell now.



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Nem said:
Lawlight said:

Records may be smashed (though Avatar's and Titanic's are still unbeaten) but so are the production and marketing budgets. The margins on film studios aren't as big as you'd think.

If it wasnt, they wouldn't be making multiple movies on the same cinematic universes every year. Everyone is jumping in on that. Even Universal.

If the movie is worth watching, people will pay to see it. I really don't agree that people seeing a movie in poor quality online = a missed sale. I think it wouldn't be a sale either way. So, i doubt that's affecting anyone majorly, but is no doubt a great excuse for failure.

Dude, why are you bringing up cinematic universes? As if mentioning that makes my post invalid. Margins on movies are low. They use them to sell merchandise mostly. Universal made a profit of $1.2B in FY 2015 despite have 3 movies in the billion dollar club.

In any case, I'm not sure what you are arguing.



KLXVER said:
Maybe their Emoji Movie or the wrestling all-star Surfs Up 2 can save them......yeah, they should probably just sell now.

The Barbie movie with Amy Schumer will save them.



Sony Pictures is desperately trying to come up with franchises (The Dark Tower, Jumanji reboot, Barbie, Emoji Movie, etc), but their main issue is their management.

Instead of nurturing these projects to make sure they're actually any good, they're being rushed out to capitalize on release dates. That's the main reason why the Ghostbusters reboot, Magnificent Seven, and Passengers, all under-performed last year. The casts, directors, writers are all there...but if they're not given enough time to refine their product, then you end up with costly disappointments.

Sony movies that did succeed last year (Don't Breathe, Sausage Party, The Shallows) all came out of nowhere to make a lot of money, probably because the execs at the top didn't think enough of them in the first place to fuck it all up.



If you want sound financial advice, don't listen to the bank or your stock holders. It might work out in the short term, but in the long term?
"Dropping dead weight" is one thing, but a lack of diversity will mean Sony will react very badly to shocks and sudden changes in the market.



Yea support only your console business, sure gonna work!