Quantcast
Why Trump supporters stand by debunked claim

Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Trump supporters stand by debunked claim

Mr Puggsly said:

Alcohol is already legal and has harsh penalties for using it illegally. Incase you weren't aware.

I find it hard to believe somebody that works a full time job can't seem to find an opportunity to eventually get a state ID. Again, you just expect too little of people.

One last time, I believe the required ID for voting should state ID or military ID. Those seem to be accepted in states requiring ID.

Are you really treating ACLU and KKK as equals? A terrible argument I could only get from a dem, the ACLU reflects the views of many left wing voters and politicis. The left does not repudiate ACLU, they support them. The right does repudiate the KKK, they're a fringe extremist group. More proof your arguments are weak.

I believe some democrats support the national ID, but I also believe much and maybe most wouldn't support it for reasons I listed.

Obama's immigration reform was more interested in amnesty. While Trump is more intersted in dealing with criminal illegals first then maybe we'll talk amnesty. Perhaps people didn't trust Obama because he wasn't tough enough on criminal illegals. I genuinely hope a reasonable solution is found during the Trump administration.

I lean right politically, but a lot of my social views are more libertarian. Not all dems support legalization of marijuana by the way. I'm in Arizona and legalization of marijuana lost big because dems didn't support it either.

Man, this is frustrating. My last response, and then I'm done. 

1. About alcohol: yes, I know it's legal. Hence the point of my comparison. Surely you didn't miss that point. Alcohol is way more detrimental to a person, much more damaging. Yet, it's legal, because we place the responsibility on the user and enact laws to punish those who are irresponsible. So, why is marijuana, which is medically safer in all aspects, illegal? The same arguments that keep alcohol legal logically make sense for marijuana

2. About IDs: you "find it hard to believe....."; for the last time, things that may not affect you, may affect others. You need to accept that. I don't expect too little of people. I'm empathetic to their position. Like I said, even I wasn't able to get an ID at first. You seem to lack that empathy. Just look at your statement saying you believe only state and military ID should be used. You are for more restrictive voter ID. Why is military ID ok, but not a college ID? Military ID doesn't show where you live at, and non-citizens can be in the military (albeit, they must be a green card holder). This falls right in line with Republicans finding out which IDs minority most often use, then making them ineligible to vote. 

3. About the ACLU: it seems you really think ACLU = Democratic platform. You really are misguided and stuck in your bubble, or at least, you only hear what you want to hear. Anyway, forget the KKK then. What about the Family Research Council? They lobby to make sure gays have absolutely 0 rights. They aren't "fringe". The Republican Party doesn't repudiate them. So that means their values represent the whole Republican Party, then. You look extremely silly when you say an interest group represents an entire party's values. You should know better. 

4. About National ID: it doesn't matter what you believe or how you feel. I've already given you the facts that show your belief on this issue is wrong. 

5. You'd think Democrats would be all for marijuana legalization, but as you've pointed out, Democrats in Arizona don't want it. Funny, just prior, you acted like everything was a monolith and because the ACLU is against National ID, and they're left wing, then all (or most) Democrats are against National ID. Yet, in your own backyard, there's proof that it's not a monolith on a particular issue. So, why is it that when the ACLU is against something, it means most Democrats are against it; but when actual Democratic voters in your state didn't support  marijuana, it's not indicative of the rest of Democrats (as many more Democrats are for its legalization)? I know I said I'm done after this, so I shouldn't end with a question....but the cognitive dissonance here is astounding. 



Around the Network
BMaker11 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Alcohol is already legal and has harsh penalties for using it illegally. Incase you weren't aware.

I find it hard to believe somebody that works a full time job can't seem to find an opportunity to eventually get a state ID. Again, you just expect too little of people.

One last time, I believe the required ID for voting should state ID or military ID. Those seem to be accepted in states requiring ID.

Are you really treating ACLU and KKK as equals? A terrible argument I could only get from a dem, the ACLU reflects the views of many left wing voters and politicis. The left does not repudiate ACLU, they support them. The right does repudiate the KKK, they're a fringe extremist group. More proof your arguments are weak.

I believe some democrats support the national ID, but I also believe much and maybe most wouldn't support it for reasons I listed.

Obama's immigration reform was more interested in amnesty. While Trump is more intersted in dealing with criminal illegals first then maybe we'll talk amnesty. Perhaps people didn't trust Obama because he wasn't tough enough on criminal illegals. I genuinely hope a reasonable solution is found during the Trump administration.

I lean right politically, but a lot of my social views are more libertarian. Not all dems support legalization of marijuana by the way. I'm in Arizona and legalization of marijuana lost big because dems didn't support it either.

Man, this is frustrating. My last response, and then I'm done. 

1. About alcohol: yes, I know it's legal. Hence the point of my comparison. Surely you didn't miss that point. Alcohol is way more detrimental to a person, much more damaging. Yet, it's legal, because we place the responsibility on the user and enact laws to punish those who are irresponsible. So, why is marijuana, which is medically safer in all aspects, illegal? The same arguments that keep alcohol legal logically make sense for marijuana

2. About IDs: you "find it hard to believe....."; for the last time, things that may not affect you, may affect others. You need to accept that. I don't expect too little of people. I'm empathetic to their position. Like I said, even I wasn't able to get an ID at first. You seem to lack that empathy. Just look at your statement saying you believe only state and military ID should be used. You are for more restrictive voter ID. Why is military ID ok, but not a college ID? Military ID doesn't show where you live at, and non-citizens can be in the military (albeit, they must be a green card holder). This falls right in line with Republicans finding out which IDs minority most often use, then making them ineligible to vote. 

3. About the ACLU: it seems you really think ACLU = Democratic platform. You really are misguided and stuck in your bubble, or at least, you only hear what you want to hear. Anyway, forget the KKK then. What about the Family Research Council? They lobby to make sure gays have absolutely 0 rights. They aren't "fringe". The Republican Party doesn't repudiate them. So that means their values represent the whole Republican Party, then. You look extremely silly when you say an interest group represents an entire party's values. You should know better. 

4. About National ID: it doesn't matter what you believe or how you feel. I've already given you the facts that show your belief on this issue is wrong. 

5. You'd think Democrats would be all for marijuana legalization, but as you've pointed out, Democrats in Arizona don't want it. Funny, just prior, you acted like everything was a monolith and because the ACLU is against National ID, and they're left wing, then all (or most) Democrats are against National ID. Yet, in your own backyard, there's proof that it's not a monolith on a particular issue. So, why is it that when the ACLU is against something, it means most Democrats are against it; but when actual Democratic voters in your state didn't support  marijuana, it's not indicative of the rest of Democrats (as many more Democrats are for its legalization)? I know I said I'm done after this, so I shouldn't end with a question....but the cognitive dissonance here is astounding. 

1. I don't disagree, remember I'd like to see it decriminalized. One of the biggest reasons I feel it wasn't leagalized in AZ was they wanted the tax revenue to go to schools. Its odd to discourage kids from doing marijuana while using that tax revenue to improve their schools. I think that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and AZ said, "No thanks, we don't want your drug money."

2. It might take a little time for people to get a state ID for reasons, but we should all get it done. I don't know why you think this is unreasonable, its just part of living your life in this country. Its something you use when getting a job as well.

3. In my opinion, based on a little research, the Family Research Council is a relatively small group that pushes the stuff you would expect from many Christians, left or right voters. I know democrats that support the same things as Family Research Council because of religious reasons. You're grasping at straws. You keep comparing ACLU with divisive groups. I believe the ACLU in allgned with the most left wing voters, just go look up their positions and its a lot of the same stuff Obama and HIlary push. Trump didn't get great support pushing christian or KKK values, he primarily ran as a populist that values western culture.

4. Hey, lets just wait and see how dems respond to such an idea in the future. When they hear its more government watching them and it would be a burden for the poor/minorities, it won't go well. It might require them to visit an office like state IDs! If you think state IDs are pain the ass, national IDs will be a disaster.

5. Again, part of the reason I feel marijuana legalization didn't pass in AZ was they wanted to give the drug money to schools. They should have started with decriminalization, not full blown legalization while giving kids drug money. ACLU from my understanding wants decriminalization.



Recently Completed
Crackdown 3
for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

deskpro2k3 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Since I don't like left wing policies in many cases, I'm glad republicans were there to stop him.

I believe things could have been worse.

The Republicans did a lot of things to slow down progress IMO, and Obama was dealt a bad hand to begin with when he first step into office but he played it the best way he could.

Are you glad the republicans shutdown the government because of Obama care?

Here is what happened From October 1 through 16, 2013.

Nearly 800,000 federal employees were out of work without pay.

Nonessential departments and employees were off work.

One man mowed the lawn outside the national monuments.

Veterans was pissed off, did not receive their benefits.

It cost the country $24 billion.


"You don't like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election," Obama said.

  surprise surprise. the republicans did.

For some reason I'm not bothered by federal employees being affected, we have too many. The country didn't fall apart. My hero Stossel has something to say about that... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAAKvdLmaN8

I feel for the veterans and its a shame they get impacted.

People don't care about the trillions we lose so I don't lose much sleep over $24 billion.



Recently Completed
Crackdown 3
for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

BMaker11 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Alcohol is already legal and has harsh penalties for using it illegally. Incase you weren't aware.

I find it hard to believe somebody that works a full time job can't seem to find an opportunity to eventually get a state ID. Again, you just expect too little of people.

One last time, I believe the required ID for voting should state ID or military ID. Those seem to be accepted in states requiring ID.

Are you really treating ACLU and KKK as equals? A terrible argument I could only get from a dem, the ACLU reflects the views of many left wing voters and politicis. The left does not repudiate ACLU, they support them. The right does repudiate the KKK, they're a fringe extremist group. More proof your arguments are weak.

I believe some democrats support the national ID, but I also believe much and maybe most wouldn't support it for reasons I listed.

Obama's immigration reform was more interested in amnesty. While Trump is more intersted in dealing with criminal illegals first then maybe we'll talk amnesty. Perhaps people didn't trust Obama because he wasn't tough enough on criminal illegals. I genuinely hope a reasonable solution is found during the Trump administration.

I lean right politically, but a lot of my social views are more libertarian. Not all dems support legalization of marijuana by the way. I'm in Arizona and legalization of marijuana lost big because dems didn't support it either.

Man, this is frustrating. My last response, and then I'm done. 

1. About alcohol: yes, I know it's legal. Hence the point of my comparison. Surely you didn't miss that point. Alcohol is way more detrimental to a person, much more damaging. Yet, it's legal, because we place the responsibility on the user and enact laws to punish those who are irresponsible. So, why is marijuana, which is medically safer in all aspects, illegal? The same arguments that keep alcohol legal logically make sense for marijuana

2. About IDs: you "find it hard to believe....."; for the last time, things that may not affect you, may affect others. You need to accept that. I don't expect too little of people. I'm empathetic to their position. Like I said, even I wasn't able to get an ID at first. You seem to lack that empathy. Just look at your statement saying you believe only state and military ID should be used. You are for more restrictive voter ID. Why is military ID ok, but not a college ID? Military ID doesn't show where you live at, and non-citizens can be in the military (albeit, they must be a green card holder). This falls right in line with Republicans finding out which IDs minority most often use, then making them ineligible to vote. 

3. About the ACLU: it seems you really think ACLU = Democratic platform. You really are misguided and stuck in your bubble, or at least, you only hear what you want to hear. Anyway, forget the KKK then. What about the Family Research Council? They lobby to make sure gays have absolutely 0 rights. They aren't "fringe". The Republican Party doesn't repudiate them. So that means their values represent the whole Republican Party, then. You look extremely silly when you say an interest group represents an entire party's values. You should know better. 

4. About National ID: it doesn't matter what you believe or how you feel. I've already given you the facts that show your belief on this issue is wrong. 

5. You'd think Democrats would be all for marijuana legalization, but as you've pointed out, Democrats in Arizona don't want it. Funny, just prior, you acted like everything was a monolith and because the ACLU is against National ID, and they're left wing, then all (or most) Democrats are against National ID. Yet, in your own backyard, there's proof that it's not a monolith on a particular issue. So, why is it that when the ACLU is against something, it means most Democrats are against it; but when actual Democratic voters in your state didn't support  marijuana, it's not indicative of the rest of Democrats (as many more Democrats are for its legalization)? I know I said I'm done after this, so I shouldn't end with a question....but the cognitive dissonance here is astounding. 

Just to help put this in to perspective. You are arguing with someone who finds it fine to rape women and kids, but objects to lawyers DEFENDING those that the rapist.

No, you didn't read that wrong. The act of rape is ok, DEFENDING rape is ok. Once you let that lack of logic sink in you will truly realize just how absolutely pointless this argument you are having is.

So having had several discussions I can agree it is highly frustrating and you absolutely should quit - if anything for your sanity. Although I found your posts informative and well written.



  • Deadliest mass shooting by an individual in US history (10/01/2017)
  • Deadliest high school shooting in US history (02/14/2018)
  • Deadliest massacre of Jews in US history (10/27/2018)
  • Political assassination attempt of TWO former presidents(and 10+ other people)  (10/23/2018 - and beyond)
the_dark_lewd said:
I've given up expecting facts to come out of politics.

Both sides just believe what they want to believe in the internet era. Is this really any worse than Hilary Clinton repeatedly lying about the gender wage gap to try and scare women into voting for her?

Do you think people truly care?

We're stuck with idiots, especially on the internet. have you seen how bad it is for youtube 'sources'? For liberals, we deal with the likes of Laci green, feminist frequency, etc. For conservatives we need to deal with the BS about how conservatives are somehow 'unique' and 'original' for having an opinion many people also share.

 

It's essential the adult version of your typical, petty 6 year old arguments. each side acts like the victim/knowledgeable person as they tear the other side, slowly killing each other and turning into heartless freaks with an agenda



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

Around the Network
Bandorr said:
BMaker11 said:

Man, this is frustrating. My last response, and then I'm done. 

1. About alcohol: yes, I know it's legal. Hence the point of my comparison. Surely you didn't miss that point. Alcohol is way more detrimental to a person, much more damaging. Yet, it's legal, because we place the responsibility on the user and enact laws to punish those who are irresponsible. So, why is marijuana, which is medically safer in all aspects, illegal? The same arguments that keep alcohol legal logically make sense for marijuana

2. About IDs: you "find it hard to believe....."; for the last time, things that may not affect you, may affect others. You need to accept that. I don't expect too little of people. I'm empathetic to their position. Like I said, even I wasn't able to get an ID at first. You seem to lack that empathy. Just look at your statement saying you believe only state and military ID should be used. You are for more restrictive voter ID. Why is military ID ok, but not a college ID? Military ID doesn't show where you live at, and non-citizens can be in the military (albeit, they must be a green card holder). This falls right in line with Republicans finding out which IDs minority most often use, then making them ineligible to vote. 

3. About the ACLU: it seems you really think ACLU = Democratic platform. You really are misguided and stuck in your bubble, or at least, you only hear what you want to hear. Anyway, forget the KKK then. What about the Family Research Council? They lobby to make sure gays have absolutely 0 rights. They aren't "fringe". The Republican Party doesn't repudiate them. So that means their values represent the whole Republican Party, then. You look extremely silly when you say an interest group represents an entire party's values. You should know better. 

4. About National ID: it doesn't matter what you believe or how you feel. I've already given you the facts that show your belief on this issue is wrong. 

5. You'd think Democrats would be all for marijuana legalization, but as you've pointed out, Democrats in Arizona don't want it. Funny, just prior, you acted like everything was a monolith and because the ACLU is against National ID, and they're left wing, then all (or most) Democrats are against National ID. Yet, in your own backyard, there's proof that it's not a monolith on a particular issue. So, why is it that when the ACLU is against something, it means most Democrats are against it; but when actual Democratic voters in your state didn't support  marijuana, it's not indicative of the rest of Democrats (as many more Democrats are for its legalization)? I know I said I'm done after this, so I shouldn't end with a question....but the cognitive dissonance here is astounding. 

Just to help put this in to perspective. You are arguing with someone who finds it fine to rape women and kids, but objects to lawyers DEFENDING those that the rapist.

No, you didn't read that wrong. The act of rape is ok, DEFENDING rape is ok. Once you let that lack of logic sink in you will truly realize just how absolutely pointless this argument you are having is.

So having had several discussions I can agree it is highly frustrating and you absolutely should quit - if anything for your sanity. Although I found your posts informative and well written.

woah. Not sure if such an opinion should slide so easily on VGChartz. I only checked the most recent page, so I didn't see anything about anyone supporting rape. if that's the case, I'm simply dumbfounded



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton said:
Bandorr said:

Just to help put this in to perspective. You are arguing with someone who finds it fine to rape women and kids, but objects to lawyers DEFENDING those that the rapist.

No, you didn't read that wrong. The act of rape is ok, DEFENDING rape is ok. Once you let that lack of logic sink in you will truly realize just how absolutely pointless this argument you are having is.

So having had several discussions I can agree it is highly frustrating and you absolutely should quit - if anything for your sanity. Although I found your posts informative and well written.

woah. Not sure if such an opinion should slide so easily on VGChartz. I only checked the most recent page, so I didn't see anything about anyone supporting rape. if that's the case, I'm simply dumbfounded

Different threads. It started first off the basis "what if". in which he said even IF trump guilty of rape he would still vote for trump.

That mutated into "well hilary defends rapist" as a reason to defame her. Such it got to the point where being assigned and FORCED to defend a rapist is an absolute sin - but raping women and children is perfectly fine.

I rather not de-rail this one any further so if you want to send me a message, I can try and find those quotes for you.



  • Deadliest mass shooting by an individual in US history (10/01/2017)
  • Deadliest high school shooting in US history (02/14/2018)
  • Deadliest massacre of Jews in US history (10/27/2018)
  • Political assassination attempt of TWO former presidents(and 10+ other people)  (10/23/2018 - and beyond)

this is funny and terribly sad at the same time



SpokenTruth said:
FunFan said:

This only proves that the states themselves are not at fault in these types of frauds, not that they don't happen.

 

Proof that it has happened in the past: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/

And an expert take on the matter in easy to understand terms (watch until the end):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSZsSwOrKk&t=1s

Of course it happens.  I never said otherwise.  What I debunked was the idea that 3 million illegal immigrants voted and that non-citizens can use special driver's licenses to register and vote.   Small pockets of voter fraud (from all parties) happens.  But this notion that it's only for the Democratic party, that 3 million voted for Clinton or that illegals can get a DL and then vote is spread by websites with an agenda or people that don't like researching what they share on the Internet. 

Its not spread on the internet. its spread by people in CA who have continually watched how illegals are given every right as a citizen. It comes from the fact that CA was called before even the east coast was, i mean why even bother to count votes right? Its from the fact that there are numerous cases of abuse all across the board in CA government. Since they lost our trust how can we believe anything they say. The news lost our trust as well. Its all a massive a joke. From what I have seen I would not be suprised at all if there were 3 million or more votes by illegals, just in CA. The real problem is that there is no way to know for sure, and that right there is the biggest failure of all.



thranx said:
SpokenTruth said:

Of course it happens.  I never said otherwise.  What I debunked was the idea that 3 million illegal immigrants voted and that non-citizens can use special driver's licenses to register and vote.   Small pockets of voter fraud (from all parties) happens.  But this notion that it's only for the Democratic party, that 3 million voted for Clinton or that illegals can get a DL and then vote is spread by websites with an agenda or people that don't like researching what they share on the Internet. 

Its not spread on the internet. its spread by people in CA who have continually watched how illegals are given every right as a citizen. It comes from the fact that CA was called before even the east coast was, i mean why even bother to count votes right? Its from the fact that there are numerous cases of abuse all across the board in CA government. Since they lost our trust how can we believe anything they say. The news lost our trust as well. Its all a massive a joke. From what I have seen I would not be suprised at all if there were 3 million or more votes by illegals, just in CA. The real problem is that there is no way to know for sure, and that right there is the biggest failure of all.

So you're going presume 3 million people illegally voted in California based on what exactly?  What data do you have to arrive at that figure?  Can you provide me with a scenario that even enables 3 million illegal votes?  You do realize that 12 million votes were cast in California and you are claiming that a full 25% were illegal votes.  That's 1 out of every 4 votes.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."