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JRPGfan said:
Faelco said:

 

0.999999 = 1 is wrong.

0.9999999.... = 1 is true. That 0.0000001 part doesn't exist with an infinity of 9.

 

It is basic mathematics, you can learn it in school (okay, it's more often teached as a "fun fact" in college or engineering schools), it's really well-known and established. 

You don't know how to prove that it is bad maths because it's not. You can find flaws in a demonstration of 0.99999.... = 1 but you will always find other ways to prove it, but not the contrary.

Example (I did'n't read the whole subject, sorry if already mentioned) :

1/3 = 0.333333333333...

3*(1/3) = 3*0.3333333333....

3*(1/3) = 1

3*0.3333333333333.... = 0.999999999999...

So 0.9999999999... = 1

Its just rounding it upwards.

It's not rounding. There is no use of rounding in the proofs present. They are exact, equal. Not rounded, almost, nearly.

there would be a infinite amount of 9s, but there would always also be a part missing.

 

The reason we can say 0.999999.... = 1 is because our minds cant comprehend infinity,

It's more like the other way around. The reason (some) people deny 0.999...=1 is because our minds can't comprehend infinity.



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JRPGfan said:

What Im saying is 0.9999999 = 1

is wrong.

Why?

Because you would always be missing that 0.000000001 part.

You can tell their not the same number on each side, by the fact that we re writeing them differntly.

 

In concept.... because we live in a physical world, where theres a limit to things, it could make practical sense.

However in math terms I think its wrong.

 

I think the proof is bad math.

I just dont know how to proove that its bad math.

The reason it seems like something is "missing" is because you're thinking of it like it's finite. Infinity doesn't work the same way. There is no missing piece, because, as soon as you try to subtract that "missing piece" from 1, you've made it a finite number, and your subtraction won't result in 0.999.... Your subtraction will result in a number that is finite. Infinity is just really weird, and not at all intuitive. For example: most people think that there is nothing bigger than infinity, but there are actually some infinities that are bigger than others (they're called different levels of infinity), and this leads to things like the fact that there are the same "number" of positive integers as there are positive AND negative integers combined, but there are "more" irrational numbers than there are positive and negative integers. Trying to use intuition just doesn't work, because all of our intuition is based on finite things, since, as you said, most of our experience is finite.

However, that doesnt' mean that infinity doesn't exist in a physical world. There are plenty of ways in which infinity manifests itself in a physical world. Time is probably the most common; there is also the age old problem of continuously traveling half the distance to a destination (if you always travel half the remaining distance, it will take you an infinite amount of steps to get there).



fatslob-:O said:

OP is correct! There will be no arguing that fact ... 

We can use an infinite series (assumed seceond semester calculus) to prove such or a simple algebraic proof in the OPs case ... 

Here's the inifinite series ...

Infinite series usually doesn't fly on videogame forums though



Maybe we should have a Pi counting competition thread on this website. Who can count the most digits in a row?



JRPGfan said:

Its just rounding it upwards.

there would be a infinite amount of 9s, but there would always also be a part missing.

 

The reason we can say 0.999999.... = 1 is because our minds cant comprehend infinity,

and it serves no practical perpose to not just accept 0.999... as 1.

 

That doesnt mean its true though.

1 is a perfect number, infinite 1.00000...

0.9999... isnt ever perfect, even if the 9s go on forever, and your mind cant comprehend there to be a differnce.

It starts out behinde, so even if it goes forever close to 1, it never is.

There is no part missing, that's the principe of an infinite series of numbers. 

 

Again and again, this is not a debate, it is a fact. The whole mathematics community agrees on that point, and there are lots of ways to prove it with any type of mathematics you want. It is not rounding it upwards. 

 

Read the Wiki page, really, everything is explained there, even the applications.

 

Or else we will come again to :

The lower primate in us still resists, saying: .999~ doesn't really represent a number, then, but a process. To find a number we have to halt the process, at which point the .999~ = 1 thing falls apart. Nonsense.[44]



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Well, it depends how you interpret things. We can't comprehend infinity because in my knowledge infinity doesn't exists.



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Davman said:

Well i don't blame him either just got confused for 1 sec.

In maths 0,99999... isn't equal to 1 thats all.

So you're not a mathematician, and if you really are, you should ask some questions to your original college ;)

 

The equality 0.999… = 1 has long been accepted by mathematicians and is part of general mathematical education.

 Nonetheless, some students find it sufficiently counterintuitive that they question or reject it.

Such skepticism is common enough that the difficulty of convincing them of the validity of this identity

has been the subject of several studies in mathematics education.



Teeqoz said:

Infinite series usually doesn't fly on videogame forums though

Just hope to god that there are some college/university math educated around these boards ...



Teeqoz said:

 

Platina said:
Math doesn't work that way

though it does look neat

[1/9]*9 = 1, not 0.999...                                     

Actually math does work that way. 

And 1/9*9=1=0.999...

1/9=0.111... you agree on this, right?

and 0.111...*9=0.999... you agree on this as well, right?

Now, since 0.111... = 1/9, and 0.111....*9=0.999... then 0.999....=1

You're working with infinite decimals so it's not the same. Feel free to write 0.99999.. on your math exam though!



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Faelco said:

Its even funnier to read these (I love the last one :D )

From the same article:

Although the real numbers form an extremely useful number system, the decision to interpret the notation "0.999…" as naming a real number is ultimately a convention, and Timothy Gowers argues in Mathematics: A Very Short Introduction that the resulting identity 0.999… = 1 is a convention as well:

However, it is by no means an arbitrary convention, because not adopting it forces one either to invent strange new objects or to abandon some of the familiar rules of arithmetic.[47]

A convention is the perfect word for it.  Plenty of examples are given where this is not accepted across all math systems.  That "lower primate" quote seems extremely narrow minded.