Ka-pi96 said: Yeah, that's some definite plot holes there. Especially what happened between the end of ep 6 and start of ep 7. I mean, they had a republic and everything yet they were still called 'the resistance'? Resistance implies they were rebelling against something, not representing an independant republic. A republic which we never even saw before they were effortlessly wiped out. Ya know, the death star worked because it was a weapon to be feared. It was powerful, but not overpowered. Their new weapon literally wiped out the entire republic in 1 shot? There's no realistic way they should be able to rebuild after that. The war should effectively be over. And yeah, there was some serious deus ex machina going on in there too, especially Rey. But hey, it never had any stupid annoying creatures so that's a plus

The resistance does not represent the republic.  Leia tried to convince the republic that the first order was a serious threat, but she got shut down, so she left to found the resistance.  When the Republic's capital was destroyed, the resistance had to step up and save the day.

As for the republic, it wasn't destroyed.  The republic is a pretty big thing, it's not located exclusively in one star system.  That's just their capital.  It's like if Russia nuked Washington DC.  It would be a huge blow, but it wouldn't completely destroy the US.  

The galaxy wasn't under the dark force control.  The First Order is basically a terrorist organization.  

Think about what happens in the real world when you take out a dictator like Sadaam Hussein.  Things don't just magically become fixed.  Other organizations try to fill the power vacuum.  That's what the new order is.  It's never stated or even implied that they control the galaxy.  They were operating beneath the radar while they built their weapon, then once they had it, they began more overt aggresion.

As for Rey being stronger than Kylo... she's really not.  We see her out-Jedi him twice.  The first time is when he was trying to read her mind.  She doesn't win the mental power because she's a better jedi, she wins it because Kylo is insecure and conflicted.  

The second time is when they get all lightsabery.  Two things to keep in mind here.  First off, Kylo just killed his dad.  He's going through some shit, and he's an emotional dude.  He's probably not emotionally 100%.  He's not physically 100% either.  The movie makes a point of establishing that Chewbacca's bowcaster fucks shit up.  It is basically a grenade launcher that directly hit Kylo, at a moment when he was especially vulnerable.  Then, Finn wore him down a bit.

Rey wasn't a match for Kylo, and she would have been murdered in a straight up fight.  That's why the deck had to be stacked.



I'm actually not a huge fan of the movie.  I saw it, I enjoyed it, but I have no desire to see it again.  That being said, people keep claiming there are plotholes and I'm just not seeing them.

I think the same thing now I did when I sat and watched it the first time: it's the worst "Star Wars" movie I've ever seen.

This is what happens when you take something like that, and give control of it over to entities like Disney and JJ Abrams. Say what you will about Lucas, and some of the criticisms are valid, there is not a chance in hell that HIS original story treatment for this new trilogy, you know....THE sequel trilogy stories that people have been wondering about and waiting for, for decades, WOULDN'T have been a lot better than the pile of vague, cliched, ripoff, fan-service garbage that Abrams and Co. concocted.

Oh but Lawrence Kasdan was involved, you say? So what. Lucas was the brainchild behind every single thing that you love about the original Star Wars trilogy, period. A lot of people helped him make it, yes. But he was THE brain behind it all. Just like he was the creative power behind the Indiana Jones movies. Anything that isn't what he wrote for this new trilogy, was never going to manage to be anything but fan fiction. The only question remained, would be GOOD or even OKAY fan fiction? Or would it be really bad fan fiction?

I hoped for the latter. But I fully expected the former, because it's Abrams. And sadly, I wound up being right.

I cannot even conceive how anyone could call "The Force Awakens" a good movie, let alone a great one. It wasn't. The acting, the writing, the pacing, the constant slapping the audience in the face with "GET IT, just like the OLD movies" moments......not even bothering to come up with a remotely original story, and the ripoff plot elements they DID come up with, being outright rancid.

"THIS time, we're gonna have an even BIGGER Death Star, and instead of one BIG laser, it's gonna shoot a laser that splits into FIVE lasers, and they're going to somehow magically be able to span across the galaxy, and be seen from far away planets, and the Death Star itself is going to BE one big planet......"

That literally sounds like horrible fan fiction conceived by a 14 year old on the internet. Even the title, "The Force Awakens", was a major warning bell that something was amiss. It's a gibberish title that means literally nothing. The Force is the universe itself, it is life and energy and moves through everything. It never sleeps nor wakes. The subtitle for every other Star Wars film makes perfect sense and points directly to the base plot point of each film. "The Force Awakens", is just a title that Abrams or whoever else thought sounded cool, and thus used.

They presented easily the worst Star Wars villain in history thus far, a non-compelling, non-threatening man-baby who winds up (SPOILERS) getting beaten by two people who have zero experience with light sabers or the force, whereas he's supposed to have years of both Jedi, and presumably Sith-esque training. His light saber was, again, something that someone (probably Abrams) thought would "look cool". Every single decision in the movie reeks of something the filmmakers thought would be cool, or would get a pandering fan reaction. They were banking on how much some nerds just HATE the prequel trilogy, SO much blind hate in fact, that they would cheer anything that even remotely resembled the old films. And that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what I experienced in the theater, was people clapping and cheering for such insipid moments and lines as "Does it have a trash compactor?" and "That's not how the Force works".

The more I thought about it after seeing it, as much as I had WANTED to like this movie.....it just is downright unlikable. Now don't get me wrong, there are certainly ways that they could have taken SOME of this exact same material, minus a few retarded elements (such as the SUPERMEGADEATHSTAR), and it COULD have been an okay film/story. For one thing, don't just have the girl magically be able to do things right when she miraculously, conveniently needs to do them. That's not how it worked for any other Force-sensitive character in the other films, that's not how it should work with her. She should have to work at it, BEFORE she gets trained by Luke, she should be raw, and just barely manage to survive. We should see her POTENTIAL. We should not see her miraculously kicking people's asses in the first film, because, you know, "Girl Power".

The Storm Trooper character was hot garbage. He was the comedy relief, and a coward. If they had wanted to make a compelling arc for him, they SHOULD have gone with the angle that, as stated in the film itself, he was taken from his family as a child, and has spent the rest of his life being brainwashed. He likely has ALREADY killed and done bad thing in the name of the order, because he's a controlled soldier. He finally managed to crack, and rebel. But the rest of the film should see him not only being haunted by his past and the things he's done, but STILL continuing to struggle to do the right thing, and struggle AGAINST his killer conditioning, for the whole rest of the story. At the END, he should finally overcome it, and do the right thing, and help save the day in a key moment. THAT would have been compelling, and even somewhat satisfying. What they did instead, was purely moronic.

The so-called "First Order" should have been a rag-tag group, guerilla warfare style, hitting and running all the time, they should have been the new evil version of the Rebellion, if you even HAVE to go in such a blatant copy-cat route. They hsould have had very little resources to work with, basically like modern day Earth terrorists, and they CERTAINLY should not have had the resources to turn an entire goddamn PLANET, into a new ULTRAMEGADEATHSTAR. There should have never been another Death Star to begin with. That was an original trilogy plot device and should have remained so. And the very idea of transforming a living planet into a giant gun, is beyond stupid in the first place. Again....bad fan fiction.

And Kylo Ren? He should have been scary. He should have been threatening. He should have been conflicted or still struggling with his decisions inside? Sure. But we should be given even ONE actual reason for his turn to the Dark Side, which we are not. And he should be a bad ass. He should not thrown child-like temper tantrums. And he certainly should have had zero trouble kicking the living shit out of Finn in about 3 seconds. Finn should have had zero chance fighting him, having zero Force power and zero saber training. And Rey? It would have been compelling for her to hold her own for any amount of time against a trained killer like him. She should have ultimately just managed to survive, and just manage to escape with Finn. That way, Kylo still has even 1% of credibility left, and she has a ready-made arc where she was NOT ready to fight a Jedi/Sith, but once she goes and trains for some time, then faces him somewhere down the road, she WILL be ready.

Instead, what we're left with, is a huge mess. I want to believe that maybe Ep 8 and 9 will be better, will be okay, especially since Abrams will not be doing them. But....honestly? The foundation Ep. 7 already set is SO bad, SUCH a mess....that I have very little hope or faith. And there is not a doubt in my mind that Lucas' original stories for this trilogy, and Lucas being there as a consultant telling them "yes this would happen" or "no that's dumb", would have resulted in a FAR better movie. I would love to be wrong. I would love for Ep. 8 and 9 to somehow save the trilogy, and I could just chalk Ep 7 up to Abrams being one of the worst things to happen to film. But as it stands now, the entire things is likely going to, sadly, awful. And for all their faults, yes, the Prequel Trilogy will stand out as having been far better films, let alone Star Wars films. People can have their gripes with them, and with Lucas, all they want, but at least the prequels were original, told the story they needed to, and managed to do their job, which was filling out more of the Star Wars universe and it's back-story.

I'm a huge SW fan as well. Seen all 6 films multiple times and when I saw 7 for the first I liked it, though the similarities to 4 made it a little dissapointing. When I saw it a 2nd time, my opinion did not change, I still think it's a good movie, but I do believe it could have been something more special if they tried a new approach and not try to recreate what the original did.

I was really disappointed by this "remake" of ANH. I'll keep seeing The Truce at Bakura and the Thrawn trilogy as the true aftermath and sequel to Star Wars, no this horrible film,

You like the prequels. I just can't and won't take you seriously! I enjoyed them too in my youth. Less so now but.... Pod racing, right? Battle of fates!

Anyway, I think it's split the trilogies. It's no empire but it's certainly much, much better than attack of the clones. I saw it 3 times in the cinema. People complain about lack of info on the resistance and Republic but.... What did we know after a new hope? Far less. We knew there was a galactic senate that got disbanded. No explanation as to why either so sthu internet. It's a stupid complaint, really.

Especially so when considered it's the opening of a trilogy or more. Of course you're not going to know it all.

Episode 7 was good, not excellent, not shit. Simply good. I'll take that over the prequels and hope the bar is raised again next time.

ironmanDX said: You like the prequels. I just can't and won't take you seriously! I enjoyed them too in my youth. Less so now but.... Pod racing, right? Battle of fates! Anyway, I think it's split the trilogies. It's no empire but it's certainly much, much better than attack of the clones. I saw it 3 times in the cinema. People complain about lack of info on the resistance and Republic but.... What did we know after a new hope? Far less. We knew there was a galactic senate that got disbanded. No explanation as to why either so sthu internet. It's a stupid complaint, really. Especially so when considered it's the opening of a trilogy or more. Of course you're not going to know it all. Episode 7 was good, not excellent, not shit. Simply good. I'll take that over the prequels and hope the bar is raised again next time.

That doesn't make up for the terrible characters. I think they should reboot this mess and make a more grounded, mature Star Wars movie.

ironmanDX said: You like the prequels. I just can't and won't take you seriously! I enjoyed them too in my youth. Less so now but.... Pod racing, right? Battle of fates! Anyway, I think it's split the trilogies. It's no empire but it's certainly much, much better than attack of the clones. I saw it 3 times in the cinema. People complain about lack of info on the resistance and Republic but.... What did we know after a new hope? Far less. We knew there was a galactic senate that got disbanded. No explanation as to why either so sthu internet. It's a stupid complaint, really. Especially so when considered it's the opening of a trilogy or more. Of course you're not going to know it all. Episode 7 was good, not excellent, not shit. Simply good. I'll take that over the prequels and hope the bar is raised again next time.

Not the same. Episode IV was the first movie. Episode VII is the 7th film that borrows the characters from the last three and continues it. There's zero excuse for Episode VII, althought I can understand what they are trying to do...

Op:

Episode I - Pod racers, Darth Maul battle, Duel of Fates.

Episode II - Coruscant night chase, Execution Arena. (I like the movie but have to admit it is the weakest of the first 6 in terms of epic moments)

Episode III - Darth Vader, Darth Plegueis story, Darth Sidiuos, Yoda vs the Emperor, Luke and Leia childborn, Order 66

Episode IV - The force theme, Obi Wan vs Vader, Obi Wan death, the rescue of princess Leia, Luke destroys de Death star.

Episode V - Luke discovers the joker green as Master Yoda, Lando betrays Han, Luke vs Vader lightsaber duel, I am your father, Leia saves Luke, Han is frozen.

Episode VI - Luke saves the day in Jabba's killer party, Leia kills Jaba, Luke vs Vader, Vader kills the emperor, Luke sees his father face before die.

Episode VII - Voldemort is trying to use a childish Vader copy to kill Harry Skywalker.

Honestly, I'm looking for episode VIII but having more fun with theories and rumors. Darth Jar Jar is a good example.

Lawlight said: ironmanDX said: You like the prequels. I just can't and won't take you seriously! I enjoyed them too in my youth. Less so now but.... Pod racing, right? Battle of fates! Anyway, I think it's split the trilogies. It's no empire but it's certainly much, much better than attack of the clones. I saw it 3 times in the cinema. People complain about lack of info on the resistance and Republic but.... What did we know after a new hope? Far less. We knew there was a galactic senate that got disbanded. No explanation as to why either so sthu internet. It's a stupid complaint, really. Especially so when considered it's the opening of a trilogy or more. Of course you're not going to know it all. Episode 7 was good, not excellent, not shit. Simply good. I'll take that over the prequels and hope the bar is raised again next time. That doesn't make up for the terrible characters. I think they should reboot this mess and make a more grounded, mature Star Wars movie.

So, go with the current dark and gritty trend? Na, it's star wars. Who specifically are you referring to?

Rey is a bit... OP imo but apart from that I thought the characters were fine.

Pavolink said: ironmanDX said: You like the prequels. I just can't and won't take you seriously! I enjoyed them too in my youth. Less so now but.... Pod racing, right? Battle of fates! Anyway, I think it's split the trilogies. It's no empire but it's certainly much, much better than attack of the clones. I saw it 3 times in the cinema. People complain about lack of info on the resistance and Republic but.... What did we know after a new hope? Far less. We knew there was a galactic senate that got disbanded. No explanation as to why either so sthu internet. It's a stupid complaint, really. Especially so when considered it's the opening of a trilogy or more. Of course you're not going to know it all. Episode 7 was good, not excellent, not shit. Simply good. I'll take that over the prequels and hope the bar is raised again next time. Not the same. Episode IV was the first movie. Episode VII is the 7th film that borrows the characters from the last three and continues it. There's zero excuse for Episode VII, althought I can understand what they are trying to do...   Op: Episode I - Pod racers, Darth Maul battle, Duel of Fates. Episode II - Coruscant night chase, Execution Arena. (I like the movie but have to admit it is the weakest of the first 6 in terms of epic moments) Episode III - Darth Vader, Darth Plegueis story, Darth Sidiuos, Yoda vs the Emperor, Luke and Leia childborn, Order 66 Episode IV - The force theme, Obi Wan vs Vader, Obi Wan death, the rescue of princess Leia, Luke destroys de Death star. Episode V - Luke discovers the joker green as Master Yoda, Lando betrays Han, Luke vs Vader lightsaber duel, I am your father, Leia saves Luke, Han is frozen. Episode VI - Luke saves the day in Jabba's killer party, Leia kills Jaba, Luke vs Vader, Vader kills the emperor, Luke sees his father face before die.   Episode VII - Voldemort is trying to use a childish Vader copy to kill Harry Skywalker. Honestly, I'm looking for episode VIII but having more fun with theories and rumors. Darth Jar Jar is a good example.

You admit that episode 2 has the least amount of epic moments but purposefully make episode 7 sound worse than that. 

I'm at work so I don't have time. This isn't the discussion I'm looking for. Move along. 

I especifically said from the first 6 movies. And of course you want to move along, there's zero epic scenes on episode 7 to refute my comment.