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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft Acquires Havoc

GribbleGrunger said:
theprof00 said:
So they're going with engine studios that bring in monetization of gaming, rather than new games?
Appears to be a withdrawal.
Like, "it's worth more to us to make money on your games, than our games"
Just a thought.

Yep, I couldn't help thinking that myself. I look at their lacklustre bundles for Christmas, their acquisition of this and Minecraft and think 'this could be it you know.' Make money, not games.

I like the bundles. I want two of them :P



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

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sasquatchmontana said:
Zekkyou said:
sasquatchmontana said:

Another massive first party acquisition. Looks like Xbox 1 multiplats will have vastly superior animation, destruction, cloth and water physics.

AMD's on lock now.

I think it's pretty unlikely that MS are going to be locking out anyone in the console space from using Havoc. As others have mentioned, these companies don't live in isolated bubbles. Even when they're competing against each other, they're still more than happy to work together if it will make them money (which Havoc will).

Well i'm not suggesting MS will prevent other developers from using vanilla Havoc, I am however suggesting Xbox One (and possibly W10) will have an extra Havoc option of offloading to the cloud. Now they're in the middleware, own the middleware, they can change the middleware and make it a default option. There's little reason why Call of Duty could not go full CRACKDOWN 3 and offer a NEW MARKETABLE DESTRUCTION MODE when it's a mouseclick away....and that suits MS because it makes XB1 CoD look better and furthers mmmmm PENETRATION of their Cloud endeavours.

I can't really see that happening. Developers have shown a pretty clear desire to avoid core variations between the PS4 and X1 versions of their games (with some even activity targeting parity), and i can't see that changing soon. Maybe some would opt in if MS threw enough money at it, but i doubt it would really accomplish much.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see ^^



Eh, I can only think of one or two instances where Nintendo used licensed engines. I think they used Havoc's physics engine for Brawl and Xenoblade also uses a licensed engine.



Machiavellian said:
theprof00 said:
So they're going with engine studios that bring in monetization of gaming, rather than new games?
Appears to be a withdrawal.
Like, "it's worth more to us to make money on your games, than our games"
Just a thought.

Could it be that they are trying to develop their own cloud physics engine instead of licensing the tech from CloudGine so that they can add those tools to their SDKs.  If physics is going to be a big component of cloud compute it really makes sense to get a leg up on developing those tools if you want to sell the tech to developers and making it easy for them to include within their games.

Oh of course, that's true. I'm not saying there isn't another explanation.

I just think that maybe, just maybe there's something there. Like, if we look into it, we see several reasons for the purchase.
So they don't have to license someone elses tech, keeps money in their own pocket.
Helps their cloud compute platform, which they can monetize to developers.
Gives developers on ms platform a physics engine to use within their package.

So, I mean, one question is, does this incentivize making games exclusively for xbox? I'd say no, right?
Because either way, an exclusive dev is going to have all the tools they need already. I just don't see this being a "games oriented" purchase.
I see it as a platform distributor purchase, which is what it comes off as.

If this isn't to bring in more exclusives (which at this point, is not going to help, given the install base discrepancy, tbh), then where is MS focused?
I would say, instead of focusing on bringing games to xbox, they are more concerned with infrastucture.

It's like instead of investing in netflix, you invest in a codec that is used in every settop that uses streaming. You know?
Netflix is a content developer/media platform.
a codec would be infrastructure.



theprof00 said:
Machiavellian said:
theprof00 said:
So they're going with engine studios that bring in monetization of gaming, rather than new games?
Appears to be a withdrawal.
Like, "it's worth more to us to make money on your games, than our games"
Just a thought.

Could it be that they are trying to develop their own cloud physics engine instead of licensing the tech from CloudGine so that they can add those tools to their SDKs.  If physics is going to be a big component of cloud compute it really makes sense to get a leg up on developing those tools if you want to sell the tech to developers and making it easy for them to include within their games.

Oh of course, that's true. I'm not saying there isn't another explanation.

I just think that maybe, just maybe there's something there. Like, if we look into it, we see several reasons for the purchase.
So they don't have to license someone elses tech, keeps money in their own pocket.
Helps their cloud compute platform, which they can monetize to developers.
Gives developers on ms platform a physics engine to use within their package.

So, I mean, one question is, does this incentivize making games exclusively for xbox? I'd say no, right?
Because either way, an exclusive dev is going to have all the tools they need already. I just don't see this being a "games oriented" purchase.
I see it as a platform distributor purchase, which is what it comes off as.

If this isn't to bring in more exclusives (which at this point, is not going to help, given the install base discrepancy, tbh), then where is MS focused?
I would say, instead of focusing on bringing games to xbox, they are more concerned with infrastucture.

It's like instead of investing in netflix, you invest in a codec that is used in every settop that uses streaming. You know?
Netflix is a content developer/media platform.
a codec would be infrastructure.

What MS do is separate to Xbox. MS invest in infrastuctures while Xbox bring in the games etc. Xbox sole focus is games and entertainment.



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sasquatchmontana said:
Zekkyou said:
sasquatchmontana said:

Another massive first party acquisition. Looks like Xbox 1 multiplats will have vastly superior animation, destruction, cloth and water physics.

AMD's on lock now.

I think it's pretty unlikely that MS are going to be locking out anyone in the console space from using Havoc. As others have mentioned, these companies don't live in isolated bubbles. Even when they're competing against each other, they're still more than happy to work together if it will make them money (which Havoc will).

Well i'm not suggesting MS will prevent other developers from using vanilla Havoc, I am however suggesting Xbox One (and possibly W10) will have an extra Havoc option of offloading to the cloud. Now they're in the middleware, own the middleware, they can change the middleware and make it a default option. There's little reason why Call of Duty could not go full CRACKDOWN 3 and offer a NEW MARKETABLE DESTRUCTION MODE when it's a mouseclick away....and that suits MS because it makes XB1 CoD look better and furthers mmmmm PENETRATION of their Cloud endeavours.

Naw I doubt that MS will have some special option to offload to the cloud just for their games.  Instead, MS will offer the ability to offload to the cloud to every developer that wants to use it.  Of course the cloud will be Azure and it will be another piece in their puzzle to get every developer using their cloud services.  

I actually would say that you are not thinking this through very well and and not looking at the total picture or how this integrates with what MS does as a software company.  MS is a tools and service company which is the position their new leader has stated and is positioning MS for the future.  For MS as a company its way better to get everyone on their tools and services then making Halo look better than COD.



theprof00 said:

Oh of course, that's true. I'm not saying there isn't another explanation.

I just think that maybe, just maybe there's something there. Like, if we look into it, we see several reasons for the purchase.
So they don't have to license someone elses tech, keeps money in their own pocket.
Helps their cloud compute platform, which they can monetize to developers.
Gives developers on ms platform a physics engine to use within their package.

So, I mean, one question is, does this incentivize making games exclusively for xbox? I'd say no, right?
Because either way, an exclusive dev is going to have all the tools they need already. I just don't see this being a "games oriented" purchase.
I see it as a platform distributor purchase, which is what it comes off as.

If this isn't to bring in more exclusives (which at this point, is not going to help, given the install base discrepancy, tbh), then where is MS focused?
I would say, instead of focusing on bringing games to xbox, they are more concerned with infrastucture.

It's like instead of investing in netflix, you invest in a codec that is used in every settop that uses streaming. You know?
Netflix is a content developer/media platform.
a codec would be infrastructure.

The thing is people forget that MS is more than just a console company.  They have other products and their Cloud based infrastructure is a big one.  Anything that drive sales towards their tools and services like Azure is big bucks.  With that said, every decision MS makes doesn't really have to just be about the Xbox but instead can benefit the complete solution that MS is trying to deliver.  

So no this move does not have to just incentivize making games because MS is not just a games company.  Just because it doesn't just incentivize making games does not mean anything more than MS making moves to increase revenue for their entire business not just the Xbox.  Now with that said, if MS will be making a big push with using their cloud platform for gaming as they have stated since the beginning of the X1, how does this purchase not slot right into making that happen.  Purchasing a tools company that already have established contacts with every publisher and developer including mature tools for Physics just seem like a smart purchase.  With this purchase, MS can integrate their Cloud platform with Havok already advance physics tools and offer a complete solution for publisher and developers.  

This could allow first and 3rd party developers to easily utilize MS Cloud within their games to give the X1 an advantage over their competition.  This might actually allow MS to gain more 3rd party exclusives because what they can accomplish with their cloud tech cannot be done with the other players in the console market and thus see some developers wlling to make new games using the tech.  This can also help MS with developers using DX12 over other API solutions like Vulcan when it comes to developing PC games including their own.

So no, this purchase probably not Just about the Xbox but then again why does it have to be.  If the benefit will make the total solution better than its better for the platform as well.

Even using your netflix analogy I would change it to instead of Netfix purchasing new content for their services instead they invested in a new codex that make their content look better than the competition like providing 4K resolution for their content while the competition can only do 1080P.  Its a move that helps with the now as people are purchasing new sets with that resolution but also for the future when more people will have TVs before the competition can enter the space.



Machiavellian said:
theprof00 said:

Oh of course, that's true. I'm not saying there isn't another explanation.

I just think that maybe, just maybe there's something there. Like, if we look into it, we see several reasons for the purchase.
So they don't have to license someone elses tech, keeps money in their own pocket.
Helps their cloud compute platform, which they can monetize to developers.
Gives developers on ms platform a physics engine to use within their package.

So, I mean, one question is, does this incentivize making games exclusively for xbox? I'd say no, right?
Because either way, an exclusive dev is going to have all the tools they need already. I just don't see this being a "games oriented" purchase.
I see it as a platform distributor purchase, which is what it comes off as.

If this isn't to bring in more exclusives (which at this point, is not going to help, given the install base discrepancy, tbh), then where is MS focused?
I would say, instead of focusing on bringing games to xbox, they are more concerned with infrastucture.

It's like instead of investing in netflix, you invest in a codec that is used in every settop that uses streaming. You know?
Netflix is a content developer/media platform.
a codec would be infrastructure.

The thing is people forget that MS is more than just a console company.  They have other products and their Cloud based infrastructure is a big one.  Anything that drive sales towards their tools and services like Azure is big bucks.  With that said, every decision MS makes doesn't really have to just be about the Xbox but instead can benefit the complete solution that MS is trying to deliver.  

So no this move does not have to just incentivize making games because MS is not just a games company.  Just because it doesn't just incentivize making games does not mean anything more than MS making moves to increase revenue for their entire business not just the Xbox.  Now with that said, if MS will be making a big push with using their cloud platform for gaming as they have stated since the beginning of the X1, how does this purchase not slot right into making that happen.  Purchasing a tools company that already have established contacts with every publisher and developer including mature tools for Physics just seem like a smart purchase.  With this purchase, MS can integrate their Cloud platform with Havok already advance physics tools and offer a complete solution for publisher and developers.  

This could allow first and 3rd party developers to easily utilize MS Cloud within their games to give the X1 an advantage over their competition.  This might actually allow MS to gain more 3rd party exclusives because what they can accomplish with their cloud tech cannot be done with the other players in the console market and thus see some developers wlling to make new games using the tech.  This can also help MS with developers using DX12 over other API solutions like Vulcan when it comes to developing PC games including their own.

So no, this purchase probably not Just about the Xbox but then again why does it have to be.  If the benefit will make the total solution better than its better for the platform as well.

Even using your netflix analogy I would change it to instead of Netfix purchasing new content for their services instead they invested in a new codex that make their content look better than the competition like providing 4K resolution for their content while the competition can only do 1080P.  Its a move that helps with the now as people are purchasing new sets with that resolution but also for the future when more people will have TVs before the competition can enter the space.

Your analogy doesn't work though because havoc is an engine that everyone already uses, and on top of which there are multiple competitors. Azure is a great tool indeed, but it's not like it's doing anything to 'secure' exclusive content.

While I agree that MS is a big company, and not just xbox, we haven't seen any moves with xbox that seem geared towards getting new games, but rather most of the news has had to do with them gearing up to launching a new service platform via windows 10.

Cutting away dev houses doesn't reinforce the idea that they're pushing to expand their game development.

At the end of the day, the question is

Are these moves going to increase exclusive content. If the answer is yes, it's hard to see how it would, since like I said a lot of tools are already available to devs no matter who they sign with. If the answer is no, then it propogates the idea that they are moving toward something new. That's how I see it. It could go either way, but the fact that the question exists should give cause to follow that lead and think about possibilities not yet accounted for.



Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war

 

In the forseeable future, it doesn't seem to be headed in that direction



Bryank75 said:


How innocent...

The reason why MS have good financial results and has become the overblown behemoth it is, is because it has operated in a vacuum. A monopoly that they have operated for two and a half decades now. 

They were brought to the supreme court by a collection of states in "USA vs Microsoft corp", here I provide a quote from Judge Jackson (the presiding judge)

 

"Microsoft's conduct itself was the cause of any "perceived bias"; Microsoft executives had, according to him, "proved, time and time again, to be inaccurate, misleading, evasive, and transparently false. ... Microsoft is a company with an institutional disdain for both the truth and for rules of law that lesser entities must respect. It is also a company whose senior management is not averse to offering specious testimony to support spurious defenses to claims of its wrongdoing."

 

Their corporate culture is a disgrace and anyone supporting their activities should question their own moral compass.

Mods... please note that all the above are facts, followed by a relatively natural point of view given the behaviour of the company in question. 

Wasn't that statement made during the time they were still under Gates and was considered the Evil Empire of tech?