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Tom Brady is clear, Suspension is lifted

Forums - Sports Discussion - Tom Brady is clear, Suspension is lifted

mornelithe said:
Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

yes because clearly I think South Park is real life.  You make an awful lot of assumptions.

Says the guy who's more certain of guilt, than the Judge who saw every shred of evidence the NFL had, and disagreed.  Completely makes every point you make that much more valid, really it does.

It seems that the judge disagreed solely because of procedural errors, effectively the same thing as throwing out any criminal case because of illegally-submitted evidence. Yeah, that guy killed somebody, it's a fact, but the gun wasn't submitted into evidence properly so the jury can't rule him guilty. 

 

There are so many problems on both sides that this result is right now the best option for everybody. As much as I'd like to have seen Brady be suspended for his lack of cooperation with and active hindrance of the investigation (which an innocent man does not have reason to do), I'm fine with the result because the NFL did not follow procedure nearly well enough in a case of this caliber. 

 

And as an aside, if you want to be taken seriously on the topic, you should try to come off as knowledgeable without playing yourself up and others down. It's very doubtful you read EVERY piece of info about the case, especially since that amounts to at least 350 full pages of official documentation alone on top of thousands of articles and updates posted online since January. Because you seem to be biased one way here I even doubt you read the Wells Report in full, you probably did what everybody else did and skimmed key phrases quoted on Bleacher Report or something. And even if you HAD read everything, acting high and mighty about it, throwing in sassy responses, and then following up by making borderline hyperbolic claims just makes you seem like you're talking out of the wrong hole. I mean, not only is your South Park comment irrelevant to the topic, but saying that just makes you sound ridiculous, as if everything you say HAS to one up the guy before you. And if you wanna come off as credible or you want people to listen, that's not exactly a good way to do it. Just some friendly advice. 



You should check out my YouTube channel, The Golden Bolt!  I review all types of video games, both classic and modern, and I also give short flyover reviews of the free games each month on PlayStation Plus to tell you if they're worth downloading.  After all, the games may be free, but your time is valuable!

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Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

I'm not even close to a Raiders fan and my team has more superbowls than the Patriots so nothing to be salty about here.  Players have been suspended for far less.  You may commense with calling it salt again.  Also I've complimented Bill Belicheck in this thread just to prove I'm not a Patriots hater.  It's clear Brady doesn't mean much to the team given that they went 11-5 without him then 10-6 the year he came back.  He got superbowl MVP the first time with an offense that scored 13 points (7 defensive by the real MVP Ty Law), he threw an INT in the end zone against the panthers that kept the pats from ending the game in the third quarter in his second "MVP" performance, he threw 2 picks that kept the Seahawks in the game for his third "MVP" performance.  Clearly people like to give him unjust praise.  It's ok the overhwhelming majority see him for what he is now.  You can only have so many controvercies before your reputation collapses and brady is far past that point.  So it is in fact his defender's salt that I taste.  And it tastes glorious

"Commense with calling it salt again" doesn't really apply if I never stopped. You're clearly extremely salty about this, not sure why, but oh well.

Idk of any players who have been suspended for "far less" than what they actually can prove Brady did. Which is nothing, by the way. I don't care about Super Bowl MVP's from a decade ago, LOL. What the heck do those have to do with Brady today, and the suspension, and the overturning of that suspension? It's ok, broseph. You can continue to rage and be upset about it. I hope you're cursing at your TV five years after Brady retires when he gets his golden jacket. Maybe you can write the sports people who vote and let them know a majority of people aren't fans of Brady's reputation LOL.



DivinePaladin said:
mornelithe said:

Says the guy who's more certain of guilt, than the Judge who saw every shred of evidence the NFL had, and disagreed.  Completely makes every point you make that much more valid, really it does.

It seems that the judge disagreed solely because of procedural errors, effectively the same thing as throwing out any criminal case because of illegally-submitted evidence. Yeah, that guy killed somebody, it's a fact, but the gun wasn't submitted into evidence properly so the jury can't rule him guilty. 

 

There are so many problems on both sides that this result is right now the best option for everybody. As much as I'd like to have seen Brady be suspended for his lack of cooperation with and active hindrance of the investigation (which an innocent man does not have reason to do), I'm fine with the result because the NFL did not follow procedure nearly well enough in a case of this caliber. 

 

And as an aside, if you want to be taken seriously on the topic, you should try to come off as knowledgeable without playing yourself up and others down. It's very doubtful you read EVERY piece of info about the case, especially since that amounts to at least 350 full pages of official documentation alone on top of thousands of articles and updates posted online since January. Because you seem to be biased one way here I even doubt you read the Wells Report in full, you probably did what everybody else did and skimmed key phrases quoted on Bleacher Report or something. And even if you HAD read everything, acting high and mighty about it, throwing in sassy responses, and then following up by making borderline hyperbolic claims just makes you seem like you're talking out of the wrong hole. I mean, not only is your South Park comment irrelevant to the topic, but saying that just makes you sound ridiculous, as if everything you say HAS to one up the guy before you. And if you wanna come off as credible or you want people to listen, that's not exactly a good way to do it. Just some friendly advice. 

It seems you read as little as Robert Downey Jr., that's ok.  I and many others have.  Including the Judge, who directly asked Pash if they had any evidence directly connecting Brady to it.  Which Nash said no, and fell back on text messages which, while are intriguing for the 2 employees, provide no actual evidence to suggest Brady wanted the balls anywhere but at 12.5.

Thanks for playing though :)



It seems you read as little as Robert Downey Jr., that's ok.  I and many others have.  Including the Judge, who directly asked Pash if they had any evidence directly connecting Brady to it.  Which Nash said no, and fell back on text messages which, while are intriguing for the 2 employees, provide no actual evidence to suggest Brady wanted the balls anywhere but at 12.5.

Thanks for playing though :)

Not only that, those texts were from the OFFSEASON! The only one during regular season was "deflate and give me that jacket" which by the way they did not focus on because it seems as though that really could pertain to weight loss, which would definitely not help their case. I have been following this, reading this, listening to this since day one on sports radio. There IS NO EVIDENCE, and if they did everything right at the championship game they would know that the Ideal Gas Law really does explain the deflation, among other things such as normal air leakage and giant men falling on the footballs. But who cares about facts? The NFL didn't, why should their ill-informed fans? Seriously am sick of defending something that should be obvious, but I have to keep doing it.



NNID: Dongo8                              XBL Gamertag: Dongos Revenge

mornelithe said:
DivinePaladin said:

It seems that the judge disagreed solely because of procedural errors, effectively the same thing as throwing out any criminal case because of illegally-submitted evidence. Yeah, that guy killed somebody, it's a fact, but the gun wasn't submitted into evidence properly so the jury can't rule him guilty. 

 

There are so many problems on both sides that this result is right now the best option for everybody. As much as I'd like to have seen Brady be suspended for his lack of cooperation with and active hindrance of the investigation (which an innocent man does not have reason to do), I'm fine with the result because the NFL did not follow procedure nearly well enough in a case of this caliber. 

 

And as an aside, if you want to be taken seriously on the topic, you should try to come off as knowledgeable without playing yourself up and others down. It's very doubtful you read EVERY piece of info about the case, especially since that amounts to at least 350 full pages of official documentation alone on top of thousands of articles and updates posted online since January. Because you seem to be biased one way here I even doubt you read the Wells Report in full, you probably did what everybody else did and skimmed key phrases quoted on Bleacher Report or something. And even if you HAD read everything, acting high and mighty about it, throwing in sassy responses, and then following up by making borderline hyperbolic claims just makes you seem like you're talking out of the wrong hole. I mean, not only is your South Park comment irrelevant to the topic, but saying that just makes you sound ridiculous, as if everything you say HAS to one up the guy before you. And if you wanna come off as credible or you want people to listen, that's not exactly a good way to do it. Just some friendly advice. 

It seems you read as little as Robert Downey Jr., that's ok.  I and many others have.  Including the Judge, who directly asked Pash if they had any evidence directly connecting Brady to it.  Which Nash said no, and fell back on text messages which, while are intriguing for the 2 employees, provide no actual evidence to suggest Brady wanted the balls anywhere but at 12.5.

Thanks for playing though :)

Hey, I made my point bud. I stopped reading up on the issue months ago when it was clear the NFL was just trying to profit off of the controversy, I'll fully admit that. But at least I'm honest about what I read. All you're doing at this point is coming off as immature with the constant "I totally read everything guys!" comments to make yourself seem more important than other commenters here. No adult who read literally everything is going to reiterate that point literally every time somebody disagrees. 



You should check out my YouTube channel, The Golden Bolt!  I review all types of video games, both classic and modern, and I also give short flyover reviews of the free games each month on PlayStation Plus to tell you if they're worth downloading.  After all, the games may be free, but your time is valuable!

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DivinePaladin said:
mornelithe said:

It seems you read as little as Robert Downey Jr., that's ok.  I and many others have.  Including the Judge, who directly asked Pash if they had any evidence directly connecting Brady to it.  Which Nash said no, and fell back on text messages which, while are intriguing for the 2 employees, provide no actual evidence to suggest Brady wanted the balls anywhere but at 12.5.

Thanks for playing though :)

Hey, I made my point bud. I stopped reading up on the issue months ago when it was clear the NFL was just trying to profit off of the controversy, I'll fully admit that. But at least I'm honest about what I read. 

"Stopped reading up on the issue months ago" - Says all anyone needs to know about even discussing it with you.  It means you haven't read the appeals transcript, which pretty much destroys Goodell's entire argument (Which is probably why he wanted it sealed).

And no, this h ad nothing to do with profit, this had everything to do with the Commissioner attempting to make an example of a star player and his franchise, in order to solidify power under Article 46 of the CBA.  It was meant as a way to bolster Goodell's floundering authority, his questionable character, his incompetence as a commissioner, and to put every other team and player on notice that this could happen to them.

There's a reason why many current players who have responded to the decision have said this is a good day for players.  Because it is.  The NFL cannot just arbitrarily do whatever it pleases.  It has to adhere to Laws of Shop, and the CBA.  They didn't.

PS. To prove this, the NFL required, as part of their offer of a 3 game settlement to Brady, that not only Brady accept the findings of the Wells Report (which would mean he committed perjury, also, something no player who's ever been found guilty or anything has been required to do), they also required (as revealed today) that the NFLPA agreed to allowing 'limitless cooperation' from players, in any future disciplinary process.  Hideous overreach.



The fact that people are things about Goodell just shows how great he is at his job. He's the puppet of the owners, and how he's become the evil one and not them is just amazing to me.

Also, if this much story and controversy happened to anyone else, would this have gotten revoked? Would the punishment have been so lenient. It's not often that actual cheating gets punished less severely than off the field decisions.



outlawauron said:
The fact that people are things about Goodell just shows how great he is at his job. He's the puppet of the owners, and how he's become the evil one and not them is just amazing to me.

While you're absolutely correct, Goodell is their fall guy, it's ultimately up to him to choose to go forward with things.  Unless, of course, money and his position means more to him than actually following the law (which, appears to be the case).  He's every bit as responsible as the owners in any league discipline, because the owners, cannot file discipline, those powers are held under the auspices of the Commissioner's office (as noted in the CBA).



mornelithe said:
Johnw1104 said:

I suppose what surprises me is they didn't attempt to settle out of court when the missteps were clear to all. It sounds like they had little chance at that point.

That's exactly what the Judge was attempting to push them towards during the hearings.  He hammered the NFL continuously over procedural flaws, and even told them about the Pash thing.  So yeah, it's surprising, however, looking at it from the NFL's perspective, they were attempting to hold onto unlimited power that they 'thought' the CBA afforded them, and after millions of dollars in fees surrounding the case, it seemed like they just dug their heels in.

The NFL is appealing, but given the wording of the Judge's ruling, it's unlikely they're going to win.  I would also note that this case was unique, very unique.  Even though Brady won, it doesn't mean every case brought before the courts will go the same way.  I doubt the NFL will be so blase with the procedural side of this from here on out.  Plus, it was a very very unique set of circumstances, so the league still has a ton of authority under the CBA, but Berman nailed home the fact that they have to follow those procedures as laid out in the CBA and in Federal Labor Law.

 

To start I should mention that I'm a Dolphins fan, so I certainly have no love for Brady haha

To me, I think it's extremely unlikely that Tom Brady wasn't aware of tampering with the footballs. Somehow, though, the NFL succeeded in making a lifetime Dolphins fan and man who believes Brady was guilty into a Brady sympathizer. 

First, they approached this investigation with all the subtlety and responsibility of TMZ. They publicized every step of the process, violated his CBA granted rights, and mislead the public whenever possible, such as saying Brady "destroyed" his cell phone.

Second, they not only invaded his privacy, but they allowed the entire world to invade his privacy. When people began reporting on one of Brady's private emails regarding Manning, it being completely unrelated to the matter at hand, I was just floored. That this was "leaked" (i.e. further attempts to damage his reputation) is unforgivable and incredibly irresponsible, and I hoped Brady would sue the crap out of them and still hope that now. Seriously, who the hell do they think they are? This made me feel actual anger on behalf of the bane of my NFL experience; well done Goodell.

Finally, I think we should not lose sight of the fact that this all stems from slightly deflated footballs in a 45-7 rout. I feel I should copy-paste this as it seems people are acting as if he drop kicked an infant: "this all stems from slightly deflated footballs in a 45-7 rout".

The penalty for this was just ridiculous. The alleged crime is a tactic that many quarterbacks admit to having done for decades, and it's something that no one in the league is surprised by. While a violation, four games is just a hilariously over-the-top penalty when you see how the league handles other matters. For instance, while I forgot what team it was, I recall one being caught heating the footballs on the sideline. Heck, the Atlanta Hawks were pumping artificial crowd noise into their stadium, a violation with far more impact on the game, and simply received a fine.

This was, to be blunt, a witch hunt. The other teams envy the consistency of their franchise and went after them. If this had been Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russel Wilson etc, it'd have been a fine and we'd be done talking about it after a week or two. 

Believe me, I long for the days of my childhood where the patriots were a non factor (and we had Marino :D) more than most people, but this experience made me into a Patriots and Brady sympathizer, which makes me want to puke on a puppy (not really, I like puppies I swear O_o). A reasonable penalty was in order, but the league never showed a desire to be reasonable. The NFL was just so outrageously unfair throughout this process that any objective observer could not hope for their success.



Johnw1104 said:
mornelithe said:

That's exactly what the Judge was attempting to push them towards during the hearings.  He hammered the NFL continuously over procedural flaws, and even told them about the Pash thing.  So yeah, it's surprising, however, looking at it from the NFL's perspective, they were attempting to hold onto unlimited power that they 'thought' the CBA afforded them, and after millions of dollars in fees surrounding the case, it seemed like they just dug their heels in.

The NFL is appealing, but given the wording of the Judge's ruling, it's unlikely they're going to win.  I would also note that this case was unique, very unique.  Even though Brady won, it doesn't mean every case brought before the courts will go the same way.  I doubt the NFL will be so blase with the procedural side of this from here on out.  Plus, it was a very very unique set of circumstances, so the league still has a ton of authority under the CBA, but Berman nailed home the fact that they have to follow those procedures as laid out in the CBA and in Federal Labor Law.

 

To start I should mention that I'm a Dolphins fan, so I certainly have no love for Brady haha

To me, I think it's extremely unlikely that Tom Brady wasn't aware of tampering with the footballs. Somehow, though, the NFL succeeded in making a lifetime Dolphins fan and man who believes Brady was guilty into a Brady sympathizer. 

First, they approached this investigation with all the subtlety and responsibility of TMZ. They publicized every step of the process, violated his CBA granted rights, and mislead the public whenever possible, such as saying Brady "destroyed" his cell phone.

Second, they not only invaded his privacy, but they allowed the entire world to invade his privacy. When people began reporting on one of Brady's private emails regarding Manning, it being completely unrelated to the matter at hand, I was just floored. That this was "leaked" (i.e. further attempts to damage his reputation) is unforgivable and incredibly irresponsible, and I hoped Brady would sue the crap out of them and still hope that now. Seriously, who the hell do they think they are? This made me feel actual anger on behalf of the bane of my NFL experience; well done Goodell.

Finally, I think we should not lose sight of the fact that this all stems from slightly deflated footballs in a 45-7 rout. I feel I should copy-paste this as it seems people are acting as if he drop kicked an infant: "this all stems from slightly deflated footballs in a 45-7 rout".

The penalty for this was just ridiculous. The alleged crime is a tactic that many quarterbacks admit to having done for decades, and it's something that no one in the league is surprised by. While a violation, four games is just a hilariously over-the-top penalty when you see how the league handles other matters. For instance, while I forgot what team it was, I recall one being caught heating the footballs on the sideline. Heck, the Atlanta Hawks were pumping artificial crowd noise into their stadium, a violation with far more impact on the game, and simply received a fine.

This was, to be blunt, a witch hunt. The other teams envy the consistency of their franchise and went after them. If this had been Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russel Wilson etc, it'd have been a fine and we'd be done talking about it after a week or two. 

Believe me, I long for the days of my childhood where the patriots were a non factor (and we had Marino :D) more than most people, but this experience made me into a Patriots and Brady sympathizer, which makes me want to puke on a puppy (not really, I like puppies I swear O_o). A reasonable penalty was in order, but the league never showed a desire to be reasonable. The NFL was just so outrageously unfair throughout this process that any objective observer could not hope for their success.

First bold:  I agree with you here.  Even if Brady's awareness was as simple as him telling an equipment guy "keep them on the lower side I like them that way" then he was aware that they were doing something to the balls to get them how he likes them.  Awareness has never counted against a player before though.  It also doesn't mean he told them explicitly to make them less than the 12.5 limit.

Second bold: To further expand on this, slightly deflated footballs in the first half of a game that was won 45 to 7 where the Patriots only scored 17 of those 45 with the "suspect balls" and went on to score more in the second half when they were using balls well within the standards.