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Forums - Sports Discussion - Tom Brady is clear, Suspension is lifted

Johnw1104 said:
mornelithe said:

That's exactly what the Judge was attempting to push them towards during the hearings.  He hammered the NFL continuously over procedural flaws, and even told them about the Pash thing.  So yeah, it's surprising, however, looking at it from the NFL's perspective, they were attempting to hold onto unlimited power that they 'thought' the CBA afforded them, and after millions of dollars in fees surrounding the case, it seemed like they just dug their heels in.

The NFL is appealing, but given the wording of the Judge's ruling, it's unlikely they're going to win.  I would also note that this case was unique, very unique.  Even though Brady won, it doesn't mean every case brought before the courts will go the same way.  I doubt the NFL will be so blase with the procedural side of this from here on out.  Plus, it was a very very unique set of circumstances, so the league still has a ton of authority under the CBA, but Berman nailed home the fact that they have to follow those procedures as laid out in the CBA and in Federal Labor Law.

 

To start I should mention that I'm a Dolphins fan, so I certainly have no love for Brady haha

To me, I think it's extremely unlikely that Tom Brady wasn't aware of tampering with the footballs. Somehow, though, the NFL succeeded in making a lifetime Dolphins fan and man who believes Brady was guilty into a Brady sympathizer. 

First, they approached this investigation with all the subtlety and responsibility of TMZ. They publicized every step of the process, violated his CBA granted rights, and mislead the public whenever possible, such as saying Brady "destroyed" his cell phone.

Second, they not only invaded his privacy, but they allowed the entire world to invade his privacy. When people began reporting on one of Brady's private emails regarding Manning, it being completely unrelated to the matter at hand, I was just floored. That this was "leaked" (i.e. further attempts to damage his reputation) is unforgivable and incredibly irresponsible, and I hoped Brady would sue the crap out of them and still hope that now. Seriously, who the hell do they think they are? This made me feel actual anger on behalf of the bane of my NFL experience; well done Goodell.

Finally, I think we should not lose sight of the fact that this all stems from slightly deflated footballs in a 45-7 rout. I feel I should copy-paste this as it seems people are acting as if he drop kicked an infant: "this all stems from slightly deflated footballs in a 45-7 rout".

The penalty for this was just ridiculous. The alleged crime is a tactic that many quarterbacks admit to having done for decades, and it's something that no one in the league is surprised by. While a violation, four games is just a hilariously over-the-top penalty when you see how the league handles other matters. For instance, while I forgot what team it was, I recall one being caught heating the footballs on the sideline. Heck, the Atlanta Hawks were pumping artificial crowd noise into their stadium, a violation with far more impact on the game, and simply received a fine.

This was, to be blunt, a witch hunt. The other teams envy the consistency of their franchise and went after them. If this had been Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russel Wilson etc, it'd have been a fine and we'd be done talking about it after a week or two. 

Believe me, I long for the days of my childhood where the patriots were a non factor (and we had Marino :D) more than most people, but this experience made me into a Patriots and Brady sympathizer, which makes me want to puke on a puppy (not really, I like puppies I swear O_o). A reasonable penalty was in order, but the league never showed a desire to be reasonable. The NFL was just so outrageously unfair throughout this process that any objective observer could not hope for their success.

The problem is, the NFL fucked up the process of the actual testing of the balls, so badly, no reasonable person could actually come to the conclusion that any tampering happened.  You have to assume a great many things, including but not limited to, rejecting the recollection of a Head Ref (Walt Anderson), when they accepted every other thing he had to say.

IF any tampering did happen, and that's a BIG if, we're talking .4 PSI, at most (You must take into account the natural deflation that would've occurred between a 71 degree officials locker room and the 51-48 degree playing field, AND include precipitation (Which Wells' team, did not), which increases the surface area of leather, which would lower the PSI further).  EDIT: Just to be clear, the .4 PSI number represents the difference between the Logo and Non-logo gauges used by the refs to measure the balls in the AFCCG. In the span of 90 seconds, from 11 Footballs.  And here's the sticky part to that assumption, the NFL Refs (Who are full-time employees during a league year, and thus, handle a SHITLOAD of balls), couldn't measure all Colts and Pats balls w/in the ENTIRETY of half-time.  But, this part-time employee, who only works during home games...he's suddenly capable of doing that?

I'll be the first to admit that the 'deflator' text, sounds odd, but it was in May (the Off-season), given we have a plausible natural explanation here, you'd also have to assume that the deflator text is taken out of context (unless the NFL can reproduce the entire sequence of events, sans extreme fuckups).

Couple the issues with the science, and the oddity of ignoring testimony to suit your ends, you have the very, very odd behavior of the NFL throughout all of this.  Instead of making this story about .4 PSI (as it should've been from the beginning), they allowed Mortensen's report to go unchecked, for months.  Allowing the public to assume that was a correct statement.  You have Goodell, mischaracterizing Brady's sworn testimony during the appeal, and then raising his certainty level of guilt, beyond that of the Wells Report, afterwards.  You have Goodell denying Brady due process.  You have Goodell violating the Law of the Shop (Proper notice), you have Goodell attempting to punish a player for a team penalty.  You have Goodell, attempting to apply an arbitrary and capricious punishment for something that similar infractions from the past haven't warranted anything more than a warning. (See Jets Kicker Feely, and Panthers v Vikings game from last year).

How people come away from this, believing Goodell, The League, ESPN, or NFLN in any way shape or form is beyond absurd.  We have provable example, after example of Goodell straight up lying about several aspects of this case, and yet, people still come away thinking Brady was involved.  I mean, I appreciate your pragmatism in this, but it's still pretty shocking anyone can look at the facts of this case and say with any level of certainty that Brady (or anyone) was involved in lowering the pressure in Footballs below the 12.5 threshold.



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outlawauron said:

The fact that people are things about Goodell just shows how great he is at his job. He's the puppet of the owners, and how he's become the evil one and not them is just amazing to me.

Also, if this much story and controversy happened to anyone else, would this have gotten revoked? Would the punishment have been so lenient. It's not often that actual cheating gets punished less severely than off the field decisions.

Yes, it would have gotten revoked had it been someone else. However, I don't think that it is an over-reach to say that if it had been any other QB in the league, it would have been a slap on the wrist $25,000 fine like it was supposed to be (look up rules for equipment violation). The NFL suddenly changed it from "equipment violation" to conduct detrimental to the league/game because they wanted to make up their own punishment, because rule 46 states that they can punish however they see fit in that case. Not only that, but equipment violations, which is definitely what this was are supposed to be only aimed at the team and cannot be tied to a single player. Furthermore, the deflated footballs were not "found" they were made up, they were a sting on the Patriots set up in combination with Mike Kensil, Baltimore, and Indianapolis. They wanted to "catch" the Pats in the act of something that they didn't even do and punish them because they can't keep up with them, no one can. It was an attempt at a competitive advantage by these teams because they are tired of the Patriots being the team to come out of the AFC.

All of this is not just theories, either, as I said I have followed this from day one very closely and there are emails between the Ravens and Colts setting this thing up. Nobody cares when other teams and QBs do it, and who knows if the Patriots ever really do it, the whole point was to catch up basically by creating a false violation that cost the Patriots Tom Brady and some picks. Lucky for them the Brady part backfired, but they will still be missing those picks. It was ridiculous and unheard of, and it never should have happened, but the hate runs deep, even in the NFL owners. The only other thing I will say is the Patriots WHOOPED the Colts in the second half of the AFC championship, AFTER their supposed "cheater balls" were reinflated to regulation, so let it go already, they were a way better team. Also think about all of the road games where they had no chance to even touch the footballs, why did they do so well in those? Food for thought, and maybe an angle to help end the hate. Compare Brady's home and away games, negligible difference. PLEASE get fully educated on this stuff before commenting, I understand if you are a Pats hater, 3/4 of the world seems to be, but seriously, get the facts.



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Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
Only Tom Brady would take things this far to get a suspension lifted. What a cry baby. Oh well it's not like he has any real rings so we'll see if he can finally win one legit.

Seems like you might be the cry baby.



By the way, for anyone who is interested, here's Stephanie Stradley discussing this case. Full Disclosure: She's an admitted Texans fan, and admits that the Patriots losing Brady would benefit her greatly, however, as a legal analyst/lawyer, and her experience with pouring over legal documents, she should be worth a listen to.






Ruh Roh. That's the sound of the pillars of power crumbling.

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LudicrousSpeed said:
Robert_Downey_Jr. said:

I'm not even close to a Raiders fan and my team has more superbowls than the Patriots so nothing to be salty about here.  Players have been suspended for far less.  You may commense with calling it salt again.  Also I've complimented Bill Belicheck in this thread just to prove I'm not a Patriots hater.  It's clear Brady doesn't mean much to the team given that they went 11-5 without him then 10-6 the year he came back.  He got superbowl MVP the first time with an offense that scored 13 points (7 defensive by the real MVP Ty Law), he threw an INT in the end zone against the panthers that kept the pats from ending the game in the third quarter in his second "MVP" performance, he threw 2 picks that kept the Seahawks in the game for his third "MVP" performance.  Clearly people like to give him unjust praise.  It's ok the overhwhelming majority see him for what he is now.  You can only have so many controvercies before your reputation collapses and brady is far past that point.  So it is in fact his defender's salt that I taste.  And it tastes glorious

"Commense with calling it salt again" doesn't really apply if I never stopped. You're clearly extremely salty about this, not sure why, but oh well.

Idk of any players who have been suspended for "far less" than what they actually can prove Brady did. Which is nothing, by the way. I don't care about Super Bowl MVP's from a decade ago, LOL. What the heck do those have to do with Brady today, and the suspension, and the overturning of that suspension? It's ok, broseph. You can continue to rage and be upset about it. I hope you're cursing at your TV five years after Brady retires when he gets his golden jacket. Maybe you can write the sports people who vote and let them know a majority of people aren't fans of Brady's reputation LOL.

You certainly have an interesting imagination.  It all factors into his tainted legacy.  You may commence with calling it salt again since I'm pretty sure you're not continuously doing that every second of the day.  Hope that clears that up for you.  I have nothing to rage about since the damage has been done.  Brady can whine and rage and fight to win a legitimate ring all he wants but nobody really cares about what you do when you're basically the 1919 Reds of today.



I am Iron Man

whatever said:
Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
Only Tom Brady would take things this far to get a suspension lifted. What a cry baby. Oh well it's not like he has any real rings so we'll see if he can finally win one legit.

Seems like you might be the cry baby.

i'm pretty happy.  Another shot at Brady's legacy here.  He's the first player I've heard of bringing a suspension this far.  So yeah Goodell's power collapses and Brady's reputation as a whiner who can't accept his cheating legacy (which is cemented already) is cemented as well.  It's nice that no matter how much he wins now pretty much no one cares



I am Iron Man

Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
whatever said:

Seems like you might be the cry baby.

i'm pretty happy.  Another shot at Brady's legacy here.  He's the first player I've heard of bringing a suspension this far.  So yeah Goodell's power collapses and Brady's reputation as a whiner who can't accept his cheating legacy (which is cemented already) is cemented as well.  It's nice that no matter how much he wins now pretty much no one cares

So...lol, what you're saying is you really literally don't ever read anything that isn't on this website?

http://deadspin.com/5941442/saints-players-bountygate-suspensions-overturned-on-appeal

Your credibility grows by the hour.



mornelithe said:
Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
whatever said:

Seems like you might be the cry baby.

i'm pretty happy.  Another shot at Brady's legacy here.  He's the first player I've heard of bringing a suspension this far.  So yeah Goodell's power collapses and Brady's reputation as a whiner who can't accept his cheating legacy (which is cemented already) is cemented as well.  It's nice that no matter how much he wins now pretty much no one cares

So...lol, what you're saying is you really literally don't ever read anything that isn't on this website?

http://deadspin.com/5941442/saints-players-bountygate-suspensions-overturned-on-appeal

Your credibility grows by the hour.

Yeah they're pretty bad so thanks for bringing that up but Brady is clearly worse.  Well I suppose Belicheck is mostly the spygate guy though all his players were complicit so take your pick.  Definitely Brady with the balls though.  Man it's hard to keep straight all these controvercies and caught red handed moments.  You wann start defening the Saints too or are you backpeddling?



I am Iron Man

Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
mornelithe said:

So...lol, what you're saying is you really literally don't ever read anything that isn't on this website?

http://deadspin.com/5941442/saints-players-bountygate-suspensions-overturned-on-appeal

Your credibility grows by the hour.

Yeah they're pretty bad so thanks for bringing that up but Brady is clearly worse.  Well I suppose Belicheck is mostly the spygate guy though all his players were complicit so take your pick.  Definitely Brady with the balls though.  Man it's hard to keep straight all these controvercies and caught red handed moments.  You wann start defening the Saints too or are you backpeddling?

Also, Ray Rice's suspension was overturned, as was Adrian Peterson's.  So yeah, your knowledge of the NFL is really quite fragile.  And no, this isn't a defense, it's more about Goodell and their Lawyers inability to adhere to the CBA and Labor Law (which is why they retooled the domestic abuse and PED's penalties shortly after getting destroyed in court).  It's not about defending bountygate either, it's acknowledging the fact that the NFL abused it's authority.  This case was only a shining example of how stupid Goodell and his cronies are.  They had every opportunity to accept a 1 game settlement out of Brady, and they lost, because they're idiots and couldn't read the tea leaves.

As far as guilt? lol, most legal analysts who've viewed the Wells Report, the Wells Report in Context and the AEI Analysis see the NFL using adverse inferences wherever possible to come to a conclusion of 'more probable than not'.  To say nothing of how badly the appeals transcripts damaged Goodell's credibility, but I'm sure you haven't read that either.  It'd be tossed out of court without even a trial.   That really should tell you something, but it does require a measure of impartiality, which is clear you are not viewing this case through.

Yeah, I'm a Pats fan, but, I'm certainly not above admitting someone broke the rules...if in fact the evidence is there to support it.  The NFL's shit show, was evidence of nothing but their own incompetence.

So, any more claims I can demolish in a 3 second search on google?