binary solo said: I think you are overstating the influence of all of those 2016 titles, possibly with the exception of Gears 4. Also isn't 2015 comparable to 360's 2007? 2007 was Halo 3, are you expecting Halo 5 to be a bigger deal than Halo 3? I seriously doubt it. RoTR, for all I expect it to be a very good game, is going to get lost in the noise of all the massive multiplat games releasing around the same time, and for Xb one specifically Halo 5 too. Gears remasterplus and Forza 6? Really you think those will have a substantial influence this holiday? It really comes down to Halo 5 this year and Gears 4 next year and whatever MS has not yet anounced which might get lots of people (not just the Xbox choir) excited.

It will also have extra competition from a much cheaper PS4 next year, too.  It will most likely be $299 (which is the biggest sweet spot for console pricing) in time for Holiday 2016, if Sony doesn't already drop it to that price this holiday.  Though, now, I only expect a $50 cut this year.

nanarchy said: BMaker11 said: Like I said: 3.9 shipped, Greenberg was trying to pass off as sold, when it was really 3M sold. Day 1 editions were available several months after launch. And AC Bundles are still available. If that's not overshipping, I don't know what is.  You don't seem to understand how supply chains work. MS can't just overship constantly. They sell to retailers and can only ship what these retailers buy from them, they can make incentives etc for retailers to purchase extra but they can't just ship extra. No company can know for certain how many units are sold to consumers, financial reports are legal documents where companies are legally required to be accurate and hence all companies say what they provably know which is how many they sold to retailers.

It is very true that there is always a limit that any company can try to push overstocking with dealer deals or new SKUs/bundles.  Of course, I have no doubt that MS is keeping it at, or very near, that limit at all times.  They don't want to appear to be falling that far behind.

Years go by and people refuse to understand how quarterly reports are the only oficial and accurated (unless we are talking about Toshiba) numbers we can get.

We don´t need to know exactly how many devices were shipped.

Look at another Apple record breaking quarter:

"The consensus among analysts was that Apple would sell around 4 million Apple watches during this quarter. But given the wide range of prices on different models of the Apple Watch, and the fact that revenue is lumped into a larger bucket that includes sales of devices like the iPod, Apple TV, and Beats hardware, it is difficult if not impossible to work out exactly how many were sold."

http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/21/9010797/apple-q3-2015-earnings

It´s just how things works.

But any way, the 360 is a beast selling 10mi units since the One and PS4 launch...

jlmurph2 said: ArchangelMadzz said: Shipping numbers mean little, bundling shipping numbers means even less. And how much do you think 360 is adding to this number.

And again to show how meaningless it is, we don't know how much the 360 is adding to this number. And we don't know how many of those units are sold. 

Snoopy said: binary solo said: I think you are overstating the influence of all of those 2016 titles, possibly with the exception of Gears 4. Also isn't 2015 comparable to 360's 2007? 2007 was Halo 3, are you expecting Halo 5 to be a bigger deal than Halo 3? I seriously doubt it. RoTR, for all I expect it to be a very good game, is going to get lost in the noise of all the massive multiplat games releasing around the same time, and for Xb one specifically Halo 5 too. Gears remasterplus and Forza 6? Really you think those will have a substantial influence this holiday? It really comes down to Halo 5 this year and Gears 4 next year and whatever MS has not yet anounced which might get lots of people (not just the Xbox choir) excited. Yes, there will be people who will purchase the xbox one based on forza /gears remaster and it will continue to outsell the 360. Just look what is happening now without a main Halo or Gears title or any exclusive this first half of the year. It will outdo the 360 and possibly ps3 on a yearly bases.

Yes, but not in globally significant numbers. Forza has never pushed system sales in any substantial way and there is no reason to believe it will this time around. Remasters don't sell systems period. Any comparison with 360 prior to 2008 is dubious because 360 didn't really take off until 2008. And we all know that 360 really hit another gear when Kinect came along in 2011. It's pure speculaton to think that Xb one has anything on the horizon that can have a Kinect 1.0 like effect.

Look what's happening now? What's happening now is launch aligned Xb one is ahead of 360 by less than it was on 1 January this year. So 360 is catching up to Xb one, at a time when there was nothing much to push 360. And especially taking account of inflation the 360 was more expensive at this time than the Xb one is now, unless you were buying the gimped model with no HDD. It is undeniable that Xb one will fall behind 360 at some point, because PS4 and Xb one are selling to a market that has not substantially changed in size since the 6th generation. The only change last gen was a whole bunch of noobs came in with Wii and went out again once they got bored of Wii. 360 and PS3 largely shared the same pool of gamers as PS2 and Xbox, and PS4 and Xb one will also share the largely the same pool. In essence a +1 for PS4 over PS3 is a -1 for Xb one compared to 360. It's just the timing of these +es and -es that are being staggered. The +es for PS4 are coming in early because PS3 had a shit start. The -es for Xb one will kick in later because 360 had a great middle and end.

thismeintiel said: binary solo said: I think you are overstating the influence of all of those 2016 titles, possibly with the exception of Gears 4. Also isn't 2015 comparable to 360's 2007? 2007 was Halo 3, are you expecting Halo 5 to be a bigger deal than Halo 3? I seriously doubt it. RoTR, for all I expect it to be a very good game, is going to get lost in the noise of all the massive multiplat games releasing around the same time, and for Xb one specifically Halo 5 too. Gears remasterplus and Forza 6? Really you think those will have a substantial influence this holiday? It really comes down to Halo 5 this year and Gears 4 next year and whatever MS has not yet anounced which might get lots of people (not just the Xbox choir) excited. It will also have extra competition from a much cheaper PS4 next year, too.  It will most likely be $299 (which is the biggest sweet spot for console pricing) in time for Holiday 2016, if Sony doesn't already drop it to that price this holiday.  Though, now, I only expect a $50 cut this year.

with the 1TB model coming along I don;t expect any price cut, other than to clear out stocks of the 500GB model. 1TB will slot in at $399 and become the base sku, with Sony quickly ceasing shipments of 500GB models once the 1TB is in place in all markets. So not a true price cut, just a clearance sale. Well timed of course to coincide with the holidays. I agree that $299 is what we'll see for holiday 2016.

binary solo said: Yes, but not in globally significant numbers. Forza has never pushed system sales in any substantial way and there is no reason to believe it will this time around. Remasters don't sell systems period. Any comparison with 360 prior to 2008 is dubious because 360 didn't really take off until 2008. And we all know that 360 really hit another gear when Kinect came along in 2011. It's pure speculaton to think that Xb one has anything on the horizon that can have a Kinect 1.0 like effect. Look what's happening now? What's happening now is launch aligned Xb one is ahead of 360 by less than it was on 1 January this year. So 360 is catching up to Xb one, at a time when there was nothing much to push 360. And especially taking account of inflation the 360 was more expensive at this time than the Xb one is now, unless you were buying the gimped model with no HDD. It is undeniable that Xb one will fall behind 360 at some point, because PS4 and Xb one are selling to a market that has not substantially changed in size since the 6th generation. The only change last gen was a whole bunch of noobs came in with Wii and went out again once they got bored of Wii. 360 and PS3 largely shared the same pool of gamers as PS2 and Xbox, and PS4 and Xb one will also share the largely the same pool. In essence a +1 for PS4 over PS3 is a -1 for Xb one compared to 360. It's just the timing of these +es and -es that are being staggered. The +es for PS4 are coming in early because PS3 had a shit start. The -es for Xb one will kick in later because 360 had a great middle and end.

I´m realy curious where did you get this from.

Acording to shipping number the XOne is performing far better than the 360 at the same point.

Unless, of course you belive the 360 is responsible for 60% of Xbox units shipped.

 

Xbox 360 Hardware Unit Sales (Unit:Million) FY Jl-Sp Oc-Dc Ja-Mr Ap-Jn FY LTD 2005/06 - 1.5 1.7 1.8 5.0 5.0 2006/07 1.0 4.4 0.5 0.7 6.6 11.6

(360 + XBO) Hardware Unit Sales (Unit:Million) FY Jl-Sp Oc-Dc Ja-Mr Ap-Jn FY 2013/14 1.2 7.4 2.0 1.1 11.7 2014/15 2.4 6.6 1.6 1.4 12.1

I guess that's okay. Not great but not bad either.

Dark_Feanor said: binary solo said: Yes, but not in globally significant numbers. Forza has never pushed system sales in any substantial way and there is no reason to believe it will this time around. Remasters don't sell systems period. Any comparison with 360 prior to 2008 is dubious because 360 didn't really take off until 2008. And we all know that 360 really hit another gear when Kinect came along in 2011. It's pure speculaton to think that Xb one has anything on the horizon that can have a Kinect 1.0 like effect. Look what's happening now? What's happening now is launch aligned Xb one is ahead of 360 by less than it was on 1 January this year. So 360 is catching up to Xb one, at a time when there was nothing much to push 360. And especially taking account of inflation the 360 was more expensive at this time than the Xb one is now, unless you were buying the gimped model with no HDD. It is undeniable that Xb one will fall behind 360 at some point, because PS4 and Xb one are selling to a market that has not substantially changed in size since the 6th generation. The only change last gen was a whole bunch of noobs came in with Wii and went out again once they got bored of Wii. 360 and PS3 largely shared the same pool of gamers as PS2 and Xbox, and PS4 and Xb one will also share the largely the same pool. In essence a +1 for PS4 over PS3 is a -1 for Xb one compared to 360. It's just the timing of these +es and -es that are being staggered. The +es for PS4 are coming in early because PS3 had a shit start. The -es for Xb one will kick in later because 360 had a great middle and end. I´m realy curious where did you get this from. Acording to shipping number the XOne is performing far better than the 360 at the same point. Unless, of course you belive the 360 is responsible for 60% of Xbox units shipped.   Xbox 360 Hardware Unit Sales (Unit:Million) FY Jl-Sp Oc-Dc Ja-Mr Ap-Jn FY LTD 2005/06 - 1.5 1.7 1.8 5.0 5.0 2006/07 1.0 4.4 0.5 0.7 6.6 11.6 (360 + XBO) Hardware Unit Sales (Unit:Million) FY Jl-Sp Oc-Dc Ja-Mr Ap-Jn FY 2013/14 1.2 7.4 2.0 1.1 11.7 2014/15 2.4 6.6 1.6 1.4 12.1

Given those numbers are not comparable because one set is for 360 alone and the other set is for 360+Xb one there is unfortunately only one set of data we can use for direct comparison, and that is not very accurate. But we can only work with the numbers we have.

However, if as you show above the 360 LTD shipments to June 2007 were 11.6 million then the VGC sell through number to the same date (well one week short) seems to be pretty accurate, and if anything a tad undertracked.

Are we estimating that Xb one is substantially undertracked here? If so then obviously my previous statement is entirely predicated on whether you think the VGC LTD sell through for Xb one is roughly credible or not.

BraLoD said: Not breakdown again? XBO + 360?

They are doing now what Sony did last gen, providing combined sales because of pr.

celador said: Wagram said: Might be more than last year but the number is still pretty unimpressive :/ When you consider the price drop, it isn't the most impressive of increases. But growth is growth I suppose

Bundles ans price cuts mostly have an effect in US and are mostly advertised there. MS is doing a bad job outside US and these numbers show this. This shouldn't surprise anyone.