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Forums - Sony Discussion - Prediction: PS5 will run at 4k

HoloDust on 02 July 2015
KBG29 said:
So, every PS console has had a 16x increase in CPU and GPU power, the same goes for RAM and memory bandwidth. This would put PS4 at around 25TFLOPS and 2.5TB/s. This is well above any card on the market right now, but by 2020 it will be a mid range card at best, and well within the PS5 gpu budget. Do people really think Naughty Dog wont be able to make a AAA game at 4K with that kind of power?

IMO, the idea that a new console would come out and not support the current TV standard or even make progress over its predecessor is ludacris. Although I guess it is not as bad as someone telling be that by iPhone 8 or 2 years from now they will be play call of duty at 4K on their big screen via mirroring.

Don't know where you get that idea. RSX in PS3 is rated at 228.8GFLOPS, PS4's GPU is rated at 1843GFLOPS - of course those FLOPS are not comparable, but even Sony folks said it's about 10x.

25TFLOPS would be wonderfull (although 29.5TFLOPS would be 16x, in PS4 FLOPS), but honestly I think we'll be lucky to see even 18.



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Zkuq on 02 July 2015

It's possible but I doubt it. 4k isn't taking off too quickly, I'd say, and it requires a lot of processing power. I think most people will be happy enough with 1080p for one more generation and devs realize that. They'd rather use the extra power for other stuff.



enlightenedmaster on 02 July 2015

PS5 will come no sooner than 2019 and will most likely release in 2020

it will outright play 4K games


i actually think it will play 5k or 10k games as 4k is 2012 technology

and

also APPLE TV will release by then and they are already making 5K mac's



ArchangelMadzz on 02 July 2015
sc94597 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:
HoloDust said:


That is too low for next gen. Fury X is 8.6TFLOPS card (that's just ~4.5x PS4), in GCN FLOPS (nVidia performs about the same with much less 'Maxwell' FLOPS), that manages barely above 30fps in 4K in most demanding games - I don't think anyone would be happy to see games looking the same as now, just in 4K.

Most likely scenario for 2019 is some 15TFLOPS, but even that is hardly enough for native 4K, once 1080p to 4K resolution penalty is taken into account and necessity to amaze audience with 'moah graphix' compared to 8th gen.

I mean, they could go with native 4K even with that, but forums will be burning with 'diminishing returns' threads.

My bet for around 15TFLOPS is mostly 1920x2160 to 2560x2160 resolutions.

15tflops is too little for 4K? really? r9 295x2 has 11.5 tflops. (dual gpu) and the r9 295x2 tears 4k. Easily enough for 4k 30fps and 40k 60fps with PC optimisation, let alone console optimisation. 15tflops would be easily enough to handle 4k.

With 8th generation graphics. Do you expect there to not be a chance in resource and asset quality in the 9th generaton?

Yes so we know 11.5tflops is more than enough to run 4K 30fps. the extra 3.5 tflops (2x ps4 power) will be enough to make it super pretty. Games like the Order and Uncharted 4 are made with 1.84 tflops. at 1080p.



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sc94597 on 02 July 2015
enlightenedmaster said:
4k is 2012 technology

This fragment here shows an immense lack of context. If we ignore context, then sure, 4k has been done for a while now. Unfortunately, consoles are limited by economic factors, such as manufacturing costs, and demand curves (nobody is going to spend $1000 on a console.) 

To call 4k "technology" disingenously treats it as something special. All it is is more pixels. It is more appropriate to say 4k-capable technology was first available to consumers upon X date. Even then, it is hard to define what "consumer" means, unless we contextualize the market - in this case Video Game consoles. 

"i actually think it will play 5k"

lol, what exactly will it play at 5k resolutions? Tetris? And what displays will have a 5k resolution (as opposed to 8k?) Do you expect these games to be upscaled from the 5k native? 

"also APPLE TV will release by then and they are already making 5K mac's"

Yep because I'm sure the aforementioned 5k mac's will be able to run late eighth generation and early ninth generation games at said resoultions on their mobile r9 290's /r9 290x's (the latter of which can't play Dragon Age Inquisition on Ultra above 30fps at 1080p.) Let's also disregard that said imacs cost $2,000. /sarcasm




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TimCliveroller on 02 July 2015

What the fuck is this obsession with resolution... really - I would rather go with for real GI / more advanced rendering techniques than waste resources on something that makes little difference.



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sc94597 on 02 July 2015
ArchangelMadzz said:
sc94597 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:
HoloDust said:


That is too low for next gen. Fury X is 8.6TFLOPS card (that's just ~4.5x PS4), in GCN FLOPS (nVidia performs about the same with much less 'Maxwell' FLOPS), that manages barely above 30fps in 4K in most demanding games - I don't think anyone would be happy to see games looking the same as now, just in 4K.

Most likely scenario for 2019 is some 15TFLOPS, but even that is hardly enough for native 4K, once 1080p to 4K resolution penalty is taken into account and necessity to amaze audience with 'moah graphix' compared to 8th gen.

I mean, they could go with native 4K even with that, but forums will be burning with 'diminishing returns' threads.

My bet for around 15TFLOPS is mostly 1920x2160 to 2560x2160 resolutions.

15tflops is too little for 4K? really? r9 295x2 has 11.5 tflops. (dual gpu) and the r9 295x2 tears 4k. Easily enough for 4k 30fps and 40k 60fps with PC optimisation, let alone console optimisation. 15tflops would be easily enough to handle 4k.

With 8th generation graphics. Do you expect there to not be a chance in resource and asset quality in the 9th generaton?

Yes so we know 11.5tflops is more than enough to run 4K 30fps. the extra 3.5 tflops (2x ps4 power) will be enough to make it super pretty. Games like the Order and Uncharted 4 are made with 1.84 tflops. at 1080p.

I doubt it. The next generation is going to take advantage of a lot of what we see in this. 

^ 4x GTX Titan X (26 Tflops; albeit sli'd; also note Nvidia > AMD /flop) 

Considering that 4k is four times the number of pixels as 1080p, I just can't see there being a noticeable improvement in the quality of games by only 7.5 x the raw floating points. 



Intrinsic on 02 July 2015
Sharpryno said:
Intrinsic said:

Many ps4 games aren't rendered in native 1080p??????

 

I know you are trying to make a point but I don't think you need to lie to do that. 

Yes, many PS4 games are not rendered in 1080p and many games on these consoles have had performance issues.  What is he lying about?

 

In 4 years, 4K will be so heavily outdated.  


It will surprise you how many PS4 games run at 1080p... And performance issues have been the bode of HD gaming since the PS360 gen... The only realistic way around it is brute forcing through code with really powerful hardware (PCs)

 

And about this thing about 4k being so outdated.... I think you're the numbers kinda guy that manufacturers love to sell things to. You should try reading up about resolution in relation to screen size and distance. 



enlightenedmaster on 02 July 2015

sc94597 said:

This fragment here shows an immense lack of context. If we ignore context, then sure, 4k has been done for a while now. Unfortunately, consoles are limited by economic factors, such as manufacturing costs, and demand curves (nobody is going to spend $1000 on a console.) 

but technological progress also increases in exponential terms

8gb in 2012 - $10

16gb in 2013 - $10,8gb in 2010 - $5

32gb in 2014 - $10,16gb in 2010 - $5

64gb in 2015 - $10,32gb in 2010 - $5

so in 2020,when PS5-XBOX NEXT are most likely to release,4K will be pretty cheap like 3DTV's are today

To call 4k "technology" disingenously treats it as something special. All it is is more pixels. It is more appropriate to say 4k-capable technology was first available to consumers upon X date.

comeon,are you in 5th grade that u are nitpicking such small things?

u get what i meant

that way HD or anything else isn't really technology jst an upgrade from its prior scienctific testing product

Even then, it is hard to define what "consumer" means, unless we contextualize the market - in this case Video Game consoles. 

really?

are you trying to impress me with that MBA student trying to impress his employers kind of slick talk?

lol, what exactly will it play at 5k resolutions? Tetris? And what displays will have a 5k resolution (as opposed to 8k?) Do you expect these games to be upscaled from the 5k native? 

well that way there is no need for 400ppi mobile phones or even 1080p tv's as most games or people don't really take advantage of it or shud i say the 4k tv's available in the market or the 3dtv's or the upcoming VR craze or 8 core mobile phones or 4gb ram mobile phones

all these are selling terms for electronic manufacturers,most of them aren't gonna add much value but still the tech is gonna progress

Yep because I'm sure the aforementioned 5k mac's will be able to run late eighth generation and early ninth generation games at said resoultions on their mobile r9 290's /r9 290x's (the latter of which can't play Dragon Age Inquisition on Ultra above 30fps at 1080p.) Let's also disregard that said imacs cost $2,000. /sarcasm

yeah but i wasn't really talking about playing on Mac's or Mac Pro or If you mean a PC............HEHE

i was just talking abt Screen tech of the Mac's

 

thanks for being so mature





sc94597 on 02 July 2015
enlightenedmaster said:

1. but technological progress also increases in exponential terms

8gb in 2012 - $10

16gb in 2013 - $10,8gb in 2010 - $5

32gb in 2014 - $10,16gb in 2010 - $5

64gb in 2015 - $10,32gb in 2010 - $5

so in 2020,when PS5-XBOX NEXT are most likely to release,4K will be pretty cheap like 3DTV's are today

2. comeon,are you in 5th grade that u are nitpicking such small things?

u get what i meant

that way HD or anything else isn't really technology jst an upgrade from its prior scienctific testing product

Even then, it is hard to define what "consumer" means, unless we contextualize the market - in this case Video Game consoles. 

3. really? 

are you trying to impress me with that MBA student trying to impress his employers kind of slick talk?

4. well that way there is no need for 400ppi mobile phones or even 1080p tv's as most games or people don't really take advantage of it or shud i say the 4k tv's available in the market or the 3dtv's or the upcoming VR craze or 8 core mobile phones or 4gb ram mobile phones

all these are selling terms for electronic manufacturers,most of them aren't gonna add much value but still the tech is gonna progress

 

 

 

5. yeah but i wasn't really talking about playing on Mac's or Mac Pro or If you mean a PC............HEHE

i was just talking abt Screen tech of the Mac's

 

 

thanks for being so mature



1. Now can you replicate that depiction with pixel count? I think it is a bad analogy to be honest. The rates at which higher resolutions have become standards in games are much slower than the growth of storage space. In the 7th generation 720p was a standard, in the 8th generation 1080p is a standard. That is only twice the pixel count after seven years. 4k entials about four times the pixel count of 1080p. 

2. I think it was a valid inquiry. 

Are only talking about displays? Not the actually capabilities of the platforms? "You get what I mean." Actually I don't. Do you mean 4k displays are outdated now? (They obviously are not if we look at market adoption rates.)  Or are you speaking of higher-end hardware being capable of 4k? The use of "technology" implied that you meant all of these things. 

3.  Yes, really. What's a standard in the PC or mobile market does not have to be a standard in the console-market. Hence, we must define "consumer" when making such observations. 

4. It is an important question, as it is what this thread has posited, will the next platforms be capable of running games at 4k? You said they'd clearly render games at 5k. I was first inquiring what kind of games you expect these platforms to play at 5k. I then inquired about the television display that will output in 5k. 4k is the future-standard, and 8k will be the standard after that. Will 8k displays be common by the time the PS5/XBTWo release? 

5. This is what I am talking about. http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/imac-retina?afid=p238%7CsVDEA0EFo-dc_mtid_1870765e38482_pcrid_52243311610_&cid=aos-us-kwg-pla-mac-slid-

and it was what I assumed you were talking about with, "and they are already making 5K mac's"

If you are just talking about the screen, how is that relevant to your prior point: "i actually think it will play 5k" ?