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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Fans Vs. Third-Party Developers & Entitlement

Super_Boom said:
Captain_Yuri said:

There is no denying that Nintendo fan's buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo exclusives but I highly doubt that the third party's gimped versions weren't the causes for the bad sales as well...

Stop trying to split the blame. Only Nintendo is bad. If you try to blame anyone else even remotely then you must be blind. Now go buy Mass Effect 3 with no idea what happens in the first two games.

In all seriousness though, I think Curl summed up my thoughts best. I'm not a charity, if you want me to purchase your product, make sure it's appealing to me. I'm not going to throw $60 at a company for a poorly optimized or supported game I'm not interested in solely in the hopes that the developer will someday maybe make a game I do want. It is sad that a lot of good games sold poorly despite a solid effort being put into them...but for a huge chunk of these games, the Wii U was clearly an afterthought. It's a really bad situation...for sure, but to blame one side and not the other makes absolutely zero sense...which really why the majority of the responses in this thread baffle me.

You would if you bought it.

Mass Effect 3 on WiiU includes a digital backstory comic, where you can even make decisions that players were able to do in ME and ME2 to customize your ME3 experience.

ME2 on PS3 had the same back when ME wasn't on the platform.

 

It's not the best way to start, but it's far from impossible. I mean look at the Witcher 3 right now. It's going to easily outsell the previous games, so there must be hundreds of thousands if not millions of players who haven't played the previous games. Story-wise they are far more connected than, let's say The Elder Scrolls.



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Wyrdness said:

Except Watch Dogs was already released WW and in bargain bins which throws your whole argument out the window, I can't go to any local shop now and buy XCX for dead cheap yet by the time WD arrived everyone could. that's why you comparing localization to the situation is flawed. When XCX arrives it would be a new release for the whole region and not available any other way the same can't be said for games like WD.

Look I know my example doesn´t fit the situation 100%. However my point, which I didn´t make clear enough (was kinda drunk), was that as a Wii U only owner these games are actually brand new. The release date on Wii U is the first time the game will be available to the consumer and thus to him/her a brand new experience.

I agree though, that everything should have its limitations. Such as a reaaaaaally late port not being full price (Like REmake) but up to a year after the "original release" seems toleratable to me.



      
Yup...RO friggin rocked  
Wyrdness said:
MikeRox said:


Selling less, and selling absolutely nothing as the Wii U ports were deemed to have done by 3rd parties are two completely different ball parks though.

There is also very little work required bringing a game across from much weaker hardware. This is not the case porting from PS3 to Wii U and even less so porting from much more capable systems.

Except no game sold absolutely nothing on the Wii U the games in question sold 300k - 400k on Wii U which is around the same and in some cases more then the games I mentioned, so yes it's the same ball park. Porting from 360 to PS3 was just as much of an issue because of the divided RAM set up it has which is why for years PS3 had issues in the versions of games on it.

 

Stuff like Need for Speed sold tens of thousands. Hell even the Vita version sold significantly more and no one is surprised the Vita versions stopped coming. You can cling to the notion that its lazy 3rd party devs if you want. And that releasing a few months earlier with a slightly better frame rate would change the tide. But the reality is pretty obvious for anyone looking at this objectively.

Also your examples of "poor" ps3 sales were Wii ports. That is a whole generational leap in hardware. This is the exact opposite going from current gen tech to last gen tech. If you don't think that requires significantly more time, effort and funding...



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

I don't think that's true... They're just not likely to buy crappy games from 3rd parties that many others line up in droves to buy. I know if they'd released that assassins creed rogue on the Wii U I'd have purchased it, but the only games we seem to get are Cars or Watchdog... I'm not about to buy crappy 3rd party games just to prove that we will.

If anyone here feels entitled it's the Devs and publishers who know outside of the wii u their crappy games will sell millions by virtue of their name and advertising alone, but the same trick doesn't work with the average Wii U owner.

There's plenty of 3rd party games I'd like to see on the Wii U, but we generally get the trash.



MikeRox said:

 

Stuff like Need for Speed sold tens of thousands. Hell even the Vita version sold significantly more and no one is surprised the Vita versions stopped coming. You can cling to the notion that its lazy 3rd party devs if you want. And that releasing a few months earlier with a slightly better frame rate would change the tide. But the reality is pretty obvious for anyone looking at this objectively.

Also your examples of "poor" ps3 sales were Wii ports. That is a whole generational leap in hardware. This is the exact opposite going from current gen tech to last gen tech. If you don't think that requires significantly more time, effort and funding...


Lost Planet isn't on Wii and the Wii games were enhanced and had added content and sold less which counters the whole point of late ports still selling. Wii U is more powerful then PS3 so you're porting to better hardware.



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zorg1000 said:
oniyide said:

 


Like I have stated 100 times before, completely unify the Nintendo ecosystem so that all games are available on all devices. No longer should Nintendo fragment their audience by splitting resources between two or more separate devices. Look at the the support Nintendo platforms have gotten in the last 9 months.

September 20-Disney Infinity: Marvel Super Heroes

September 26-Hyrule Warriors

October 2-Skylanders: Trap Team

October 3-Super Smash Bros. for 3DS

October 12-Pac Man and the Ghostly Adventures 2

October 21-Just Dance 2015

October 24-Fantasy Life

October 24-Bayonetta 2

October 24-Pokemon Art Academy

November 11-Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham

November 11-Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric/Shattered Crystal

November 21-Super Smash Bros. for Wii U

November 21-Pokemon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire

November 25-Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth

December 5-Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker

December 5-NES Remix Pack

February 13-The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D

February 13-Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate

February 18-Pokemon Shuffle

February 20-Kirby and the Rainbow Curse

March 5-Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars

March 13-Codename S.T.E.A.M.

March 20-Mario Party 10

March 20-Fossil Fighter: Frontier

March 31-Story of Seasons

April 2-Boxboy!

April 7-Etrian Mystery Dungeon

April 8-Pokemon Rumble World

April 10-Xenoblade Chronicles 3D

May 5-Devil Survivor 2: Record Breaker

May 12-Attack on Titan: Humanity in Chains

May 14-Stretchmo

May 22-Puzzles & Dragons+Super Mario Bros. Edition

May 29-Splatoon

And a whole bunch of indie & Virtual Console titles, so there is literally never a drought when u combine both sets of hardware. Power is not a major selling feature for Nintendo, so yes they should go with a device that is less powerful than the competitors but this time don't use expensive unnecessary features that raise the cost of hsrdware like 3D screens or Gamepad controllers.

Now that all games are on either device, there is less need to make 2 separate entries of their major franchises meaning the increased output of new ip which in turn means a higher chance of finding the next big craze like Pokémon or Minecraft.


@bolded to be fair you didnt mention this in this thread and to be honest its hard to keep up with who said what in this regard. Between you and me i am completly for this idea and i think thats what NX will be. But there are some on this very site who are againt it so its hard for me to keep up with who is for or against. Again I hope they actually do this.



oniyide said:
zorg1000 said:


Like I have stated 100 times before, completely unify the Nintendo ecosystem so that all games are available on all devices. No longer should Nintendo fragment their audience by splitting resources between two or more separate devices. Look at the the support Nintendo platforms have gotten in the last 9 months.

September 20-Disney Infinity: Marvel Super Heroes

September 26-Hyrule Warriors

October 2-Skylanders: Trap Team

October 3-Super Smash Bros. for 3DS

October 12-Pac Man and the Ghostly Adventures 2

October 21-Just Dance 2015

October 24-Fantasy Life

October 24-Bayonetta 2

October 24-Pokemon Art Academy

November 11-Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham

November 11-Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric/Shattered Crystal

November 21-Super Smash Bros. for Wii U

November 21-Pokemon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire

November 25-Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth

December 5-Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker

December 5-NES Remix Pack

February 13-The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D

February 13-Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate

February 18-Pokemon Shuffle

February 20-Kirby and the Rainbow Curse

March 5-Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars

March 13-Codename S.T.E.A.M.

March 20-Mario Party 10

March 20-Fossil Fighter: Frontier

March 31-Story of Seasons

April 2-Boxboy!

April 7-Etrian Mystery Dungeon

April 8-Pokemon Rumble World

April 10-Xenoblade Chronicles 3D

May 5-Devil Survivor 2: Record Breaker

May 12-Attack on Titan: Humanity in Chains

May 14-Stretchmo

May 22-Puzzles & Dragons+Super Mario Bros. Edition

May 29-Splatoon

And a whole bunch of indie & Virtual Console titles, so there is literally never a drought when u combine both sets of hardware. Power is not a major selling feature for Nintendo, so yes they should go with a device that is less powerful than the competitors but this time don't use expensive unnecessary features that raise the cost of hsrdware like 3D screens or Gamepad controllers.

Now that all games are on either device, there is less need to make 2 separate entries of their major franchises meaning the increased output of new ip which in turn means a higher chance of finding the next big craze like Pokémon or Minecraft.


@bolded to be fair you didnt mention this in this thread and to be honest its hard to keep up with who said what in this regard. Between you and me i am completly for this idea and i think thats what NX will be. But there are some on this very site who are againt it so its hard for me to keep up with who is for or against. Again I hope they actually do this.

That wasn't directed at u, I was just stating that it's something I have been saying a lot lately lol



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

DonFerrari said:
oniyide said:


IMHO yeah a bit. right before the series got super big. Wii version was selling on par. COD3 Wii was the 2nd best selling one. But that game SUCKED HARRRD! So the next one sells a little less. As teh other systems got more popular so did the series. It always sold best on MS anyway. PS3 version being damn near the same version albeit DLC coming late etc. caught some of the popularity. I think after the first one the damage was done. Plus its a very multiplayer online centric game, so most people want to play with there friends. Most people werent playing on Wii. 

The irony is the Wii versions were actually getting better quality wise over time but still didnt come close to PS360 version. 

People have no issue buying something that might not be the best version, no one is really trying to own like 3 consoles and a PC but it has to be a little difference. The difference between most PS360 multiplats were minute enough that unless you're one of us you arent going to notice. With Wii anyone half blind could see the difference.

It was second but sold a lot less than x360 version even with the difference in userbase.

 

On the subpar version, we have so much claim that graphics don't matter that I started believing.

 

Have sports franchise sold well on Wii before being chopped?


Alot of fanboys were making claims based on nothing and simply not true at all. Some straight lies too. As we clearly see with sales it does matter. Most people arent going to want to play a version of a game that is THAT inferior. 

No they really havent which again. Alot of Wii version of games were missing features and just straight ran like crap. Thats not on 3rds Ninty made the system they made and it just couldnt handle the games the PS360 could, people noticed rest is history.

Most GC multiplats were the worst selling but at least they sold close to the Xbox versions which make sense since those two systems sold alike



Wyrdness said:
oniyide said:
the late port excuse is silly because games dont stop being good all of a sudden. Bioshock didnt stop being good because it came out a year later on PS3. Its the same game it was before. If you are a single console owner why does it matter that a game came out a year before on a system you dont have anyway?


So why would anyone pay full price for Watch Dogs on Wii U 9 months later when it's in bargain bins everywhere else? It's a valid excuse, just being a good game doesn't offset this it's that kind of thinking that encourages developers to try the things people dislike today like microtransactions, the game was released in the holiday season right next to Smash on top of this as well and people wonder why a version handled by its developer like an illigitimate from out the blue didn't sell. It's as comical as Ubisoft delaying and releasing Rayman next to GTAV, if I was a single platform owner I wouldn't buy it either and opt for Smash.

I dont see how a late port equates to microtransactions. What? those arent even close to the same thing. You are really reaching. You are ignoring things like timed exclusives, are maybe the HW just flat sucking and it needed more time to be worked on(which was pretty much the case for PS3 initially)

Why would you pay full price? cause you dont have a choice, its the only way to play that game if you REALLY wanted to play in the first place. Doesnt matter if its bargain on a system you dont have. either get that system. buy it when it comes to your system or not all. Hell you could even wait till your version its the bargain bin. Rayman and GTA dont even have the same kind of audience, lets not pretend Rayman was going to sell well it wasnt. It hasnt since the original which ironically was PS exclusive. YOu know what was dumb making it WIi U exclusive in the first place. I would have bought Smash too, but i would have got Watchdogs eventually if I wanted it, do people not have money can they only get one game at a time right at that time? hell could have bought it the next month. People just need to admit that really werent interested in the game in the first place. Its ok.



Wyrdness said:
DonFerrari said:


Several games that where exclusive to X360 when launched on PS3 after 1 or 2 years (meaning bargaing bin for the X360 version, much more than 9 months bargain bin of WD) and still sold great on it.

I'll also highlight that the are examples of counters to the games you're saying sold well after release, former exclusive games like No More Heroes and Muramasa sold like trash on PS3, even games like Goldeneye that fall more in line with the main stream sold far less on 360 and PS3 in fact the Wii version outsold both of them combined. Lost Planet is also another one that didn't sell as well arriving late on PS3.

becasue those games sold gangbusters originally? no they didnt. IMHO those games were mediocore at best. Truth is PS360 had WAY more options than Wii ever had in regards to those genres. NMHs arrived much later on PS3 and that game wasnt that great to begin with. Why play that when you have accest to Bayo or God of War? you wouldnt. Muramasa didnt come out on PS3 so i dont know where that came from. you mean Vita? dont have to explain that one.

GE was a great game...on WIi. I bought that game it was the best game on Wii in terms of FPS. Now on PS360 its mediocore. You gonna but that up agains the CODs, Bioshocks, Killzones, Halos? lol. Nope doesnt even hold a candle. IMHO it just shows how lacking Wii was in those genres.