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Forums - Politics Discussion - Britain is too tolerant and should interfere more in people's lives

mtachi said:
Seriously... Fuck David Cameron and fuck the conservatives they're all shit. And we've got at least 5 more years of this bull. Yay


No different than what Milliband wanted to bring in with his islamophobia laws.Look it up.

This is happening everywhere now, just saw yet another article saying how bad cash is and how great it would be if it was banned and all digital.



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I'm sure he just really wanted a sequel to braveheart



 

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Wyrdness said:
SuperNova said:
So, why did anyone vote for this guy again?

Are british people really so desperate to exit the EU, that they put up with this?
Especially when the entire EUs reaction to that 'threat' was basically a collective shrug?
I'm sorry Britain, I usually really like you, but sometimes I just don't get you.


Our public over here are gullible that's why, the majority believed a campaign by newspapers against Ed Milliband on the economy and highlighted Cameron doing well with the economy when the are in fact many different factors behind the figures. Unemployment fell under Cameron because of zero hour contracts were you are working for free essentially and don't have as many working rights, the British economy would have gone awry back in the recession no matter who was in government but Cameron pinned it solely on Labour when in fact any other party would have run into the same problems.

The UK economy is improving but not benefitting anyone in the country apart from the rich few and that's all Osbourne's approach will ever do, contrary to popular belief the whole EU issue is more even in the UK then us wanting to get out, leaving the EU would be disastrous for us being a financial capital in the world through London.

And this isn't a showing into how gullible YOU are, buying into the bullshit idea that Zero hour contracts are the real reason behind the unemployment figures, when they're not. The UK economy almost certainly benefitting many people in the country that aren't rich at all. Leaving the EU would not change a fucking thing, Europe needs us far far more than we need them, we sadly need the US economy to be doing well. Europe is fucked, is going backwards and all the money from the souther states is going north, in particular to Germany. It's the most corrupt bullshit we've ever concieved and needs to die for the good of not just the UK, but all of Europe as a whole.



It's times like these that I'm glad I don't live in Britain then again, I never did...
Anyway, what the hell is wrong with this guy? It's like he read 1984 and didn't realize Big Brother was the bad guy XD Hopefully no one there actually supports this guy... right?



Groundking said:

And this isn't a showing into how gullible YOU are, buying into the bullshit idea that Zero hour contracts are the real reason behind the unemployment figures, when they're not. The UK economy almost certainly benefitting many people in the country that aren't rich at all. Leaving the EU would not change a fucking thing, Europe needs us far far more than we need them, we sadly need the US economy to be doing well. Europe is fucked, is going backwards and all the money from the souther states is going north, in particular to Germany. It's the most corrupt bullshit we've ever concieved and needs to die for the good of not just the UK, but all of Europe as a whole.


You're calling someone gullible but dismiss the effect the EU would have on UK, looks like someone has been buying into the right wing bull, I work in finance and deal with businesses believe me it will have a huge effect why do you think every Government has been reluctant as far as the EU goes. If it made no difference we would have left already, businesses alone who are our back bone will tell you straight leaving the EU could hurt us hard especially as an importing based country, understand what being part of the EU brings before you make that laughable staement, UK needs EU just as much as they need us don't get it twisted that's why we haven't left already. Cameron is aware of the chaos which is why even as a Tory he has dragged his feet on the issue as the rich businesses are against it and it would hurt the Tories for decades if we left the EU and businesses suffered as a result, they would be out for another 20 plus years.

You really think the poor are benefitting? Bedroom tax, benefit cuts with more on the way, wages below the living wage as inflation carries on as normal, NHS in disarrays, frozen pay in some sectors etc... Don't make me laugh.



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"The package of powers, first proposed in March, would allow courts to force a person to send their tweets and Facebook posts to the police for approval."

Wait, what? That seems like a lot of resources to regulate something pretty much impossible to stop.



Wyrdness said:
Groundking said:

And this isn't a showing into how gullible YOU are, buying into the bullshit idea that Zero hour contracts are the real reason behind the unemployment figures, when they're not. The UK economy almost certainly benefitting many people in the country that aren't rich at all. Leaving the EU would not change a fucking thing, Europe needs us far far more than we need them, we sadly need the US economy to be doing well. Europe is fucked, is going backwards and all the money from the souther states is going north, in particular to Germany. It's the most corrupt bullshit we've ever concieved and needs to die for the good of not just the UK, but all of Europe as a whole.


You're calling someone gullible but dismiss the effect the EU would have on UK, looks like someone has been buying into the right wing bull, I work in finance and deal with businesses believe me it will have a huge effect why do you think every Government has been reluctant as far as the EU goes. If it made no difference we would have left already, businesses alone who are our back bone will tell you straight leaving the EU could hurt us hard especially as an importing based country, understand what being part of the EU brings before you make that laughable staement, UK needs EU just as much as they need us don't get it twisted that's why we haven't left already. Cameron is aware of the chaos which is why even as a Tory he has dragged his feet on the issue as the rich businesses are against it and it would hurt the Tories for decades if we left the EU and businesses suffered as a result, they would be out for another 20 plus years.

You really think the poor are benefitting? Bedroom tax, benefit cuts with more on the way, wages below the living wage as inflation carries on as normal, NHS in disarrays, frozen pay in some sectors etc... Don't make me laugh.

Any European federal state (which is what the EU wants to become) should be concerned with promoting prosperity, justice, freedom, and peace, otherwise what's the point of having it? 

Even if the Euro fiasco is ignored, the EU is burdening it's member states with phenomenal bureaucratic burdens that are costing significant percentages of GDP, so prosperity is out. The EU courts ignore or reinterpret laws to promote political agendas, so justice is out too. Individual and political freedoms are shrinking rather than growing under the EU, as the populace has no democratic influence on policy and are being subjected to a continuous stream of regulations. As far as peace is concerned, the EU has a record of bullying small nations for reasons of political convenience rather than realpolitik, while ignoring necessary confrontations with countries like Russia, Iran, or China. Add to that the complete lack of sanctions towards the rampant corruption in the administration, and you have an organization that is tolerated by the European poulace because their politicians claim the EU is necessary, rather than enthusiastically supported. 

For most European nations, the EU is a step down as far as the aforementioned categories are concerned, so why should the populace support it? The second it stopped being a treaty of trade and prosperity, it became a project by and for politicians. 
As it has no solid foundation amongst the people, I suspect that it will collapse like a house of cards the minute politicians no longer see an advantage in supporting it. And most likely noone will misss it. We don't need the EU, France doesn't need the EU and Germany certainly don't need the EU and for Spain and Italy the EU has been a truly toxic political union, leading them to suffer all kinds of economic problems. Businesses don't want us to leave the EU as businesses simply don't like uncertainty (look at how the stock market rebound after the Tories won the Majority last week), but long term it's absolutely better for the countries businesses to leave the EU. The way people talk about how it will be bad for business simply make me laugh, there is absolutely no chance that we wouldn't continue to have free trade with the (important) European countries for the simple fact that the European countries would suffer more by any tarif applied to trade, they're never going to let up free trade between ourselves and the continent, it's simply not going to happen.

The Bedroom tax is crap I unfortunately agree, but with how dire the housing crisis is something needed to attempted to be done, it's just failed spectacularily. Benefit cuts are needed as the Benefit system is far to easily abused, and the state needed to reduce size desperately. Sadly some people have fallen through the cracks, but that's going to happen anyway, and less and less people will fall through the cracks as employment continues to rise. The Living wage is the biggest load of shit I've ever heard. I mean what even IS the 'living wage'? The NHS is in dissaray due to decades of underinvestment, a population that's growing far too fast for it to keep up, and people abusing the thing. It would be under a lot less stress if people didn't go in for every little thing wrong with them, or got perscriptions for stuff like Paracetamol for free just because they can. In some sectors, yes, but real wages have been going up (minus bonuses) at around 2% for the past year and a half at least, whilst this 'inflation crysis' simply doesn't exist with inflation at basically 0 for a year and a half. 



Ka-pi96 said:
Groundking said:

Even if the Euro fiasco is ignored, the EU is burdening it's member states with phenomenal bureaucratic burdens that are costing significant percentages of GDP, so prosperity is out. The EU courts ignore or reinterpret laws to promote political agendas, so justice is out too. Individual and political freedoms are shrinking rather than growing under the EU, as the populace has no democratic influence on policy and are being subjected to a continuous stream of regulations. As far as peace is concerned, the EU has a record of bullying small nations for reasons of political convenience rather than realpolitik, while ignoring necessary confrontations with countries like Russia, Iran, or China. Add to that the complete lack of sanctions towards the rampant corruption in the administration, and you have an organization that is tolerated by the European poulace because their politicians claim the EU is necessary, rather than enthusiastically supported. 

Umm, isn't that what those EU elections are for?

They only elect MEP's, and MEP's don't really have any power, as it's almost always the unelected beurocrats the govern policy in the EU.



“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
― Frank Zappa



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Groundking said:

Any European federal state (which is what the EU wants to become) should be concerned with promoting prosperity, justice, freedom, and peace, otherwise what's the point of having it? 

Even if the Euro fiasco is ignored, the EU is burdening it's member states with phenomenal bureaucratic burdens that are costing significant percentages of GDP, so prosperity is out. The EU courts ignore or reinterpret laws to promote political agendas, so justice is out too. Individual and political freedoms are shrinking rather than growing under the EU, as the populace has no democratic influence on policy and are being subjected to a continuous stream of regulations. As far as peace is concerned, the EU has a record of bullying small nations for reasons of political convenience rather than realpolitik, while ignoring necessary confrontations with countries like Russia, Iran, or China. Add to that the complete lack of sanctions towards the rampant corruption in the administration, and you have an organization that is tolerated by the European poulace because their politicians claim the EU is necessary, rather than enthusiastically supported. 

For most European nations, the EU is a step down as far as the aforementioned categories are concerned, so why should the populace support it? The second it stopped being a treaty of trade and prosperity, it became a project by and for politicians. 
As it has no solid foundation amongst the people, I suspect that it will collapse like a house of cards the minute politicians no longer see an advantage in supporting it. And most likely noone will misss it. We don't need the EU, France doesn't need the EU and Germany certainly don't need the EU and for Spain and Italy the EU has been a truly toxic political union, leading them to suffer all kinds of economic problems. Businesses don't want us to leave the EU as businesses simply don't like uncertainty (look at how the stock market rebound after the Tories won the Majority last week), but long term it's absolutely better for the countries businesses to leave the EU. The way people talk about how it will be bad for business simply make me laugh, there is absolutely no chance that we wouldn't continue to have free trade with the (important) European countries for the simple fact that the European countries would suffer more by any tarif applied to trade, they're never going to let up free trade between ourselves and the continent, it's simply not going to happen.

The Bedroom tax is crap I unfortunately agree, but with how dire the housing crisis is something needed to attempted to be done, it's just failed spectacularily. Benefit cuts are needed as the Benefit system is far to easily abused, and the state needed to reduce size desperately. Sadly some people have fallen through the cracks, but that's going to happen anyway, and less and less people will fall through the cracks as employment continues to rise. The Living wage is the biggest load of shit I've ever heard. I mean what even IS the 'living wage'? The NHS is in dissaray due to decades of underinvestment, a population that's growing far too fast for it to keep up, and people abusing the thing. It would be under a lot less stress if people didn't go in for every little thing wrong with them, or got perscriptions for stuff like Paracetamol for free just because they can. In some sectors, yes, but real wages have been going up (minus bonuses) at around 2% for the past year and a half at least, whilst this 'inflation crysis' simply doesn't exist with inflation at basically 0 for a year and a half. 


Only Country that doesn't need the EU is Germany, with out it the businesses would be thrown into chaos as a host of new charges and taxes could come into play just to conduct business with the rest of EU, that kind of uncertainty is a nightmare for investors who create jobs for the country in the first place, this isn't just the stock markets I'm talking about, trade which has always been a key benefit would increase in costs. Guess who that's going to be passed on to, the consumers and the UK as a heavily import based country would be hammered, any money we'd save from leaving would be eaten up regardless, travelling through Europe would become even more of an issue and the country would be even more reliant on the financial sector for income.  Countries like Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and such had economic issues for a while, in fact some of these countries would be in bigger trouble if the EU weren't there.

You think we're any better at political agendas then the EU? We're the UK we pioneered and wrote the damn book on agendas, we engaged in an illegal war against Iraq where our leaders later admitted the was no evidence to, we're heavily responsible for the chaos in Libya which contributed to the rise of radical groups and our own soldiers injured as a result can't even get what's owed to them because the Governments for decades don't want to pay out. The whole damn world is built on political agendas, you know why Iran isn't getting hit? Because all Middle Eastern oil has to pass through their waters to get to the rest of the world, attack them and they'll just start sinking ships with oil which would f**k all of us here up and they're a rich country as well even more the most western countries. Russia has the largest known oil reserves and is no push over, that's why little is being done as well and China is an upcoming powerhouse and who are self sufficient and would be a nightmare to fight due to their size and where they're situated, many of the goods in the world are manufactured there such as Apple products so get into a confrontation with them and businesses across the world are going to suffer. Our mob in the west are built on political agendas and always will be so don't fool yourself into thinking it's an EU thing as it'll continue even if we left only it would be the Government pushing an agenda.

Benefit cuts aren't needed it's proper regulation that is needed, someone who geniunely needs them and doesn't abuse them would get targeted by the regulators while the same people you see on the benefit street program who blatantly abuse the system would be ignored. The Tories spun the whole fiasco to make it look like cuts were the only answer when in fact it's always been their agenda and many people on them are genuine and need them, if you don't know what the living wage is you really shouldn't even be arguing the case, living wage is the calculated wage under current economic circumstances to just get by hence the name and many people fall below it. The Wages that have gone up that aren't those of Bankers are still a fair margin below of what people need to get by, the NHS has had issues yes but it's always when the Tories turn up that it falls into chaos as they've always hated it hence why they've always tried to suggest it should be privatized which surprise surprise would make some company out there rich who would no doubt be one of their backers.

What we need from the EU is not to leave but control of our borders like Australia does, in that regard I'd agree the EU is hampering us as immigration has an impact on all aspects in a country, we're currently a circus thoug, our government for years are targeting hard working immigrants while leaving those who come over to abuse the system alone, that's only going to send one message out.