The first thread in this section with a matter that is extremely interesting to me.

I just saw the latest segment on the Dailyshow about the religious freedom act and how businesses should not have the right to discriminate against people based on their sexuality or whatever.

The thing is, I don't really get that. Why would a private business do not have the right to decide which customers to serve and which not?  It's their business and they already have their rules of cunduct and dress codes where they can deny anyone who does not obey to these rules. But when it comes to sexuality it suddenly crosses a line?

Since when is getting service at any private business a right?

The same goes hand in hand with employment. Why would I as a business owner not have the right to decide who I employ? Who says I have to employ gays or women or handicapped people? Since when is getting employment a right?

I really don't get this. It's not like there are no other businesses who allow any sort people to be serviced or employed. And if I go down because I lose business because of my stance then so be it. What part do civil rights groups and the government have in how I want to do my business?

It's just really weird that everyone talks about equality and rights but allowing an employer to decide who he is going to do business with is suddenly bad?

I also like to say that I do not own a business, don't have any friends or family who own a business or have any intention to ever own a business. I also have nothing against any minorities, sexualities, genders or whatever. I just like freedom.

Here is a little picture that has no civil rights group up in arms

It's a confusing thing, the businesses in their own right should be allowed to throw anyone out for whatever reason. Yet there are a few things that you have to consider in this instant. For example:

1) It's being written in law that a person can discriminate because of their faith. People are focussing on the fact it means those of strong faith can discriminate against gay couples.
2) Why is being discrimination against gay people any different to any other form discrimination? If there was a faith where someone decided to not serve someone of a different ethnicity, this law would not have been passed surely (I wouldn't give it long before this comes up). What if your faith dictates men and women should eat separately in your restaurant?
3) How would the business know it is a gay couple unless they showed affection in public or announced it as they walked in? Okay so making a cake for a gay wedding might be obvious but not other (most) instances.
4) What person owning a business purposely turns away good paying customers because of the customer's sexuality? The customer made a good choice going to that business, if you reject them, that is bad for your business only as they will tell others not to use you.

On the employment thing you mention, no one is forcing anyone to employ someone based on sexuality, race or gender (unless it's specifically required) but rejecting someone, who could be very qualified and good for the position, because of these things is not right... even if it is your freedom to do so.

I believe that people should be able to turn away customers/not hire employee for any reason. I also think people who do that are trash and I will never shop at any of their business.

Truth is that nowdays the number of business that would do this is absurdly low as the loss of business/reputation is to great to bear and if some people wants to segregate themselves from the rest of society they can fuck off and do so for all I care.

I do make and exception for discriminating against children though in some circumstances.

Here's the good news:

In 2012, the election turnout was 54.9% of American citizens over the age of 18. The winner, Obama, received 51.1% of that vote. This means that the "anti-business candidate" basically convinced around one quarter of a subset of people living in America. The rest disagreed, or simply did not care enough to vote.

MSNBC, CNN, HLN, and Fox News typically receive around 2 million viewers, combined, at peak times. They are the main culprits in driving up this hysteria over things like this shit in Indiana. 2 million viewers. In a population of 320m+ individuals. That's less than 2/3 of one percent.

Why is this good news? Because it shows that, actually, most people just don't care. People on reddit, tumblr, imgur, or whatever are in a bubble. Chick Fil A is a thriving business despite the owner's views on gay marriage. Hobby Lobby survived the "shitstorm" relating to its religious views. Companies that take stances either way on just about any issue are going to be fine, because, ultimately, in the real world, nobody gives a fuck.

I personally support freedom of association, and, with that, the right to discriminate. I'd never run my business that way, it'd be stupid. I also will tend to prefer businesses who take stances I agree with. Not enough to forgo something I want, but if I have a choice between a company who's ethics I approve, and who's ethics I don't, I'll go with those I approve of. If some business had a problem with me and didn't want to serve. Yeah, I'd be offended, but that's where it'd end. I'd just go elsewhere. There's no monopoly on craft shops, bakeries, or chicken sandwiches.

EDIT: Actually, I had this recently. I wasn't allowed to rent an apartment because the landlord refused to rent to white people. I got offended, but I moved on. It's his decision, not mine. I could have signed that contract, paid the deposit, and made every month's rent on time no problem for him. He decided to forgo that, and perhaps wait longer and potentially accept a tenant who'd end up causing him more issues. My current landlord cannot speak English, but she tries, and we have a great client-server relationship, she gets her rent on time, no noise complaints, and her apartment well looked after, I get a roof over my head, and a landlord who actually wants to serve me. It's all good.

I guess I'll give my take on the issue. I've been a co-owner in one small business and a sole proprietor in another, both store-fronts with multiple employees, both successful and in operation for multiple years before I sold. My mother owned a successful restaurant for several years, where I worked throughout high school.

The question, as I see it, is about fairness and having valid and logical rules which apply to everyone. What does someone being gay, or black, or hispanic, or white have to do with my business? If I make an exclusionary rule, does it serve a positive purpose for my business? I think part of being a business owner is having a responsibility to being professional and treating everyone who walks in the door as equal potential business partners UNLESS they do something which takes away that privilege.

I just really can't see a reason why I would ever not do business with someone because of something which has nothing to do with the business itself. It makes no sense to me. It would be purely selfish and putting my own personal opinions ahead of the interests of the business. A person who does that on a broad basis deserves to lose their stake.

I agree with that freedom in principle, but I'm afraid it doesn't work very well in practice. Discriminatory choices shouldn't be a thing (including things unrelated to sexuality). On the other hand, I'm fine with all other applications of freedom here, I think. Probably not entirely true, but I can't think of any I wouldn't agree with.

Here is a small example. A restaurant which lies in a very right wing and deeply religious neighborhood. It's bad business for me if my majority of customers start to puke out my food when they see a gay couple kissing or just holding hands.

There are reasons for everything. Be it business wise or just personal. Personal priciples and ideologies are stronger when it comes to things that only have a very minor impact on business. For example not having the business of 0.1 of my customers who are gay. Or 0.1% of my customers who wear metal themed t-shirts when I don't like metal at all. They can tell their gay and metal friends that they shouldn't come here but I wouldn't give a fuck because it has next to no impact on my business but gives me inner peace instead.

The problem here is that for these decisions which affect no one but me and my customers I get the hate and threats of all the internet SJWs combined which may really hurt my business when they start picketing my store. I don't think that is really fair, especially coming from people who proclaim they're for equality and anti discrimination.

It's the old vicious circle of not having freedoms without taking some from someone else.

Keep in mind that small businesses DO hire and fire for all kinds of reasons, pretty much for any reason they want. They just can't SAY, "I didn't hire you because you're a homosexual."

I know, working in the southern United States, that I'd never, ever let an employer know before-hand that I'm not a christian. That's a very, very common-place discrimination, but it's one that would be almost impossible to prove.

Theres a distinction between that image you posted and actual discrimination regarding something someone is unable to change such as their race/sexuality. How many times have you been declined service because of your person? Not attire, but who you literally are. Its not even comparable.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from because ultimately it comes under "freedom", but so does killing someone. At the end of the day we live in a society, you pay taxes and you don't really have a choice, the idea of unlimited freedom isn't feasible whilst you're part of an established system which true goal is to provide everyone with a standard of living.  This kind of "freedom" only sets society back, so its completely understandable that they people campaign against it and although I feel like society has got far enough that this doesn't need to be imposed by law, I  think its good that its discouraged.

Nobody is forcing you for now but I can already see that women quota coming. I think people need to acknowledge that there are differences between people and genders that matter. If I want a young dynamic team that only consists of men because I think a woman would disrupt that dynamic somehow then I don't deserve to be called a shauvinist or to be forced to hire a woman or even worse, be sued because of discrimination. Hiring a woman would benefit no one in that situation, yet it is demanded by society and soon maybe even by law.

It's really a weird time we're living in where nobody knows what should be socially accepted and everybody is afraid to disagree to not end up as a social pariah. Even though I don't own a business I feel pressured by this society.