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Star Fox U motion controls are not required confirmed

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spemanig said:

I think you're harshly overestimating how many fans there still are to alienate. It may as well be pikmin as it is now. That's how antiquated this whole score based game concept is and why Star Fox sells less and less.


And I think you overestimate the wonders of a (westernized) story mode for a niche game on the Wii U :P

Different story for successful consoles maybe. Or games that are actually famous or get proper ad campaigns. You can say "a huge story, good marketing and polished, no bugs, [and so on].... would make this game a crazy seller" about any and every game actually.



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spemanig said:

Apparently that's what Star Fox fans want. "Star Fox 64 in HD," they say.

spemanig said:

I think you're harshly overestimating how many fans there still are to alienate. It may as well be pikmin as it is now. That's how antiquated this whole score based game concept is and why Star Fox sells less and less.

I disagree.

Well first of all, most people who played and loved Star Fox 64 back in the day have just forgotten about it and aren't Star Fox fans at all. They probably don't even know there's a new one coming out. Based on what I see from the actual fanbase, I've actually seen way more love go to the GameCube games instead of 64, which is just sad. But still, I think a lot of people don't want just Star Fox 64 in HD - even the ones who do like the core concept and gameplay of Star Fox 64 want way more than that for the new game.

If the score based game concept was so antiquated mobile games wouldn't sell as much as they do. I mean sure, it's a completely different situation, but it's still there to show it works. Star Fox Adventures sold half as much as 64 because it was nothing like Star Fox at all, not featuring any of the score based gameplay, barely any space shooting missions, and even lacking a major character until well into the game, plus being a borefest. Assault sold half as much because it came late into an unpopular console's lifecycle (an unpopularity I believe was forged by titles like The Wind Waker, Star Fox Adventures, Super Mario Sunshine and some others), and it was also an average game at best, and the whole arcade feel of it was completely lost. I never felt any incentive to beat my high scores in that game, ever - because it was too slow and unengaging in the Arwing missions and just... bad on the ground ones. And Star Fox Command sold half as much because it was crap.

But seriously, I don't think the whole score based concept is antiquated at all, but to be honest I don't think it was ever the reason Star Fox 64 was as big of a hit as it was. It's just a really popular IP. People love it for what it is. It's only natural that when Nintendo screwed it up over and over with the newer games it was going to sell less.



This new Star Fox should copy Project Sylpheed. I think that'd please everyone.

 

EDIT: That being said, I'm glad motion controls are not required!



mZuzek said:

I disagree.

Well first of all, most people who played and loved Star Fox 64 back in the day have just forgotten about it and aren't Star Fox fans at all. They probably don't even know there's a new one coming out. Based on what I see from the actual fanbase, I've actually seen way more love go to the GameCube games instead of 64, which is just sad. But still, I think a lot of people don't want just Star Fox 64 in HD - even the ones who do like the core concept and gameplay of Star Fox 64 want way more than that for the new game.

If the score based game concept was so antiquated mobile games wouldn't sell as much as they do. I mean sure, it's a completely different situation, but it's still there to show it works. Star Fox Adventures sold half as much as 64 because it was nothing like Star Fox at all, not featuring any of the score based gameplay, barely any space shooting missions, and even lacking a major character until well into the game, plus being a borefest. Assault sold half as much because it came late into an unpopular console's lifecycle (an unpopularity I believe was forged by titles like The Wind Waker, Star Fox Adventures, Super Mario Sunshine and some others), and it was also an average game at best, and the whole arcade feel of it was completely lost. I never felt any incentive to beat my high scores in that game, ever - because it was too slow and unengaging in the Arwing missions and just... bad on the ground ones. And Star Fox Command sold half as much because it was crap.

But seriously, I don't think the whole score based concept is antiquated at all, but to be honest I don't think it was ever the reason Star Fox 64 was as big of a hit as it was. It's just a really popular IP. People love it for what it is. It's only natural that when Nintendo screwed it up over and over with the newer games it was going to sell less.


I should elaborate a little bit, because I don't feel I was clear. When I said that score based games were antiquated, I didn't mean as a game concept; I meant as a $60 premium product. People aren't willing to pay $60 today for a score based game that can basically be finished in a few hours or less. It's a miracle that SF643D actually sold 860K. But that's on a 50m installed base console. 

There's definitely more love for Star Fox 64, though, at least on the internet. And I love that game too. And if Nintendo wants to keep Star Fox games like that, and have it be a relevant franchise today, they need to be modest in pricing it, because a game like that just isn't worth $60 anymore. That doesn't mean it's bad, but unless they make the game like 10 times longer to complete, people are going to stop buying it as soon as they here how short it is. It's not a powerful enough name anymore to continue that momentum because "it's a Star Fox game."

But what they should be doing is building off the Assault model. No matter your opinion on that game, any gripes fall more on the fact that nothing was executed as well as it could have been. Everything would have been done better. The formula for that game wasn't the problem. The execution was. That's why I think that Platinum would be an excellent team to work on Star Fox. Improve the flying missions, and revamp the on foot missions with Vanquish/Bayonetta-like gameplay. That is a $60 Star Fox game.



Well, this is new.

Read.

spemanig said:

I should elaborate a little bit, because I don't feel I was clear. When I said that score based games were antiquated, I didn't mean as a game concept; I meant as a $60 premium product. People aren't willing to pay $60 today for a score based game that can basically be finished in a few hours or less. It's a miracle that SF643D actually sold 860K. But that's on a 50m installed base console. 

There's definitely more love for Star Fox 64, though, at least on the internet. And I love that game too. And if Nintendo wants to keep Star Fox games like that, and have it be a relevant franchise today, they need to be modest in pricing it, because a game like that just isn't worth $60 anymore. That doesn't mean it's bad, but unless they make the game like 10 times longer to complete, people are going to stop buying it as soon as they here how short it is. It's not a powerful enough name anymore to continue that momentum because "it's a Star Fox game."

But what they should be doing is building off the Assault model. No matter your opinion on that game, any gripes fall more on the fact that nothing was executed as well as it could have been. Everything would have been done better. The formula for that game wasn't the problem. The execution was. That's why I think that Platinum would be an excellent team to work on Star Fox. Improve the flying missions, and revamp the on foot missions with Vanquish/Bayonetta-like gameplay. That is a $60 Star Fox game.

Now that's a bit better. I do think a $60 priced "Star Fox 64 HD" wouldn't be unacceptable if it had what SF64 didn't, and that is length. It would obviously have to be a much, much bigger game to justify the price. When I look back at Assault, I see what could have been the Star Fox game, because there were loads of good ideas behind it - it's just that the execution was piss poor. And it was also pathetically short and not replayable, which I think was it's biggest downfall, because while Star Fox 64 was super short, it made up for it with the huge replayability provided by the branching paths, medals and other unlockables you could get by playing through levels differently and trying to get high scores. Assault, on the other hand, was a 3-hour long crapfest that I never felt like playing again.

But yeah, it had good ideas behind it. It could've worked. But still, I don't feel like that sort of ground mission works in Star Fox, even if they were poorly executed. I am yet to play Bayonetta 1 and 2, but from the little bits that I've seen here and there it does feel like it could work for Star Fox - hell, a friend of mine forced me to play through the Star Fox easter egg in that game and I have to say, as little as I understood what the hell was going on, it was pretty good. I do think Platinum would be the best company Nintendo could choose to help them out with the game, as they would give it that over-the-top feel and go crazy with the gameplay and stuff going on, while Miyamoto/Nintendo would still be there to hold Platinum back whenever they went a bit too far in the over-the-topness and stuff.

But for some reason I don't think Miyamoto would ever work with Platinum Games.



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I'm glad they are giving us the option to use different control schemes.

I'm very glad they are giving us motion controls and I look forward to playing this through the gamepad.





Feel free to check out my stream on twitch 

I think its great for people will hate/don't want to use gyro control, but lets not forget what we really need, online Starfox. (Or is it just me?)



 

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Sin & Punishment 2 on Wii is a great template for a modern Starfox game in my opinion.

It's a lot longer than Starfox 64, retains the epic arcade action, and has none of the flaws that bogged down Adventures and Assault. Sell it for a slightly reduced $40 USD like Captain Toad, and voila, you're set.



Confirm wiimote + nunchuck, already!



It's too early to assume relief yet ...