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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U, the only Nintendo home console without a must have Mario platformer?

LGF on 20 October 2014
Experimental42 said:
LGF said:
 

3D World is arguably the best "refined" entry, hugh? I would say most people think Galaxy 2 is. And critics also (Meta 97 vs 93).

Also, I don't agree that 64 was that revolutionary and sunshine was just a refinement. 64 was at the edge of a revolutionary era (the transition from 2D to 3D). But other games at that time "crafted 3D movement and the camera for virtually every 3D game in existence today" (Tomb Raider, for instance). Sunshine on the other hand, introduced new gameplay mechanics and environments. Also, like 64, was at the state-of-the-art in terms of technology: graphics, physics, etc. Since that time, no more Nintendo games did that. The Galaxies were inovative, yes, but also not more than Sunshine and not as impressive in tech for sure. This 3D World is the first step back in the main Mario series. It may be fun, it may be a solid title, but it's a more limited game.

Super Mario 3D World was heavily stigmatized before its release, so it was doomed to a lower score than galaxy 2 from the start.

Tomb Raider came out 4 months later, had tank controls, and had a camera you couldn't control nearly as much. Mario 64 used full 360 analog and a dynamic camera system. If you've ever played a game where the right stick controls the camera, you can thank Mario 64.

Sunshine added some mechanics but they were simply refinements. They added a few new jumps/powerups and made you wash things. The environments, when stripped of their sparkle are no different than Mario 64. That's not innovation. Especially when standing next to revolutionizing 3D gaming (Mario 64), or revolutionizing the platforming genre through spherical platforms and gravity mechanics (Mario Galaxy).

Super Mario 3D World is a successor to Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario World, not Mario 64/Sunchine/Galaxy. Quite frankly it should have been called Super Mario Bros. 4 and it would have sold better and avoided prerelease stigma, but we know Nintendo's track record on naming things these days. In light of that fact, Super Mario 3D World has all the best elements of Super Mario Bros 1-3 and Super Mario World (except the cape and awesome flight mechanic that came with it) combined into one package, refined to perfection, and placed into 3D world with the most responsive controls in the entire series.

Actually, I think 3D World received a too high score. Looking at games that have grown by x4 in terms of budget receiving 70's and considered the best in the series by those very same reviews (Killzone Shadowfall), I think 3D World was really well treated. But that's another discussion.

Tomb Raider came out 4 months later, but was developed at the same time or do you think that in those 4 months they would implement the "inovations" of SM64?? Those inovations are so obvious that if it wasn't for SM64, it would be for any other game that followed. Do you really think Galaxy introduced platforming in spheres and gravity mechanics?? Let me present you Sonic Adventure 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjZhgDf-jJg) or even Sonic 3 & Knuckles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xzwtsqC5CQ)! The inovations of Galaxy were mostly related to the use of the wii mote.

Regarding the name of 3D World, I actually believe it couldn't have been better. It suggests an evolution of SM World or 3D Land, rather than an evolution of the older SMB3.



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LemonSlice on 20 October 2014
mii-gamer said:
orniletter said:
episteme said:
Just play 3D World, lol. I'm sure you won't create another hate thread after finishing World Crown.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=162044&page=1
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=162149&page=1
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=169768&page=1
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=174071&page=1

Emberassing.

That's an unhealthy obsession

Yet it never fails. He gets hundreds of replies every time. smh



Podings on 20 October 2014

It's certainly the first Nintendo home console to not feature an attempt to redefine Mario.

Both his games on Wii U are rather safe continuations of previously established modes of expression. And it shows in the naming, each of them being an unabashed sequel.

Each system before had a genre defining version of the plumber's adventures, probably least so the GameCube, even if Mario Sunshine still was a phenomenal game.

Here's hoping they still have something truly surprising in store for Mario, because I got to admit, I own a Wii U but haven't felt like buying NSMBU or 3D World, and I consider myself a Mario fan.



Experimental42 on 20 October 2014
LGF said:

Actually, I think 3D World received a too high score. Looking at games that have grown by x4 in terms of budget receiving 70's and considered the best in the series by those very same reviews (Killzone Shadowfall), I think 3D World was really well treated. But that's another discussion.

Tomb Raider came out 4 months later, but was developed at the same time or do you think that in those 4 months they would implement the "inovations" of SM64?? Those inovations are so obvious that if it wasn't for SM64, it would be for any other game that followed. Do you really think Galaxy introduced platforming in spheres and gravity mechanics?? Let me present you Sonic Adventure 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjZhgDf-jJg) or even Sonic 3 & Knuckles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xzwtsqC5CQ)! The inovations of Galaxy were mostly related to the use of the wii mote.

Regarding the name of 3D World, I actually believe it couldn't have been better. It suggests an evolution of SM World or 3D Land, rather than an evolution of the older SMB3.


Up until release Super Mario World 3D was stigmatized as a port of 3D Land, it received critical acclaim but still was colored by it. You also seem to think that bigger is better, but that's not how Mario or the genre works really. Besides, most of these bigger games ended up being bloated messes compaired to earlier iterations and are fairly open when it comes to admiting they'd rather spend money on brainwashing people into liking what they have instead of making it better.

 

You also missed my point on the Tomb Raider thing. Mario 64 was far more revolutionary than any other game in the 3D era. Every game that uses 360 analog movement or a camera you control with the right stick has lifted that straight from Mario 64. Tomb Raider is a good example of how games in 3D played before Mario 64. So unless you thing RE4, The Last of Us, and CoD would have been awesome with tank controls, you're gonna have to admit that Mario 64 was pretty revolutionary.

None of Mario Galaxy's real innovation comes from the Wii Mote. It was all spherical platforms and gravity tricks. You could remove the Wii Mote and have the exact same game, but remove the two elements I mention and it's just another 3D Mario.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles used perspective to make 2D sprite look like you were on a sphere. That's not the same. Neither is SA2B. Yeah it had spheroids, but they didn't have dynamic gravity effects and required you to wall climb. If you jump from one sphere and come close to another, its gravity doesn't pull you in. It was flagged by an event like a rocket or contact. The rotating tubes in the Sonic levels had their own gravity as well, but if you didn't exit them properly you flew off into space. On top of that, watch the clip you sent and look at that camera and the level of control. Just awful.

As for the naming, Super Mario 3D world has more in common with Super Mario Bros than Super Mario World or Land: Flagpoles from 1, characters abilities from 2, and almost all of the power-ups from 3 most notably. In fact, Super Mario World is the game it seems to have the least in common with. To the best of my memory it's only link to Super Mario World is a few enemy types and a couple stage references. Naming it Super Mario Bros. 4 would have invoked a 2D image in people's minds, and Super Mario 3D World is a 3D game with heavy 2D Mario influence. Nobody would have drawn as many comparisons to the traditional 3D Marios.



Experimental42 on 20 October 2014
Podings said:
It's certainly the first Nintendo home console to not feature an attempt to redefine Mario.

Both his games on Wii U are rather safe continuations of previously established modes of expression. And it shows in the naming, each of them being an unabashed sequel.

Each system before had a genre defining version of the plumber's adventures, probably least so the GameCube, even if Mario Sunshine still was a phenomenal game.

Here's hoping they still have something truly surprising in store for Mario, because I got to admit, I own a Wii U but haven't felt like buying NSMBU or 3D World, and I consider myself a Mario fan.


SM3DW is worth it. Buy it, you will not regret it for a second if you liked Super Mario Bros 3.



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curl-6 on 20 October 2014
LGF said:
curl-6 said:

A true step forward in what?

Indeed, in everything: controls, physics, maps size and detail, graphics (actually the last time Nintendo achieved state of the art).

The graphics were not state of the art even for 2002. Games like Rogue Squadron II and Halo had already achieved far better.

And the controls weren't any better than Mario 64.



Pavolink on 21 October 2014

Agree. NSMBWii is better and 3DWorld is not a must have. Neither MK8 is the best MK, TWWHD and HW are not a new Zelda everyone deserves to play, and no Metroid. Basically, this console is a great wasteland.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


LGF on 21 October 2014
curl-6 said:
LGF said:
curl-6 said:

A true step forward in what?

Indeed, in everything: controls, physics, maps size and detail, graphics (actually the last time Nintendo achieved state of the art).

The graphics were not state of the art even for 2002. Games like Rogue Squadron II and Halo had already achieved far better.

And the controls weren't any better than Mario 64.

And Gran Turismo 3 had also achieved more impressive results, but ... in a different genre. Sunshine was the state of the art in platformers and had some physics and graphical effects that those racing games or a shooters did not have.

About the controls, they were more complex and with more evolved physics. If they were better, that's subjective. But I guess any objective parameter points towards that (it was better).



mcronesixteen on 21 October 2014

Well there is always mario maker :P



Consoles owned: Wii U wii gamecube DS DS lite DSi 3DS Xbox 360 Gameboy Gameboy color Gameboy advance Gameboy Advance sp Gameboy micro and PC. 

LGF on 21 October 2014
Experimental42 said:

LGF said:


Up until release Super Mario World 3D was stigmatized as a port of 3D Land, it received critical acclaim but still was colored by it. You also seem to think that bigger is better, but that's not how Mario or the genre works really. Besides, most of these bigger games ended up being bloated messes compaired to earlier iterations and are fairly open when it comes to admiting they'd rather spend money on brainwashing people into liking what they have instead of making it better.

You also missed my point on the Tomb Raider thing. Mario 64 was far more revolutionary than any other game in the 3D era. Every game that uses 360 analog movement or a camera you control with the right stick has lifted that straight from Mario 64. Tomb Raider is a good example of how games in 3D played before Mario 64. So unless you thing RE4, The Last of Us, and CoD would have been awesome with tank controls, you're gonna have to admit that Mario 64 was pretty revolutionary.

None of Mario Galaxy's real innovation comes from the Wii Mote. It was all spherical platforms and gravity tricks. You could remove the Wii Mote and have the exact same game, but remove the two elements I mention and it's just another 3D Mario.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles used perspective to make 2D sprite look like you were on a sphere. That's not the same. Neither is SA2B. Yeah it had spheroids, but they didn't have dynamic gravity effects and required you to wall climb. If you jump from one sphere and come close to another, its gravity doesn't pull you in. It was flagged by an event like a rocket or contact. The rotating tubes in the Sonic levels had their own gravity as well, but if you didn't exit them properly you flew off into space. On top of that, watch the clip you sent and look at that camera and the level of control. Just awful.

As for the naming, Super Mario 3D world has more in common with Super Mario Bros than Super Mario World or Land: Flagpoles from 1, characters abilities from 2, and almost all of the power-ups from 3 most notably. In fact, Super Mario World is the game it seems to have the least in common with. To the best of my memory it's only link to Super Mario World is a few enemy types and a couple stage references. Naming it Super Mario Bros. 4 would have invoked a 2D image in people's minds, and Super Mario 3D World is a 3D game with heavy 2D Mario influence. Nobody would have drawn as many comparisons to the traditional 3D Marios.

I don't think bigger is better. But when I see that the games that received the best scores were ports from the previous generation or steps back (such as 3D World), while really ambitious games (Watchdogs, DriveClub, ShadowFall, etc.) received 70s, I get really upset. I prefer ambitious games with some bugs than the "played it safe" old formulas everytime.

Again, if it wasn't for SM64, it would be for anything else. Sure it had merit to be the first. But it's not because of that, that no other game would have that feature. I think the most revolutionary was actually N64 for having the analog stick. If PS or Saturn had that, you would have games using it like SM64 did.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles applied gravity rules (very simple of course, but still). Also, when I compare SA2 and Galaxy, for me the most revolutionary was SA2. At least, I think it would be easier to create Galaxy looking at SA2, than creating SA2 looking at SA1, for instance. I hear always people complaining about the camara in these games, but for me it was never an issue.

About 3D World's name, SM World also invokes the 2D image in people's minds. The term "3D" just gives the sense of some revolution in the formula. It also suggests that it would be to the 3D Land, like SM World was for SM Land. Calling it SMB4 would be abusing of the SMB name (which had already been used in a Wii U title) and the "4" would suggest even more of the same.