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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - If the Nintendo Fusion is another hardcore gaming system, it won't sell more than the Wii U and 3DS combined.

Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Soundwave said:

Well one being a phone for example is a pretty huge difference. Besides the different SKUs being different isn't bad really ... it gives incentive for a person to buy both if they have a large investment in the ecosystem already, a person who normally may only buy a Nintendo handheld may say "well gee, it would be nice to play some of these games on TV at home, maybe I'll pick up the Nintendo Fusion Home version too, it's pretty cheap". 

No they can't compete with PS5 (not even sure there will be an XB2) for raw power, but I don't think Nintendo really gives a crap about that anymore. For Nintendo's style, even Wii U level of power suits them just fine, and a Fusion home device honestly could be considerably more powerful than that if they really wanted it to be. I think it could be in the range of 800-900 GFLOPS with 3-4 GB of RAM (for games) and a more modern DX11 style graphical effects. That will result in graphics on screen for Nintendo games that I think most people will be quite happy with, especially if the price point is sub-$200. 

They need to leverage their Virtual Console back catalog better though and this system should also be able to rework Wii U titles so it has a lot of software to play from day 1. 

Two SKUs isn't a benefit on a company if both SKUs are sluggish. Imagine Wii U/3DS were one product line ... in that case, they would be on pace to sell 100 million units between them for one generation (and games like Mario 3D World would have access to a larger userbase) ... but seperately they weaken Nintendo's case that this was a successful gen for them. 

Well, if they are exactly the same, I highly doubt there will be enough people buying the console itteration just for the sake of playing the exact same game at home. Just look at the Vita... Most of the games that are playable on it are playable on the ps3 or elsewhere but that doesn't mean people are saying, gee, I can't wait to invest more on Sony's eco system and play these games on the Go... Heck, the only reason the handheld is still selling is cause there are games coming out in Japan...

Also, if its a portable device, how on earth do u expect it to even have dx11 style of graphics with x86, specially if its sub $200 while maintaining great battery life? See, the issue is that with x86 tablets, as of right now, aren't ment for gaming with x86. If you look at the windows tablets for $500-$900, they have a decent cpu with a really terrible GPU and the reason for that is to concerve battery life. The reason why ipads/androids tablets are able to play games while having great battery life is cause they are all arm architecture and adreno gpu which again, third parties don't want...

And sure, having 2 sku's that are sluggish isn't a good thing but all that means is that they have to look at what they have done wrong this generation (3d + gamepad) and fix it in the next generation. Every company makes mistakes but that doesn't mean they should just give up... Microsoft made mistakes with Windows 95, Millennium, Vista, 8, Sony made mistakes with their PCs, TVs and a large list of other things and etc but u don't see them giving up just cause they goofed once a while (Granted Sony shutdown their PCs but thats cause they were failing at it for a super long time)... Imagine if Microsoft stopped making consumer windows after vista and just focused on the Server market, that would be crazy!

Tegra K1 has console style graphics in a $300 tablet today, and that's likely heavily marked up. But that can have DX11 style effects already, I never said it had to be on par with a PS4. 

I'd say Wii U level graphics with a few added effects is likely, and more than doable IMO by 2016 for $250 or less. Throw in perhaps 1080P + anti-aliasing for the home variant. Mind you Nintendo is not beholden to the same business model most tablet manufacturers are ... they can get away with only making a $5-$10 profit/unit because they make their main money selling games on their handheld, that's different from say ASUS or other tablet manufacturers. 

Nintendo's got their asses handed to them pretty handedly by Sony in the console gen for 3/4 tries, and really the one success was an unsustainable fad. They've tried to win the console space multiple times, this isn't them just "giving up" overnight. Their console business has been declining for almost 25 years now with the exception of like a 4 year bump. 

It's time to change it up. 



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Soundwave said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Well, if they are exactly the same, I highly doubt there will be enough people buying the console itteration just for the sake of playing the exact same game at home. Just look at the Vita... Most of the games that are playable on it are playable on the ps3 or elsewhere but that doesn't mean people are saying, gee, I can't wait to invest more on Sony's eco system and play these games on the Go... Heck, the only reason the handheld is still selling is cause there are games coming out in Japan...

Also, if its a portable device, how on earth do u expect it to even have dx11 style of graphics with x86, specially if its sub $200 while maintaining great battery life? See, the issue is that with x86 tablets, as of right now, aren't ment for gaming with x86. If you look at the windows tablets for $500-$900, they have a decent cpu with a really terrible GPU and the reason for that is to concerve battery life. The reason why ipads/androids tablets are able to play games while having great battery life is cause they are all arm architecture and adreno gpu which again, third parties don't want...

And sure, having 2 sku's that are sluggish isn't a good thing but all that means is that they have to look at what they have done wrong this generation (3d + gamepad) and fix it in the next generation. Every company makes mistakes but that doesn't mean they should just give up... Microsoft made mistakes with Windows 95, Millennium, Vista, 8, Sony made mistakes with their PCs, TVs and a large list of other things and etc but u don't see them giving up just cause they goofed once a while (Granted Sony shutdown their PCs but thats cause they were failing at it for a super long time)... Imagine if Microsoft stopped making consumer windows after vista and just focused on the Server market, that would be crazy!

Tegra K1 has console style graphics in a $300 tablet today, and that's likely heavily marked up. But that can have DX11 style effects already, I never said it had to be on par with a PS4. 

I'd say Wii U level graphics with a few added effects is likely, and more than doable IMO by 2016 for $250 or less. Mind you Nintendo is not beholden to the same business model most tablet manufacturers are ... they can get away with only making a $5-$10 profit/unit because they make their main money selling games on their handheld, that's different from say ASUS or other tablet manufacturers. 

Nintendo's got their asses handed to them pretty handedly by Sony in the console gen for 3/4 tries, and really the one success was an unsustainable fad. They've tried to win the console space multiple times, this isn't them just "giving up" overnight. Their console business has been declining for almost 25 years now with the exception of like a 4 year bump. 

Well again, thats Arm and not x86... Do you really want zero third party support again or what loll?

And also, you have to keep in mind that when companies think of hardware specs, they have to finalize it long before the hardware is released so, lets say if the Fusion will get released in 2016 or 2017, then the hardware specs should be finalized 2 years prior to that so they can have games/ads/info/dev kits ready in time for the launch.

And yes, granted Nintendo didn't win a concole war for a long time but they didn't lose so badly that it wasn't profitable for them... A company doesn't have to "win" to make money. A single SKU is literily a nightmare for any business cause the risk is soo damn high that its not even funny cause if it fails, for the next 4-5 years, u wont be making any money at all hence why I can't think of a single successful company with just one sku...



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Soundwave said:

Well in a way, with the Fusion concept, third parties can go screw themselves really, Nintendo will be able to supply the system with a steadier stream of software when their dev resources aren't split between two seperate platforms. 

Though ironically I think third parties will be more apt to jump in too, because for one having just "one ecosystem" lets them check off their Nintendo to-do list easier ... now they can make one version of a game and it covers both the Nintendo console and handheld and has access to the wider Nintendo audience.

So while Ubi Soft for example may not give a poop about giving the Wii U the new Assassin's Creed for example, they may be more likely to give it to Fusion though, because effectively they're getting both a handheld and console version of their game in one shot under this model, which is less risky (at least in publisher logic). 

Japanese 3rd parties will likely line up to support this type of platform too. 

@bolded:  You just made a very compelling case as to why Nintendo would choose this route.  

Seriously though, if 3rd parties are inclined to give it a go based on the "wider audience/less risk" philosophy and the price is right, then I could see that kind of thing being a major player with the right marketing, launch games, etc.  

And yes, I have little doubt that it would be a resounding success in Japan. 



prayformojo said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

 there wont be any reason to buy the console apart from the graphical upgrade and more comfortable controls...

What about the fact that you'll be able to play those games on a 60 inch screen with a surround sound system instead of a tiny 5 inch screen and ear buds?

Well, as great as that sounds, most people, if they have the handheld version, I highly doubt they will go and buy the console version if it has the exact same games with better graphics and being able to play on a larger screen cause you are essentially paying double to price for virtually the "same" experience where as you can spend that money on an entirely different experience by getting one of its competitors



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

First off it would be suicide for Nintendo to release a new console before 2018....

If they release it to soon they will:

- Alienate the WiiU supporters they have now
- When the next round of consoles from Sony and MS come out Nintendo will be in the same boat they are now with the WiiU.
- Consoles NEED to be released within months of each other not years.

These risks are what will prevent Nintendo from releasing to soon. Besides the WiiU is doing fine enough, the only people that seem to be having an issue with it are people that are to hung up on how a game looks rather then the fun behind it. If you are buying a WiiU for 3rd party games then I am sorry, that's your fault for not looking into things further. Nintendo has always been about first party games first. I buy Nintendo for the 1st party games... I have a PC/PS4 for multiplats and other exclusives.

Nintendo is in no rush to push out a new console anyway, they made enough money on the WiiU to "sit a gen out" as some people seem to think.



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Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Soundwave said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Well, if they are exactly the same, I highly doubt there will be enough people buying the console itteration just for the sake of playing the exact same game at home. Just look at the Vita... Most of the games that are playable on it are playable on the ps3 or elsewhere but that doesn't mean people are saying, gee, I can't wait to invest more on Sony's eco system and play these games on the Go... Heck, the only reason the handheld is still selling is cause there are games coming out in Japan...

Also, if its a portable device, how on earth do u expect it to even have dx11 style of graphics with x86, specially if its sub $200 while maintaining great battery life? See, the issue is that with x86 tablets, as of right now, aren't ment for gaming with x86. If you look at the windows tablets for $500-$900, they have a decent cpu with a really terrible GPU and the reason for that is to concerve battery life. The reason why ipads/androids tablets are able to play games while having great battery life is cause they are all arm architecture and adreno gpu which again, third parties don't want...

And sure, having 2 sku's that are sluggish isn't a good thing but all that means is that they have to look at what they have done wrong this generation (3d + gamepad) and fix it in the next generation. Every company makes mistakes but that doesn't mean they should just give up... Microsoft made mistakes with Windows 95, Millennium, Vista, 8, Sony made mistakes with their PCs, TVs and a large list of other things and etc but u don't see them giving up just cause they goofed once a while (Granted Sony shutdown their PCs but thats cause they were failing at it for a super long time)... Imagine if Microsoft stopped making consumer windows after vista and just focused on the Server market, that would be crazy!

Tegra K1 has console style graphics in a $300 tablet today, and that's likely heavily marked up. But that can have DX11 style effects already, I never said it had to be on par with a PS4. 

I'd say Wii U level graphics with a few added effects is likely, and more than doable IMO by 2016 for $250 or less. Mind you Nintendo is not beholden to the same business model most tablet manufacturers are ... they can get away with only making a $5-$10 profit/unit because they make their main money selling games on their handheld, that's different from say ASUS or other tablet manufacturers. 

Nintendo's got their asses handed to them pretty handedly by Sony in the console gen for 3/4 tries, and really the one success was an unsustainable fad. They've tried to win the console space multiple times, this isn't them just "giving up" overnight. Their console business has been declining for almost 25 years now with the exception of like a 4 year bump. 

Well again, thats Arm and not x86... Do you really want zero third party support again or what loll?

And also, you have to keep in mind that when companies think of hardware specs, they have to finalize it long before the hardware is released so, lets say if the Fusion will get released in 2016 or 2017, then the hardware specs should be finalized 2 years prior to that so they can have games/ads/info/dev kits ready in time for the launch.

And yes, granted Nintendo didn't win a concole war for a long time but they didn't lose so badly that it wasn't profitable for them... A company doesn't have to "win" to make money. A single SKU is literily a nightmare for any business cause the risk is soo damn high that its not even funny cause if it fails, for the next 4-5 years, u wont be making any money at all hence why I can't think of a single successful company with just one sku...

Well first plenty of companies are familiar with ARM. Pretty sure most companies develop for iOS/Android. 

The whole point of the Fusion platform in part is so that Nintendo doesn't need third party support. By combining their dev resources they'll have one platform for all their games, whatever third parties bring to the table is merely a bonus. 

I do think Nintendo has finalized their spec, they likely have running Fusion units already in their R&D (just not consumer level ones ... yet). 

There is no single SKU. They may actually have *more* SKUs under this model, not fewer, they could have 3 or 4 different models eventually. It's just ONE software ecosystem. 

Nintendo fans are bit naive too in thinking that people actually like the current setup. I don't think they do ... to Nintendo fans the idea of having to buy two platforms is "AWESOME! A handheld AND console! Woo hoo! Sign me up to double dip for Smash Bros, c'mon guys, who's with me?". Reality check: The average consumer sees that they have to pay pretty much $500 (more than their PS4) between a Wii U + 3DS just to play all the Nintendo IP. That's not a tantalizing proposition to them. Not surprisingly a lot of people opt for A) hell no to both, I'll just play my PS4/X1 or iPhone/iPad (if they're casual) or B) buy a 3DS for cheap and call it a day. 



Avro1958 said:
First off it would be suicide for Nintendo to release a new console before 2018....

If they release it to soon they will:

- Alienate the WiiU supporters they have now
- When the next round of consoles from Sony and MS come out Nintendo will be in the same boat they are now with the WiiU.
- Consoles NEED to be released within months of each other not years.

These risks are what will prevent Nintendo from releasing to soon. Besides the WiiU is doing fine enough, the only people that seem to be having an issue with it are people that are to hung up on how a game looks rather then the fun behind it. If you are buying a WiiU for 3rd party games then I am sorry, that's your fault for not looking into things further. Nintendo has always been about first party games first. I buy Nintendo for the 1st party games... I have a PC/PS4 for multiplats and other exclusives.

Nintendo is in no rush to push out a new console anyway, they made enough money on the WiiU to "sit a gen out" as some people seem to think.

In reality, even Nintendo knows Wii U is a flop. So it's not a high priority. Sure they'll make sure it gets its token number of Mario/Zelda/Mario Kart etc. games and maybe even throw out a Metroid towards the end of 2016.

Launching the successor to the 3DS is no.1 priority internally at Nintendo right now, I'd gauruntee it, it just so happens that the 3DS successor basically will eventually replace both the 3DS and Wii U. 



Soundwave said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

Well again, thats Arm and not x86... Do you really want zero third party support again or what loll?

And also, you have to keep in mind that when companies think of hardware specs, they have to finalize it long before the hardware is released so, lets say if the Fusion will get released in 2016 or 2017, then the hardware specs should be finalized 2 years prior to that so they can have games/ads/info/dev kits ready in time for the launch.

And yes, granted Nintendo didn't win a concole war for a long time but they didn't lose so badly that it wasn't profitable for them... A company doesn't have to "win" to make money. A single SKU is literily a nightmare for any business cause the risk is soo damn high that its not even funny cause if it fails, for the next 4-5 years, u wont be making any money at all hence why I can't think of a single successful company with just one sku...

Well first plenty of companies are familiar with ARM. Pretty sure most companies develop for iOS/Android. 

The whole point of the Fusion platform in part is so that Nintendo doesn't need third party support. By combining their dev resources they'll have one platform for all their games, whatever third parties bring to the table is merely a bonus. 

I do think Nintendo has finalized their spec, they likely have running Fusion units already in their R&D (just not consumer level ones ... yet). 

There is no single SKU. They may actually have *more* SKUs under this model, not fewer, they could have 3 or 4 different models eventually. It's just ONE software ecosystem. 

Nintendo fans are bit naive too in thinking that people actually like the current setup. I don't think they do ... to Nintendo fans the idea of having to buy two consoles is "AWESOME! A handheld AND console! Woo hoo! Sign me up to double dip for Smash Bros, c'mon guys, who's with me?". Reality check: The average consumer sees that they have to pay pretty much $500 (more than their PS4) between a Wii U + 3DS just to play all the Nintendo IP. That's not a tantalizing proposition to them. Not surprisingly a lot of people opt for A) hell no to both, I'll just play my PS4/X1 or iPhone/iPad (if they're casual) or B) buy a 3DS for cheap and call it a day. 

Yes but look at the difference in quality that you will get with arm vs x86... Like, its night and day. And the wiiU is PowerPC architecture, its similar to the 360's one but that doesn't stop the third parties from complaining that its not x86. And also, if it is arm, it poses another issue which is that there is nothing stopping the third parties from porting the games to android/iOS which, in the portable space, is a lot bigger market than Nintendo's handheld space... If iOS/Android gets the exact same third party games as Nintendo's Fusion, suddenly, Nintendo's Fusion handheld becomes a lot less attractive since more people already have those devices anyway.

And again, if they make two platforms with the exact same architecture, it will speed up the development resources regardless while lowering the risk of a one hit flop. Sure, it wont be as speedy as if it were one handheld but it will be way faster then what they have currently

And I doubt that different sku's of the same model affects the sales that much cause the current 3ds sales is all of the 3ds models put together so its like eh

And the reason why I like, Nintendo console + handheld instead of the Nintendo handheld is cause both, due to horsepower, will provide me with different experiences... Like look at Zelda, you have a 2d zelda for the 3ds and you have a 3d zelda for the wiiU and lets face it, its more than just a graphical upgrade due to what the console is capable of compared to the handheld. And its that model that made them the success so far... If its the same experience across the board, then there is hardly any reason to get the console version if you have the handheld version..



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

IF the fusion is the actual hardware (I highly doubt this, as it goes entirely against Nintendo policies). Then chances are it will have a high user adoption rate. NIntendo just needs 1 really good (hardware wise) console. It doesn't matter what is in it, People will buy it for all their games, pretty much leaving Sony and MS in the dust.



amak11 said:
IF the fusion is the actual hardware (I highly doubt this, as it goes entirely against Nintendo policies). Then chances are it will have a high user adoption rate. NIntendo just needs 1 really good (hardware wise) console. It doesn't matter what is in it, People will buy it for all their games, pretty much leaving Sony and MS in the dust.


Somehow I doubt the average Calladooty/Destiny/NBA 2K/Madden/FIFA/Halo/Uncharted loving fan is going to ditch them just to play more Mario. 

They're pretty seperate audiences at this point. 

What Fusion might do is it might get more of these people to buy in to a Nintendo Fusion platform as a secondary type platform (provided its cheap) or make it their handheld of choice.