| Bigmouth007 said: You guys forget the Soviets? The Communists are here to destroy freedom in this world! |
Yet the Soviets switched to the idea of socialism in one country, so their goal was no longer a worldwide revolution.
| Mr Khan said: Bolshevism and Maoism are the Communist programs that the western world knows. Both were founded on the idea that revolutionary tyranny was needed in order to smash the old order and grind it into the dust before building anew, the idea that an individual human life is, ultimately, worthless in the face of what is to be done: determined atheism and materialism converged on the idea that the ends did justify the means, and so many horrors were thus unleashed. This need to stamp out the old order also attracted and encouraged paranoia of the highest order, which led to folks like Stalin and Mao wiping out groups of people who probably never would have been a threat. Bolshevism and Maoism were prescribed for societies that other Socialists felt were not ready for Communism. The idea on order in the old school was that Capitalism would mature and progress to a certain point where society would become completely polarized between the owners and those who could sell only their labor, at which point it would collapse under its own revolutionary weight and be reorganized. It was not meant for peasant societies like Tsarist Russia or Nationalist China, where small ownership (at least once outright serfdom had been abolished) was still a huge factor, and society was still mostly agricultural and not industrial. In the view of many Communists, Lenin and later Mao, and many others like Castro, all jumped the gun in the big picture. Socialism, meanwhile, has been taking root in western society since the French first Republic and the Owenists of Britain (who, interestingly, had the support of the Tories, who at the time were backed by small holder petty-nobility, who distrusted the rising commoner merchant class which was supplanting them and which powered the Whig party), where the general idea has been to make society better for the working man by degrees rather than by Revolution. In the long run, i'd say Communism will come in some form that we cannot yet delineate, due to the fact that "labor" is going to become insanely cheap and abundant due to the proliferation of robots/machines, and this will essentially force society into making a choice between a utopia where the fruits of this abundant labor are freely shared, or a fierce dystopia where a handful of wealthy retreat into gated communities with their machine-provided bounties while the rest of us grapple in some Mad Max-esque wasteland, due to the fact that we have nothing to provide "the market". Not that i'm saying this change will come all at once, and if the slow progression of socialist programs is any indication, the "choice" i outlined will not be something society makes all at once: we will slowly proceed to that utopia of redistribution one step at a time, as marginal labor costs drop like a stone over the next century and so the number of needed workers will decrease. |
This.
Came into this thread, trying to write down my rambling taughts abbout the ideology, past and future of communism, and here Mr Khan wrote it down already, in a much clearer and organzied way. Thank you 
Vote the Mayor for Mayor!
Kane1389 said:
Poles (in my general experience) hate other Slavs more than any other group of people. They prefer to be on the side of their western, German overlords |
I thought the Poles hated others because they wanted to be independent but this wish was never respected especially by Germans and Russians (probably others too). I don't blame them they was a powerhouse in Eastern Europe at one point.
Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)
'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin
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| Moonhero said: Communism is evil. America fought it, and beat it. |
Not really. Cuba is still ruled by the Castro's despite being embargoed since the Cuban revolution of 1959 and being only 90 miles away from the US! Vietnam, Laos, China and North Korea are all supposedly communist at least officially anyway but all couldn't be further from communism if they wanted to be.
While the USSR and Eastern Europe are no longer officially communist ( i thought they were state capitalist but there you go) because they were bankrupt and their leaders lacked the will to carry on with that system. All the US did is install military bases everywhere in the west and start an arms race. Russia proved to not be strong enough. The only wars to happen were proxy wars in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and some places in Africa.
And even if America won the cold war, it's nearly bankrupt itself now and just like the USSR, the war machine is slowly killing it.
Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)
'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin
Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018
the2real4mafol said:
I thought the Poles hated others because they wanted to be independent but this wish was never respected especially by Germans and Russians (probably others too). I don't blame them they was a powerhouse in Eastern Europe at one point. |
That and they believe they have some sort of moral superiority compared to other Slavs, because you know, they NEVER occupied other lands...
| Kane1389 said:
That and they believe they have some sort of moral superiority compared to other Slavs, because you know, they NEVER occupied other lands... |
Never ever a polish man invaded other lands... Nor Russia, nor Ukraine, nor Czechoslovakia! They are saints, like the Pope.
Nighthawk117 said:
(Note: Bouzane's last sentence bolded by myself.) Guys and girls of the VG Chartz forums, Allow me to summarize my opinion on why Communist/Socialist/Fascist/Totalitarian/Government Led Economies fail sooner than later.... These economic & political systems ultimately fail because of: human nature. HUMANS, BY NATURE, LUST FOR LIBERTY AND FREEDOM. NOBODY WANTS TO BE A SLAVE TO ANY GOVERNMENT, POLITICAL IDEOLOGY, OR SOME LEADER WITH ABSOLUTE POWER, OR ANY LEGISLATURE THAT IS MERELY FOR SHOW... |
The Sino-Soviet Split didn't help either :p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split
|
Kane1389 said:
|
That's a joke right?
the2real4mafol said:
Not really. Cuba is still ruled by the Castro's despite being embargoed since the Cuban revolution of 1959 and being only 90 miles away from the US! Vietnam, Laos, China and North Korea are all supposedly communist at least officially anyway but all couldn't be further from communism if they wanted to be. While the USSR and Eastern Europe are no longer officially communist ( i thought they were state capitalist but there you go) because they were bankrupt and their leaders lacked the will to carry on with that system. All the US did is install military bases everywhere in the west and start an arms race. Russia proved to not be strong enough. The only wars to happen were proxy wars in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and some places in Africa. And even if America won the cold war, it's nearly bankrupt itself now and just like the USSR, the war machine is slowly killing it. |
Cuba is way more important as an example of failure.
But war... war never changes
tyig said:
Cuba is way more important as an example of failure. |
I think its done ok considering it's circumstances. Better life expectancy than America, decent free (at point of need) education and healthcare for the region, decent tourist sector and also encouragement of small private business now. Cuba does have its fair share of problems. Corruption, potential bankrupcy, an overwhelming state (but they are cutting back there anyway).
Solutions to Cuba's problems aren't simple but i don't think international laissez-faire capitalism is the answer anymore than communism was.
Personally when it comes to something like this, i want the state services to be there if i need them but i don't want the state controlling every aspect of my life. That's where totalitarian systems like Castro Cuba really fail.
Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)
'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin
Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018
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