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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - My thoughts on how Nintendo will go about their next console and handheld.

How is this even supposed to work? The 3DS XL is $200 and the Wii U is $300 and the 3DS cannot handle most Wii U games. DKC: TF can't be ported, Mario 3D World looks a hell of a lot different from 3D Land, etc. etc.

Throwing around some term like "similar architecture" doesn't mean they'll be magically able to run the same games.

The iPhone and iPad use variants of the exact same mobile processors ... that's why they can share games/apps so easily, that's not at all what's being described here.

Either you want a Fusion system or you want a continuation of the current Nintendo setup of having discreet console + handheld, there really isn't much of an inbetween, too many people wanting their cake and eating it too. 

How is Nintendo supposed to sell a handheld that can reasonably run scaled down games from a console PS4-like in power or moreso for $200? Not before 2020 folks. 



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Miyamotoo said:
spemanig said:
Miyamotoo said:

Interesting, but this will not happening for that price "They will release a bundle with both for $400", and I am not so sure for 2016. release.

And will have backward compatibility with DS/3DS/Wii/WiiU games and with Wii Remote/Nunchuk and gamepad.


There's no reason why they can't get a console to cost that much in 2.5 years. 


I agree that home console be around $300 and handheld be around $200, but bundle of that two consoles for just $400 is not gonna happen, its not real at all.


The point I'm making is there will be a signifigant discount in buying both. $50 each off of two consoles selling at a profit won't be an issue.



Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

 


No one interested in a handheld, especially Nintendo fans, is going to buy a $160 periferal to play it on a TV. That will sell less. And I never said it was a "PS4 killer." In fact, it won't be. It won't need to be. It'll be a cheaper Nintendo console meant to cater to Nintendo gamers. Nintendo will create more IPs catering towards a western audience and have a self sustaining ecosystem. It will strive off Nintendo's fans and be more profitable for it, while gaining new fans. They will invest heavily in creating multiple western first party studios and they will expand business that way. Just like Disney, just like Apple, and just as they said they would.


So a sub-PS4 console for $300 released when the PS4 is probably $300 (perhaps less) is going to appeal to .... who? Outside of the same Nintendo fan that buys every Nintendo console? 

$160-$170 to start could eventually be $99.99 ... if I meant I could play Nintendo games in 1080P on my TV, I'd be willing to bet such a device would probably in the end outsell the Wii U and GCN at least. 

I get the want for a more powerful Nintendo machine and for Nintendo to double down on making all these cool new Western exclusives ... but honestly I think we know deep down, Nintendo is not thinking the same thing. 

Mac and iPhone are completely disparate platforms ... I can't run BioShock Infinite from my Mac on my iPad, not even close. Most programs don't translate back and forth. I think there will be MORE than 2 hardware types, Iwata has raised this possibility twice now, probably a handheld, a tablet, a microconsole, maybe even something else all playing the same games. 


People who haven't gotten a new system yet. And the way the PS4 is selling, it won't get a price drop for a long time. You cut your price when you're loosing sales.

No one else thinks like you. No one's going to pay even $50 to stream their handheld games onto their TV. This isn't a "want." More powerful hardware sells more in this day. If the Wii U launched two years earlier and without the gamepad, it would be doing exponencially better than it is on literally all fronts.

I'm not talking about playing games on the ipone and mac. You can't do that because there isn't a mouse and keyboard on the iphone. I'm talking about why people by an iphone. Music and apps. Iphone apps mostly work on the mac and vice versa. There are exclusive things that give both value, but they have a symiotic relationship like the new consoles will. No tablet or micro console except maybe in China.


Personally I'd love a super-duper 4K capable Nintendo console in 2016. 

However, I think we'll see in a couple of years that what I've said was right (even if it's not what I personally would want as option 1). 

When more details about the Wii started to come out, a lot of people in the Nintendo community reacted with denial/outright anger to anyone who said the Wii/Revolution was going to be only moderately more powerful than a GameCube. It had to be close to a 360/PS3 and lots of people didn't want to accept the truth, but Nintendo went in a different direction, and I think that's going to happen again. 

I think actually in 5-6 years, Nintendo will be a dramatically different company, one that's branched out considerably from just video games. The Wii U failure and the decline of the handheld market is going to have repurcussions for years and years. 


A PS4 powered system in 2016 wouldn't be considered powerful.

It won't be right. Nintendo knows that selling an underpowered console won't work anymore. They're not going to do what made their last arguably two consoles fail. They'll still be fully focused on video games. Sony and Microsolf aren't less video game focused because of their other businesses. Neither will Nintendo.


We'll see in 3-4 years I guess. I think you are in for a surprise though just like a lot of Nintendo fans were initially stunned at the decision to make the Wii just a modestly souped up GameCube chip. 

Big changes are coming. Honestly I think Nintendo will generally just wash its hands of the home console entirely, really 3 of their 4 last consoles have dissapointed (relatively speaking) sales wise, 4 of the 5 have suffered steep declines from the previous gen, and barring some Wiimote like genius idea (which probably come around maybe once every 10-15 years if you're lucky) they haven't been able to stem that tide at all. 

I think MS will bail out on a next-gen console too ... I suspect they will opt to create a game streaming service based around XBox Live next time out that works without a console. I wouldn't be stunned if Sony is the only one that makes a true next-gen console successor in the traditional way of thinking. But even there, Playstation 5 sure ... Playstation 6 ... I think won't happen. Consoles will eventually die out. 


Nintendo won't bow out of making consoles. There will always be a market and it's growing. Home consoles are Nintendo's bread and butter. Nintendo did the wii because that was the smart thing to do. This isn't.



spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

 


No one interested in a handheld, especially Nintendo fans, is going to buy a $160 periferal to play it on a TV. That will sell less. And I never said it was a "PS4 killer." In fact, it won't be. It won't need to be. It'll be a cheaper Nintendo console meant to cater to Nintendo gamers. Nintendo will create more IPs catering towards a western audience and have a self sustaining ecosystem. It will strive off Nintendo's fans and be more profitable for it, while gaining new fans. They will invest heavily in creating multiple western first party studios and they will expand business that way. Just like Disney, just like Apple, and just as they said they would.


So a sub-PS4 console for $300 released when the PS4 is probably $300 (perhaps less) is going to appeal to .... who? Outside of the same Nintendo fan that buys every Nintendo console? 

$160-$170 to start could eventually be $99.99 ... if I meant I could play Nintendo games in 1080P on my TV, I'd be willing to bet such a device would probably in the end outsell the Wii U and GCN at least. 

I get the want for a more powerful Nintendo machine and for Nintendo to double down on making all these cool new Western exclusives ... but honestly I think we know deep down, Nintendo is not thinking the same thing. 

Mac and iPhone are completely disparate platforms ... I can't run BioShock Infinite from my Mac on my iPad, not even close. Most programs don't translate back and forth. I think there will be MORE than 2 hardware types, Iwata has raised this possibility twice now, probably a handheld, a tablet, a microconsole, maybe even something else all playing the same games. 


People who haven't gotten a new system yet. And the way the PS4 is selling, it won't get a price drop for a long time. You cut your price when you're loosing sales.

No one else thinks like you. No one's going to pay even $50 to stream their handheld games onto their TV. This isn't a "want." More powerful hardware sells more in this day. If the Wii U launched two years earlier and without the gamepad, it would be doing exponencially better than it is on literally all fronts.

I'm not talking about playing games on the ipone and mac. You can't do that because there isn't a mouse and keyboard on the iphone. I'm talking about why people by an iphone. Music and apps. Iphone apps mostly work on the mac and vice versa. There are exclusive things that give both value, but they have a symiotic relationship like the new consoles will. No tablet or micro console except maybe in China.


Personally I'd love a super-duper 4K capable Nintendo console in 2016. 

However, I think we'll see in a couple of years that what I've said was right (even if it's not what I personally would want as option 1). 

When more details about the Wii started to come out, a lot of people in the Nintendo community reacted with denial/outright anger to anyone who said the Wii/Revolution was going to be only moderately more powerful than a GameCube. It had to be close to a 360/PS3 and lots of people didn't want to accept the truth, but Nintendo went in a different direction, and I think that's going to happen again. 

I think actually in 5-6 years, Nintendo will be a dramatically different company, one that's branched out considerably from just video games. The Wii U failure and the decline of the handheld market is going to have repurcussions for years and years. 


A PS4 powered system in 2016 wouldn't be considered powerful.

It won't be right. Nintendo knows that selling an underpowered console won't work anymore. They're not going to do what made their last arguably two consoles fail. They'll still be fully focused on video games. Sony and Microsolf aren't less video game focused because of their other businesses. Neither will Nintendo.


We'll see in 3-4 years I guess. I think you are in for a surprise though just like a lot of Nintendo fans were initially stunned at the decision to make the Wii just a modestly souped up GameCube chip. 

Big changes are coming. Honestly I think Nintendo will generally just wash its hands of the home console entirely, really 3 of their 4 last consoles have dissapointed (relatively speaking) sales wise, 4 of the 5 have suffered steep declines from the previous gen, and barring some Wiimote like genius idea (which probably come around maybe once every 10-15 years if you're lucky) they haven't been able to stem that tide at all. 

I think MS will bail out on a next-gen console too ... I suspect they will opt to create a game streaming service based around XBox Live next time out that works without a console. I wouldn't be stunned if Sony is the only one that makes a true next-gen console successor in the traditional way of thinking. But even there, Playstation 5 sure ... Playstation 6 ... I think won't happen. Consoles will eventually die out. 


Nintendo won't bow out of making consoles. There will always be a market and it's growing. Home consoles are Nintendo's bread and butter. Nintendo did the wii because that was the smart thing to do. This isn't.

Your kids will laugh at you when you tell them you used to have to buy a seperate box to play video games on your TV and you have to drive to the store to pay $60 for a physical disc copy of a game. There will be an end to the home console eventually. Nintendo did Wii because serendipity blessed them with a genius idea that was the perfect product for that time. It's lightning in a bottle, and it's an impossible formula to repeat. 

Without that, I don't think Nintendo has much of a future in the home console business. Every Nintendo console from the NES onwards with the exception of the Wii has seen a declining audience for 20+ straight years now. The writing is on the wall here, of course as fans we are often the last ones to see it because we don't want to see it. 



Soundwave said:

How is this even supposed to work? The 3DS XL is $200 and the Wii U is $300 and the 3DS cannot handle most Wii U games. DKC: TF can't be ported, Mario 3D World looks a hell of a lot different from 3D Land, etc. etc.

Throwing around some term like "similar architecture" doesn't mean they'll be magically able to run the same games.

The iPhone and iPad use variants of the exact same mobile processors ... that's why they can share games/apps so easily, that's not at all what's being described here.

Either you want a Fusion system or you want a continuation of the current Nintendo setup of having discreet console + handheld, there really isn't much of an inbetween, too many people wanting their cake and eating it too. 

How is Nintendo supposed to sell a handheld that can reasonably run scaled down games from a console PS4-like in power or moreso for $200? Not before 2020 folks. 

The 3DS XL isn't $200 technology. It's $129 profit tech being sold at a much more inflated profit. The Wii U is $300 tech being sold at a slight profit. And like I said a hundred times, they wouldn't be running the same games. They'd be streaming them. You just need enough horsepower to stream, like with the Vita to the PS4. And yes, similar architecture does mean they'd run the same games. There'd obviously be a down grade, but it isn't some magical impossibility.

There is an in between. What I describe is it. You seriously think there won't be moble PS3 level technology in 2016? We have that now dude. That's all it would need.

This is not what I want. This is what is most likely to happen. You're throwing in things I never said and misunderstanding things I did, because you want to be right, but you won't be, because that is financially retarded and Nintendo has done that enough to learn from it.



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Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
spemanig said:


Your kids will laugh at you when you tell them you used to have to buy a seperate box to play video games on your TV and you have to drive to the store to pay $60 for a physical disc copy of a game. There will be an end to the home console eventually. Nintendo did Wii because serendipity blessed them with a genius idea that was the perfect product for that time. It's lightning in a bottle, and it's an impossible formula to repeat. 

Without that, I don't think Nintendo has much of a future in the home console business. Every Nintendo console from the NES onwards with the exception of the Wii has seen a declining audience for 20+ straight years now. The writing is on the wall here, of course as fans we are often the last ones to see it because we don't want to see it. 


I'm 100% sure games will be all digital in ten years, but just like we still have computers even though phones can do most of what a PC can do, we'll still have consoles.

The writing is on the wall for Nintendo to change with the times. They'll do that. Home consoles, and especially Nintendo home consoles, aren't going anywhere for a long time.



Nintendo's tried the streaming idea this generation already to a muted response and the no one is interested in the PS4-Vita streaming either. I don't see anyone making a future console based around this idea, consumers have voted and overwhelmingly said no to this type of thing, why stream to a tiny 5 inch screen when you can play on your 50 inch TV while at home? Nvidia's version of this idea (Shield) has also been a flop also. 

They need a hardware setup that unifies their software library under one iOS-like shop that then allows the games to be played on different variant hardware. Like iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch can. Iwata has said this directly himself so take it up with him, lol.



Soundwave said:
Nintendo's tried the streaming idea this generation already and the no one is interested in the PS4-Vita streaming either. I don't see anyone making a future console based around this idea, consumers have voted and overwhelmingly said no to this type of thing. Nvidia's version of it has also been a flop.

They need a hardware setup that unifies their software library under one iOS-like shop that then allows the games to be played on different variant hardware. Like iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch can. Iwata has said this directly himself so take it up with him, lol.


No Nintendo hasn't, and no one cares about Vita streaming because it's already a flop with no must have games. Consumers voted no to the Vita, not to streaming video games. The console wouldn't be based of streaming, the design phylosophy behind a "fusion" console would just be reinforce by it, along with everything else. It's not the selling feature, it's just a feature. Nvidia is a flop because no one who games on a PC cares about streaming games on the go. No obscure niche periferal like that will ever sell well.

Iwata said what I'm saying, not what you're saying. He never said anything about playing theoretical 3DS games on your Wii U. He just said better synergy between hardware and software of both platforms. 



spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
Nintendo's tried the streaming idea this generation already and the no one is interested in the PS4-Vita streaming either. I don't see anyone making a future console based around this idea, consumers have voted and overwhelmingly said no to this type of thing. Nvidia's version of it has also been a flop.

They need a hardware setup that unifies their software library under one iOS-like shop that then allows the games to be played on different variant hardware. Like iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch can. Iwata has said this directly himself so take it up with him, lol.


No Nintendo hasn't, and no one cares about Vita streaming because it's already a flop with no must have games. Consumers voted no to the Vita, not to streaming video games. The console wouldn't be based of streaming, the design phylosophy behind a "fusion" console would just be reinforce by it, along with everything else. It's not the selling feature, it's just a feature. Nvidia is a flop because no one who games on a PC cares about streaming games on the go. No obscure niche periferal like that will ever sell well.

Iwata said what I'm saying, not what you're saying. He never said anything about playing theoretical 3DS games on your Wii U. He just said better synergy between hardware and software of both platforms. 

 

These are the actual relevant quotes from Iwata:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html

Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples.

Iwata cites the need for a unified software based platform which can then provide software to various "form factors" In fact he specifically says there may even be more than just the traditional two (1 handheld, 1 home device) hardware devices. 

And again more recently he referred I believe to this above concept as "redefining the definition of a game console" and that it would take approximately 2 years ... to me that's more than just another console that tries the same ol' "streaming" idea (which has overwhelmingly failed this generation). 



Soundwave said:
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:
Nintendo's tried the streaming idea this generation already and the no one is interested in the PS4-Vita streaming either. I don't see anyone making a future console based around this idea, consumers have voted and overwhelmingly said no to this type of thing. Nvidia's version of it has also been a flop.

They need a hardware setup that unifies their software library under one iOS-like shop that then allows the games to be played on different variant hardware. Like iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch can. Iwata has said this directly himself so take it up with him, lol.


No Nintendo hasn't, and no one cares about Vita streaming because it's already a flop with no must have games. Consumers voted no to the Vita, not to streaming video games. The console wouldn't be based of streaming, the design phylosophy behind a "fusion" console would just be reinforce by it, along with everything else. It's not the selling feature, it's just a feature. Nvidia is a flop because no one who games on a PC cares about streaming games on the go. No obscure niche periferal like that will ever sell well.

Iwata said what I'm saying, not what you're saying. He never said anything about playing theoretical 3DS games on your Wii U. He just said better synergy between hardware and software of both platforms. 

 

These are the actual relevant quotes from Iwata:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html

till, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples.

Iwata cites the need for a unified software based platform which can then provide software to various "form factors" In fact he specifically says there may even be more than just the traditional two (1 handheld, 1 home device) hardware devices. 

And again more recently he referred I believe to this above concept as "redefining the definition of a game console" and that it would take approximately 2 years ... to me that's more than just another console that tries the same ol' "streaming" idea (which has overwhelmingly failed this generation). 


He was talking about the chinese console with the form factors. You can still have and iOS like platform with differing games. It would still redefine a game console because you games wouldn't be tied to the hardware, it would be stored on the cloud. The platform is not the hardware, it's the NNID. And again, steaming didn't fail, the hardware that streams failed. People didn't regect the streaming, they regected the Vita.