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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What do you want from the next Nintendo Handheld?

 

What year will Nintendo release their 9th Generation Handheld?

2014 10 3.15%
 
2015 37 11.67%
 
2016 113 35.65%
 
2017 91 28.71%
 
2018 43 13.56%
 
2019 9 2.84%
 
2020 3 0.95%
 
Beyond 2020 3 0.95%
 
Never... 8 2.52%
 
Total:317
DanneSandin on 30 March 2014
RolStoppable said:

1) Iwata specifically mentioned stereoscopic 3D as a reason to differentiate Nintendo from smartphones. And while the DS might have had a touchscreen, developers eventually realized that it is beneficial for their games if they don't use it. It's about good games, period.

2) I can't agree. Can I play a Super Mario Bros. game at a sufficient quality level without d-pad and buttons? Of course not, so a d-pad and buttons are things that a handheld needs and thus cannot be removed.

3) The Gamepad is the culmination of adding things and was dubbed as the "swiss army knife of video game controllers". It's not an improvement.

I don't want a second analog stick on the next handheld for that reason. There's a medium between "good enough" and "too much" that Nintendo needs to hit; and a new product launch means that a company can create a new image, even if many things remain the same.

4) The "extra" of Nintendo's next gen handheld is going to be something that already exists in limited form: The eShop. Running a commercial that educates the average consumer that Nintendo classics as well as other small games can be bought for a few bucks in digital form can make a difference. Right now the common belief is that all handheld games are multiple times more expensive than smartphone games.

1) Iwata also said that Wii U was for the hard cores - which it obviously wasn't. Iwata says a lot of things because he has to. Some of the best selling games on the DS used touch screen to its advantages; Brain Age (and we have discussed THAT game in length ;)). Good games that utilizes the HW sell VERY well (Wii Sports).

2) Smartphones are as simple as they come when it comes to gaming, and if/when they use haptic feedback you will be able to play Mario to your satisfaction (probably). So that's as easy and simple as it ever's gonna get.

3) The GamePad is one example of adding too much. How about every other innovation I mentioned? Analog stick, d-pad,  touch screen etc?

4) But why would people want to pay for an extra piece of hard ware that only does gaming even if it has the eShop and cheap games on it, when you can buy games for your phone, without buying new hardware just to game? Explain that one to me. Handhelds will fast become a niche product with your way of thinking, Rol. Can't you see that? Making the console "simple" and adding cheap (old) games on the eSHop doesn't mean people will buy it, because it only does gaming. People will need another incentive to buy a gaming-only-device; cheap, simple HW and cheap(, simple) SW doesn't cut it. How is the 2DS selling? It hasn't bolstered the samles of the 3DS...

EDIT: It's weird, because I can really relate to and agree with a great many things of what you express here on VGC, but we can never seem to agree on which way Nintendo should move forward....



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

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TanukiTrooper on 30 March 2014

I believe 2017/8 release with their next home console releasing in either the same or following year. It won't be in 2016 because that's when they will be concentrating on their new QOL console.

2 Circlepads
A better account system
Same OS as it's home console counterpart, so we can transfer save files and continue playing games on the go (I liked the idea of the Nintendo Fusion)

I know people will say "I want it cheap!" but that will mean Nintendo will lower the quality of the hardware to cover the cost. What I want is quality hardware for the right price.



hinch on 31 March 2014

My wishlist:

- Use modern components and chipsets
- Long battery life. 4.5h+
- A single, high quality 4.3" screen with a good enough resolution. 540p+
- Tactile non-clicky D-Pad. Bigger face buttons - 3DS ones are too damn small
- Dual analog nubs
- Robust design
- Modern OS
- A proper account system
- Priced appropriately for the hardware
- Region free
- No gimmicks

So basically a setup like Vita.. except Nintendo. Without the horrid, proprietary memory storage. And a more compact, travel friendly design.



DanneSandin on 31 March 2014
RolStoppable said:
DanneSandin said:

1) Iwata also said that Wii U was for the hard cores - which it obviously wasn't. Iwata says a lot of things because he has to. Some of the best selling games on the DS used touch screen to its advantages; Brain Age (and we have discussed THAT game in length ;)). Good games that utilizes the HW sell VERY well (Wii Sports).

2) Smartphones are as simple as they come when it comes to gaming, and if/when they use haptic feedback you will be able to play Mario to your satisfaction (probably). So that's as easy and simple as it ever's gonna get.

3) The GamePad is one example of adding too much. How about every other innovation I mentioned? Analog stick, d-pad,  touch screen etc?

4) But why would people want to pay for an extra piece of hard ware that only does gaming even if it has the eShop and cheap games on it, when you can buy games for your phone, without buying new hardware just to game? Explain that one to me. Handhelds will fast become a niche product with your way of thinking, Rol. Can't you see that? Making the console "simple" and adding cheap (old) games on the eSHop doesn't mean people will buy it, because it only does gaming. People will need another incentive to buy a gaming-only-device; cheap, simple HW and cheap(, simple) SW doesn't cut it. How is the 2DS selling? It hasn't bolstered the samles of the 3DS...

EDIT: It's weird, because I can really relate to and agree with a great many things of what you express here on VGC, but we can never seem to agree on which way Nintendo should move forward....

1) The result (failure) doesn't render the intent void. Neither in the case of the 3DS or Wii U.

Some of the best-selling games on the DS don't use the touchscreen in any significant ways, the same goes for the Wii and motion controls. The point I am trying to make here is that the hardware-software synergy is not a requirement, so it's wrong to assume that some sort of new input method must be integrated, no matter what.

2) Having my thumbs cover up the screen isn't sufficient quality; and due to their nature, the screens of smartphones will always be as big as their surface allows. It's really not anything to worry about.

3) All those other innovations you mentioned are already part of the 3DS? If you add more, you basically have a Wii U Gamepad which you conceded is too much.

4) The answer is exclusive games and Nintendo's job is to make games that people want to pay for. I'd say that Nintendo didn't position the 2DS well; they called it a product for young kids and that reduces the addressable demographics a lot. They basically put an inferiority stamp on the 2DS, that could have been handled much better. Then again, the same goes for the 3DS and if that system hadn't been such a mess, then the 2DS would have not existed in the first place.

But something else:

So far we've looked at the future from the perspective of how can Nintendo compete against smartphones, but let's turn this around: How can smartphones compete with Nintendo? The answer is that they don't even try. Instead they focus on doing what flash and browser games on the PC are.

A somewhat late reply...

Im trying to argue that with the fierce competition from smartphones, Nintendo really needs to do something special with next handheld. Making great games just isnt going to cut it this time around (as is obvious with the 3DS), or else hh will become niche and probably rely heavily on Nintendos 1st party games.

I agree that smartphones suck to game on. I tried to illustrate that thats gaming when its as simple as it gets...

the point of the innovations I mentioned wasnt that they were all a part of the 3DS and Wii U, but that innovation usually adds some thing to the current standard.

smartphones and nintendo dont offer games thats anything alike, but they do compete over the same audience: people, and people seem to prefer cheap games over great games. That is why I think Nintendo should do something new, something we hsvent seen yet, with their next hh. I feel like novelty is what will sell portables as long as theyre competing with smartphones. Perhaps they would be better of going full out as a sort of mid tier gaming platform, like you mentioned in another thread. A $100-150 platform with $20-40 games. 



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

the2real4mafol on 31 March 2014

Dual Analog and battery life of the DS. 3DS has awful battery life.



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

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Kantor on 31 March 2014

-Ideally a proper analog stick, or at least something like what the Vita has.
-A better online system. Seriously, requiring you to contact the other person on another messaging service to add them is just ridiculous.
-Cheaper game price points since 3DS games never seem to be discounted

Other than that, the 3DS is awesome already.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

DerpSandwich on 31 March 2014

A high res screen. Even the most beautiful games just look awful on that tiny thing. Smartphones and the Vita and basically everything that's not a 3DS all have a huge, gorgeous high res screen, and I'm getting sick of playing games that look like a blocky mess. I would even pay for the same graphical power again if it could just output at a higher resolution.

Two sticks and better battery are up there too. But damn, that screen. Here's hoping for an HDS.



Currently playing:

Bloodbath Paddy Wagon Ultra 9

VanceIX on 31 March 2014

A high-res, premium-feel console. Look at the Vita, same price as the XL but looks and feels much more premium, while the XL feels a bit like a fragile toy. At minimum I want a 1080p screen, by 2016-2017 high-res screens should be cheap enough to manufacture to be the norm. I also don't mind if they take out the touchscreen to focus on the main screen, and if they do the main screen should be big with little bezels (a 1080p, 6 in, bezel-less screen would be heavenly). Maybe they can make use of flexible displays by then as well?

Also, dual thumbsticks



                                                                                                               You're Gonna Carry That Weight.

Xbox One - PS4 - Wii U - PC

DanneSandin on 31 March 2014
RolStoppable said:
DanneSandin said:

A somewhat late reply...

Im trying to argue that with the rce competition from smartphones, Nintendo really stupid phones erased this partith next handheld. Making great games just isnt going to cut it this time around (is obvious with the 3DS), or else hh will become niche and probably rely heavily on Nintendos 1st party games.

I agree that smartphones suck to game on. I tried to illustrate that thats gaming when its as simple as it gets...

the point of the innovations I mentioned wasnt that they were all a part of the 3DS and Wii U, but that innovation usually adds some thing to the current standard.

smartphones and nintendo dont offer games thats anything alike, but they do compete over the same audience: people, and people seem to prefer cheap games over great games. That is why I think Nintendo should do something new, something we hsvent seen yet, with their next hh. I feel like novelty is what will sell portables as long as theyre competing with smartphones. Perhaps they would be better of going full out as a sort of mid tier gaming platform, like you mentioned in another thread. A $100-150 platform with $20-40 games. 

The 3DS hardware is detrimental to the success of Nintendo's handheld business, so I don't agree that the 3DS's lack of success proves that making great games alone doesn't cut it. The 2DS came into existence because Nintendo knew that the 3DS is a problem. They didn't manage to solve the problem, of course. The 3DS isn't unlike the Wii U, as in the hardware is holding back everything. That doesn't mean that there weren't issues in Nintendo's software strategy for both systems though. It's not just that the market doesn't care about 3D, the market rejects it. So Nintendo has a trend working against it.

Nintendo's handhelds have always relied heavily on first party games, because there just aren't many developers out there who can make good handheld games with broad appeal. So the existence of smartphones isn't causing a change in regards to that.

Regarding innovations, the eShop and actually marketing it has the potential to be such an innovation. Nintendo shoved their puzzle games on the eShop where they are now invisible to the general public. Those games are also available for a small price. Nintendo needs to get the message out that handhelds have evolved and are connected to the internet nowadays.

Lastly, the pricing. Historically, Nintendo handhelds have launched between $100-150 and had $20-30 games. It's only the 3DS that came with a significant price increase. Because of that you can't look at the 3DS and go into panic mode that doing the same thing isn't working anymore; rather Nintendo is failing because they decided to change their strategy dramatically. A ninth generation Nintendo handheld that launches at $130 with $20-30 games, plus a broad selection of cheaper eShop and VC games, would be the norm rather than a radical new strategy. And with smartphone game developers not daring to challenge most Nintendo IPs, the games available on a handheld can be considered something special.

While I agree that the 3D in the 3DS can be seen, and has been seen, as a fad and something unwanted, Im not sure that alone can explain the decline for the entire handheld market. The Vita was poorly handled as well, but we now have two systems that is selling far worse than their predecessors, and Im having a hard time believing it all comes down to overpricing and the use of 3D.

If handheld became increasingly niche, less 3rd parties will develop for it leading it to become even more niche. It will become a vicious cycle. That may still happen if 3rd parties feel like theres a much bigger audience on smartphones (which there is).

I wouldnt call the eShop an innovation. Sure, its new for Nintendo, but Apples had Appstore for quite a while, and android has its thing and xbox a d ps as well. Where is the innovation? Sure, games on the eShop might rival some of the mobile games price points, but there are hundreds of free games for mobile, AND you dont have to get a separate piece of hardware to play them. THATS what ha dhelds is going up against.

and I cant argue over your last point. Youre probably right, and its something nintendo should do the next time around. Although, I do wonder, if the market is in fact skrinking, that means less hh games are being sold all the while when dev costs are rising... Im not too sure Nintendo actually can afford to drop the pricing to $20-30



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin on 31 March 2014
RolStoppable said:
DanneSandin said:

While I agree that the 3D in the 3DS can be seen, and has been seen, as a fad and somethi. unwanted, Im not sure that alone can explain the decline for the entire handheld market. The Vita was poorly handled as well, but we now have two systems that is selling far worse than their predecessors, and Im having a hard time believing it all comes down to overpricing and the use of 3D.

If handheld became increasingly niche, less 3rd parties will develop for it leading it to become even more niche. It will become a vicious cycle. That may still happen if 3rd parties feel like theres a much bigger audience on smartphones (which there is).

I wouldnt call the eShop an innovation. Sure, its new for Nintendo, but Apples had Appstore for quite a while, and android has its thing and xbox a d ps as well. Where is the innovation? Sure, games on the eShop might rival some of the mobile games price points, but there are hundreds of free games for mobile, AND you dont have to get a separate piece of hardware to play them. THATS what ha dhelds is going up against.

and I cant argue over your last point. Youre probably right, and its something nintendo should do the next time around. Although, I do wonder, if the market is in fact skrinking, that means less hh games are being sold all the while when dev costs are rising... Im not too sure Nintendo actually can afford to drop the pricing to $20-30

Nintendo's software strategy obviously played a part in the decline as well. There is less variety in the visible 3DS library and there was no intent to expand the audience by providing new IPs. Based on that alone, growth over the DS was only possible, if third parties did the trick by attracting audiences that the DS couldn't get a hold of. The Vita had no audience to sell to in America, because the PSP software market had already collapsed before the rise of smartphones. That should have made it clear to Sony that the kind of games they brought to the market were niche material while the hardware sales of the PSP were slowly eroding once phones did all the multimedia functions better.

Where smartphones actually hurted the handhelds in the gaming department is the desire of third parties to make the easy money. Games weren't shifted to mobile because they weren't selling on handhelds anymore, but simply because they were believed to be much more successful on mobile. Software sales for individual third party titles are as strong as ever on handhelds, but a good chunk of games just went missing. Not because people want to game on smartphones, but because the games simply weren't made for handhelds anymore. Ironically, the companies who rushed to mobile are worse off than those who stuck with handhelds, so I am not too worried about a further decrease in handheld game development.

The innovation is in how the eShop is set up. In the most recent investors briefing Iwata talked about a possible reward program where users get discounts based on the money they spent, i.e. someone who spent hundreds of dollars can expect bigger discounts on individual games than someone who just recently started. This would still leave the hurdle of getting people to buy the hardware in the first place, but the chances to keep people in the pool of active users would increase with such a loyalty program. Nintendo has to create games that people feel are worth paying for in order to sell their hardware. This has already been the case before there were free games on smartphones; while it may be more difficult to convince people now, it's far from impossible, especially with the questionable quality control and microtransaction shenanigans on iOS and Android. If free goes bad or lacks desirable content, paying becomes an attractive alternative.

As for development costs, that's why Nintendo shouldn't go much further than 3DS-level when it comes to processing power. The market has clearly signaled that high production values are not in demand, so why go there, if you don't have to? Established dev tools reduce development time and/or manpower, so reducing the prices of software isn't an impossibility. The reduction in profit margin per unit may also be offset by the volume of sales.

While an interesting read, why you write so loooong?! These "smart"phones are surprisingly stupid when quoting on vgc...

so, in short, you dont believe the portable market are in any immidiate danger? Most can and will be recrified next gen if done correctly? I would actually love to hear how you would handle nintendos next handheld.

I do agree that the "loyalty" program for the eShop is a great idea, and something nintendo should implement sooner rather than later. But that alone wont attract much more gamers/players. Its a great idea for those who already own a handheld, but I dont see it attracting a lot of first timers.

Playing on smartphones is so much easier, not because the games are better in any way, but because you already own a phone and mobile games are simply distractions for when you have 5 minutes over. I love SM3DL, but its not just a matter of pick up and play; theres a hell of a lot of button pushing before you actually boot up the gameplay, and youre more invested in it than you would be in like candy crush or ninja fruit.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.