Don Mattrick is the difference - he screwed XB1 over then left

Nah MS can do some PR magic and say the day 1 buyers have the "1st class/premium" experience :P

value not price.

Xbox360 didn't have the same "price" for 5.5 years. They introduced new models that were cheaper and cheaper until the 199 arcade which was in...umm 2008?

What they DID do, is increase the value of their expensive SKU over the years by including bigger drives, more controllers, headset, live, etc.

support?

Give me the list, I'd rather not spend my time on that.

haha yeah. But, makes me think...they possibly could just introduce a new SKU, rather than dropping it.

New SKU at 349 or 399, and sell kinect2 for 200. That could do well for them I think. It would mark the cost of the parts for the consumer, artificially creating value for the packed in SKU.

I just don't know if the system can support running without kinect. I'm not sure how integrated it is with the console to be honest.

You're argument is that price is the LARGEST thing in the PS4's favor.  Then you go on to say IF the One was $100 CHEAPER it would be far ahead.  Yea...but no.  How bout you make them equal in price, if you have such confidence in the One, instead of having MS lose so much on it at $299.  And I doubt it would be WAY ahead.  Most likely they would be at a tie, maybe One slightly ahead.  PS4 has much better HW when compared to the One, so a $50-$100 increase in price is more justifiable to consumers.  Of course, this is just for the US, maybe UK.  It wouldn't be ahead WW.  For proof, just look at the 360 to PS3 situation.  The PS3 is ahead, yet it launched a year late and at a $200 entry price gap.  The PS3 could overcome that, but the One couldn't.  In fact, it won't overcome launching at the same time and only having a $100 entry price gap. 

So yea, price definitely isn't what's wrong here.  You can play that up all you want, while you downplayed it last gen , but that doesn't make it true.  As I said above, the One is in a much better situation than the PS3 was against its competition.  Of course, Sony has more than price in their corner, some of which helped last gen.  PS is just the larger brand, WW.  It has much better press.  It has the better HW, by quite a bit and more so than last gen.  Multiplats are all performing better on it, to varying degrees.  Sony has a great 1st party library, which leads to true exclusives, not timed ones.

Works fine without kinect other than being a bit hard to navigate due to poor UI.

Also there would be no fallout from early adopters they paid more but they got kinect, an early price cut without a downgrade would cause fallout.

But i dont believe they could drop $200 by just removing kinect, xbox is under pressure from shareholders to be super profitable like other divisions, loss leader for a 3rd gen in a row to increase market share would not be acceptable.

Well support as in "existing", the console is in its 9th year....bet nobody saw that coming in 2005 lol. With games, I can allready see this happening: I give the list and you will pick it apart. But for the 9th year with X1 allready out, id say MS didn't have to secure any of these but did anyway.

Fable Anniversary, World of Tanks, Titanfall, Fantasia: Music Evolved, Project Spark, Warface, Trials Fusion (not on PS3), Tropico 5 (not on PS3). Also timed exclusivity of PVZ Z: Garden Warfare and Peggle 2.

Titanfall and Project Spark being the main standouts, Fable Anniversary to a lesser extent for the graphical upgrade and not just being a mere HD release.

There already was some fallout just from the UK price cut, and the game bundurus.

There will be people who just wanted to xb1, and not the kinect, but bought it day 1 thinking there was no way around it. I just don't know how many. It could be a small minority...but they do exist.

Also, iirc an xbox one person tweeted at some point that kinect made up almost half the cost of the system.

If you look at it from the perspective of the ps4, with gddr5 costing in the area of 50-70$ more than the x1, and the chip likely costing around 10-20$ more, You're looking at a system (without kinect) costing roughly 320$ or something. So, yeah, you're basically saddled with a 150-200$ kinect since all the other parts are nearly identical.

Of course price is a big factor,i don't understand what all the fight is about apart from the loyalsits wars

the thing is it is like "2 jobs" PS3 launch and the price with blu ray and teh cell all sony decisions that lost them the war just like microsoft and nintendo have made decisions this time round,one thing is true though and that is sony is winning right now

swings & roundabouts in the loyalists wars