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Forums - Politics Discussion - What does Putin want with Ukraine

 

What is his end state

Annex Ukraine As a whole 337 40.60%
 
Annex Crimea 286 34.46%
 
Defend Russian People Fro... 184 22.17%
 
Total:807
TheJimbo1234 said:

A shrapnel? Seriously?

Seriously? Reformulate your thought if you actually have one so it could be addressed.

TheJimbo1234 said:

So you want black box recordings of every disaster released? Why?? Oh, but you believe the govt of one of the most corrupt and propoganda heavy nations. Ok, go nuts.

No, I do not trust US propaganda on this as they are interested party here.

TheJimbo1234 said:

Why would the Ukarianes have BUKs stationed? Because the rebels were using planes? Oh wait..*rollseyes*

They have been stationed there it is a fact they do not deny. Here's Ukrainian Buk near Soledar, early March of 2014.

TheJimbo1234 said:

You don't know what a transponder is so don't debate about it.

Enlighten me.

TheJimbo1234 said:

Of course they would take the recordings. They would want to see if the pilots said anything about missiles being seen.

They? The very same SBU that has been faking evidences? So where're the recordings now? 

TheJimbo1234 said:

As I said - Ukr don't have stealth planes so radar would have picked them up.

Stealth planes are seen on radars, the military jet has been spotted near MH17 before it crashed by ELINT.

 

Anything else, or should I go for a third round of repeating the same arguments for slow people?



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mai said:
TheJimbo1234 said:

A shrapnel? Seriously?

Seriously? Reformulate your thought if you actually have one so it could be addressed.

TheJimbo1234 said:

So you want black box recordings of every disaster released? Why?? Oh, but you believe the govt of one of the most corrupt and propoganda heavy nations. Ok, go nuts.

No, I do not trust US propaganda on this as they are interested party here.

TheJimbo1234 said:

Why would the Ukarianes have BUKs stationed? Because the rebels were using planes? Oh wait..*rollseyes*

They have been stationed there it is a fact they do not deny. Here's Ukrainian Buk near Soledar, early March of 2014.

TheJimbo1234 said:

You don't know what a transponder is so don't debate about it.

Enlighten me.

TheJimbo1234 said:

Of course they would take the recordings. They would want to see if the pilots said anything about missiles being seen.

They? The very same SBU that has been faking evidences? So where're the recordings now? 

TheJimbo1234 said:

As I said - Ukr don't have stealth planes so radar would have picked them up.

Stealth planes are seen on radars, the military jet has been spotted near MH17 before it crashed by ELINT.

 

Anything else, or should I go for a third round of repeating the same arguments for slow people?


By definition shrapnel is plural, so why did you say "a shrapnel"?

Post proof of US propoganda. Last I checked, it was a free and open country so why all of a sudden are you claiming it is not?

What proof is it that they are Ukr? I don't see any flags or markings on them, or that the footage is even legit.

I'm here to debate, not educate. Go learn the issue with MH17 and transponders on your own.

What proof is there that the SBU have faked evidence?

Well that is a claim and a half about jets - got proof? And no, stealth is not seen on radar as that is the whole point.



TheJimbo1234 said:

By definition shrapnel is plural, so why did you say "a shrapnel"?

Oh, grammar Nazis are on the loose! Mister, I'm expert in treating psychotic disorders with symptoms like seeing KGB agents or Putin trolls everywhere. Butthurt personalities are treated elsewhere.

Would be nice if you could bring anything to the discussion -- like the very same proofs for every sentence you posted so far -- I'm not a lap dog to do the research job for you. I think I brought enough data to the thread so far, your turn.



mai said:

TheJimbo1234 said:

By definition shrapnel is plural, so why did you say "a shrapnel"?

Oh, grammar Nazis are on the loose! Mister, I'm expert in treating psychotic disorders with symptoms like seeing KGB agents or Putin trolls everywhere. Butthurt personalities are treated elsewhere.

Would be nice if you could bring anything to the discussion -- like the very same proofs for every sentence you posted so far -- I'm not a lap dog to do the research job for you. I think I brought enough data to the thread so far, your turn.

Let him be, he's just have nothing to prove!

Btw, did you heard about 60 Saxons which Ukraine bought from UK? They already had a crash with them, two machines broken, one driver dead one injured.
http://www.profi-forex.org/novosti-mira/novosti-sng/ukraine/entry1008248186.html

And they even are not on the frontlines yet!!!!



PDF said:
mai said:
PDF said:

Look at the link I posted, and scroll down a bit.  There you will see a tweet from RT responding to the NATO images claiming the images are from a videogame. 

Yeah my world view is too complicated for you.  Glad you're aware of that.

21:55: "Olga Golovanova, Interfax agency, I have a question to Russian minister. Sergey Viktorovich, recently NATO has accused Russia of military invasion into Ukraine, citing new photo and video materials, reports about movement of thousands of troops. Last night there was a phone call between Obama and Merkel, in which they've supported an idea of new sactions against Russia. How would you comment this situation and what Russian reaction might be to the new wave of sactions? Thank you."

22:30: "Our reaction would be continuing our consecutive attempts to stop violance and begin real nation-wide dialogue and talks about future of Ukraine between all regions and all political parties -- that's what we have agreed on in Geneve in April and in Berlin in July -- and that's what tour Western partners are carefully trying to avoid now. As for accusations, that's not for the first time, basically from the beginning of the crisis we have been blamed for everything. So various conjectures aren't new to us, but we never have been presented with facts. Earlier there were reports about satellite images, which supposedely show Russian troops movement, that turned out to be images from videogames. Last accusations are more or less of the same kind. We haven't been presented with facts nor in regards to invasion, nor... I believe concealing facts is the main feature of the US position for the most part and certain European nations in regards to of everyhting happening in Ukraine, be it alleged Rusian troops movement, as I said it earlier, or direct involvement of American secret service into Ukrainian enforecement training, be it Malaysian Boeing crash investigation, or Maidan tragedy investigation, so called "snipers case", or tragedy in Odessa on May 2nd etc, etc..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8B29lNfaBw

So it wasn't RT responding to it, it was a quote from Lavrov Q&A after meeting with his collegue from Iran last Friday, in which he referred to previous images fake presented by SBU and taken from the game LockOn: Flaminig Cliffs 2, more here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-mh17-supposed-satellite-video-of-missile-launch-fake.4025/

Granted Lavrov mistakenly identified those images as if "Russian troops movement" has been depicted on them, while it was really about Buk missile launch, whice excusable given how many fakes SBU produces. But all in all, this is exactly as I've said it. The episode about video game fake is from totally different story, namely MH17 crash. On top of all Lavrov was misquoted as if he was talking about these specific recently preseneted images, while he was referring to this ancient story.

 

 


The "complicated" comment was an irony, hope you're aware of that. Since you cannot present here smth I don't know already better than you're for obvious reasons, it'd certainly be more valuable to have your opinion on smth more core, related to realpolitik here, aside from these unneeded details that doesn't change much anyway (we all know it's a proxy war), and honestly doesn't worth an effort to discuss, research or debunk just like I did it above with this specific episode, just made an exception this time.

I was fully aware RT was using the response of Lavrov in their tweet.  I was also fully aware that he dismissed the new images, and quickly assumed they were similar to the other "computer generated images".  None of that stopped RT from running with the quote and posting it.  Don't get mad at me for RT doing a terrible job and misleading those who follow its news.  Just wondering if you were one of them.  Nice to know 

Russia involvement as does any nations involvement in this war is very well worth discussing.  Obvious as it may be, does not make it less worth talking about.

'm only basing my comment from the stuff I read from the internet but why is Fox news so hated? I don't have fox news on my cable plan so I have no idea. And which do you thinks is worst? RT or Fox? I have the RT app on my phone and they are too focus on reporting the bad side of western Europe and North America.



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Sharu said:
mai said:

TheJimbo1234 said:

 By definition shrapnel is plural, so why did you say "a shrapnel"?

Oh, grammar Nazis are on the loose! Mister, I'm expert in treating psychotic disorders with symptoms like seeing KGB agents or Putin trolls everywhere. Butthurt personalities are treated elsewhere.

Would be nice if you could bring anything to the discussion -- like the very same proofs for every sentence you posted so far -- I'm not a lap dog to do the research job for you. I think I brought enough data to the thread so far, your turn.

Let him be, he's just have nothing to prove!

Btw, did you heard about 60 Saxons which Ukraine bought from UK? They already had a crash with them, two machines broken, one driver dead one injured.
http://www.profi-forex.org/novosti-mira/novosti-sng/ukraine/entry1008248186.html

And they even are not on the frontlines yet!!!!

An overuse of a classic demagogue's stunt to ask for proofs for evey word but don't bother himself with proofs, tells me he's more of a kind he claimed you to be the one. I wound't mind really, since I have proofs, but if people do not want altenative opinions -- nothing I can do here. Well, can't say I didn't see that coming.

 

 

Yeah, I've seen those. Quoting some British high-ranking serviceman he said about the machines: "It not just looks like s**t, it IS s**t" -- though probably the driver had smth to do with the cause of the accident as well.



TheJimbo1234 said:
mai said:

Stealth planes are seen on radars, the military jet has been spotted near MH17 before it crashed by ELINT.

 

Anything else, or should I go for a third round of repeating the same arguments for slow people?


By definition shrapnel is plural, so why did you say "a shrapnel"?

Post proof of US propoganda. Last I checked, it was a free and open country so why all of a sudden are you claiming it is not?

What proof is it that they are Ukr? I don't see any flags or markings on them, or that the footage is even legit.

I'm here to debate, not educate. Go learn the issue with MH17 and transponders on your own.

What proof is there that the SBU have faked evidence?

Well that is a claim and a half about jets - got proof? And no, stealth is not seen on radar as that is the whole point.


I think he believes that everyone who doesn't share his view is brainwashed by western propaganda and the only news that's is true/neutral are those who share Russias views.

Heck he even called my country.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6983352

"Philipines do look like typical US client state and therefore a proxy." Because we consider China as the bigger threat and not the US.

----------------------------------

Anyway IMO Russian troops are present in East Ukraine. I remember reading Putins denial of Russias presence in Crimea

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/04/285653335/putin-says-those-arent-russian-forces-in-crimea

"he told reporters that the heavily armed men are "local self-defense forces.""

Then

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/russia-putin-crimea-idUKL6N0N921H20140417

""We had to take unavoidable steps so that events did not develop as they are currently developing in southeast Ukraine," Putin said in a televised call-in with the nation. "Of course our troops stood behind Crimea's self-defence forces.""

 

Obviously this are all just my opinion.



Currently playing

IOS - Knights of the Old Republic, Monster Hunter Freedom HD and Idolmaster Festa.

Steam-NovisNoah, Uplay-Limpanot, Origins-NovisNoah, PSN-NovisNoah, NNID-NovisNoah

WorldBreakerHulk said:

I think he believes that everyone who doesn't share his view is brainwashed by western propaganda and the only news that's is true/neutral are those who share Russias views.

It's not very good attitude to start with personal attack. I was mean to the Jimbo solely to the fact he started with personal attack too. So anything to add to the given topic of MH17 crash, or as usual one have a "valuable" opinion but doesn't very in touch with the facts?

P.S.: tiffac somewhat agreed with me on Philippines: "The Philippines is the ass-kisser* of whoever country has money" -- didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings nonetheless.



mai said:
WorldBreakerHulk said:

I think he believes that everyone who doesn't share his view is brainwashed by western propaganda and the only news that's is true/neutral are those who share Russias views.

It's not very good attitude to start with personal attack. I was mean to the Jimbo solely to the fact he started with personal attack too. So anything to add to the given topic of MH17 crash, or as usual one have a "valuable" opinion but doesn't very in touch with the facts?

P.S.: tiffac somewhat agreed with me on Philippines: "The Philippines is the ass-kisser* of whoever country has money" -- didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings nonetheless.

'm not in touch with facts because I don't share your Pro Russian views.

Anyway, looking at your previous post. It seems your only interest is about discussing Politics in a gaming forum and it seems mostly anti west. Your opinion is already dead set, so imo no point engaging it, especially stuff about West and Russia.

-------------

He agreed that the Phil is a US Proxy? When?



Currently playing

IOS - Knights of the Old Republic, Monster Hunter Freedom HD and Idolmaster Festa.

Steam-NovisNoah, Uplay-Limpanot, Origins-NovisNoah, PSN-NovisNoah, NNID-NovisNoah

WorldBreakerHulk said:
mai said:
WorldBreakerHulk said:

I think he believes that everyone who doesn't share his view is brainwashed by western propaganda and the only news that's is true/neutral are those who share Russias views.

It's not very good attitude to start with personal attack. I was mean to the Jimbo solely to the fact he started with personal attack too. So anything to add to the given topic of MH17 crash, or as usual one have a "valuable" opinion but doesn't very in touch with the facts?

P.S.: tiffac somewhat agreed with me on Philippines: "The Philippines is the ass-kisser* of whoever country has money" -- didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings nonetheless.

'm not in touch with facts because I don't share your Pro Russian views.

Anyway, looking at your previous post. It seems your only interest is about discussing Politics in a gaming forum and it seems mostly anti west. Your opinion is already dead set, so imo no point engaging it, especially stuff about West and Russia.

I take it as "No". Your pro-whatever views is none of my interest, you either post facts and opinions based on those facts or beat it. Don't quite get though why bother to post only to attack personally.

I'm here from 2008, mostly used to post in sales discussion and Nintendo forums if you're interested. Today I just don't care that much about gaming, post occasionally only due to force of habbit.