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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - After seeing Bayonetta 2 and 'X' in action today...

 

The PS4's power seems...

Better, but not THAT much better anymore... 241 15.42%
 
Are you crazy?! The PS4 is GOD! 349 22.33%
 
The Wii U is clearly unde... 741 47.41%
 
The PS4 is selling better... 36 2.30%
 
I think I'll be buying a... 191 12.22%
 
Total:1,558
NoirSon on 16 February 2014
cusman said:
ZyroXZ2 said:

Anyone else kind of feel like the PS4's power gap isn't that big anymore?  I mean, sure it's more powerful, but after seeing these two, I don't find myself thinking "Oh, how much better this would have looked on PS4"... Am I the only one that thinks that people will stop thinking the Wii U is underpowered after these two games see daylight?

The problem Wii U has isn't about it not being able to play those 3rd party AAA games, it is whether or not the Wii U would at least get the up-port from the PS3/X360 version of those games.

Nintendo is purely to blame for this because the Wii U lost momentum. It lose momentum because the Gamepad isn't a compelling differentiator and has really only been used in an essential way for Nintendo Land and maybe that Game & Wario game. Bycomparison, the Kinect on XBO has no essential games yet, but has Kinect Sports sequel on the way.

The Gamepad is a non-essential costly pack-in, just like Kinect is for XBO, and to make things worse, it is Nintendo so it means poorer stack of System and Online features on top of being graphically inferior to the XBO and PS4.


I agree to a point, except I believe the Gamepad could be compelling if it was marketed or implemented properly but from the looks of it, Nintendo didn't and won't really do that anytime soon.  In their rush to get the system out on the market they failed in creating or releasing software that used touch functions of the Gamepad as well as many of the original DS' launch titles did years ago with its second touch screen and based off the fact that no game has used it, I think it is safe to assume that the dream of multiple Gamepads connected to one system is just a dream and Nintendo never prepped the system's hardware or OS to handle a second Gamepad, which they could have sold for $100+ and made money on if there was compelling software that had the ability.



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fatslob-:O on 16 February 2014
mine said:

Thanks for showing me that there is no moore's law enforcement... LOL

You done talking yet ? 

And for the transistor count - companies using more transistors to deliver less performance - how many of them are still in business?

How about AMD ? ...

And for your TDP budget argument, just think of the 1st gen iPhone (2007) versus the 5S (2013). According to Apple a 56 TIMES increase in graphics performance.

No shit sherlock ... The first gen iphone had a shit GPU.

Of course you master of anandtech knowledge - I'll bet you've stated in 2007 that in just six years you'll get that kind of performance boost...

You gonna leave this thread now ?

 



oniyide on 16 February 2014
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:

come on man, i never said you did. Im simply stating that infamous SS and X...there is a CLEAR difference between the two. Now if you want to believe that Wii U one day will be able to put something even close to that on the system, then thats on you. We'll agree to disagree. But the whole point of this thread was to try to prove the Wii U was close to PS4. Just putting those two together shows that is pretty false. 

As for X, lets be real they just showed a gameplay trailer, so i say its close to being pretty finishted. People have been swearing that X will be out by this year now you say it wont come out this year? Why? to suit your argument? The last trailer didnt look better than the E3 one. If you are expecting that to change I think you are in for a let down. Not saying the game looks bad though.


I never said there wasn't a clear difference either, I just don't think it's a HUGE difference.

In the latest Nintendo Direct, games like Bayonetta 2 and Smash Bros were listed as "coming in 2014", but no such label was given for X, suggesting it won't be out this year.

Well i think their is a HUGE difference, particle effects only trounce X but we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Fair enough, Some people will be let down and some still think it will be out this year. Maybe it still will...in Japan



curl-6 on 16 February 2014
oniyide said:
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:

come on man, i never said you did. Im simply stating that infamous SS and X...there is a CLEAR difference between the two. Now if you want to believe that Wii U one day will be able to put something even close to that on the system, then thats on you. We'll agree to disagree. But the whole point of this thread was to try to prove the Wii U was close to PS4. Just putting those two together shows that is pretty false. 

As for X, lets be real they just showed a gameplay trailer, so i say its close to being pretty finishted. People have been swearing that X will be out by this year now you say it wont come out this year? Why? to suit your argument? The last trailer didnt look better than the E3 one. If you are expecting that to change I think you are in for a let down. Not saying the game looks bad though.


I never said there wasn't a clear difference either, I just don't think it's a HUGE difference.

In the latest Nintendo Direct, games like Bayonetta 2 and Smash Bros were listed as "coming in 2014", but no such label was given for X, suggesting it won't be out this year.

Well i think their is a HUGE difference, particle effects only trounce X but we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Fair enough, Some people will be let down and some still think it will be out this year. Maybe it still will...in Japan

Yeah, different perspectives and all that. To me a HUGE gap would be Xenoblade to Infamous 2.

Considering we got a gameplay trailer as early as Jan 2013 and that it's one of my most anticipated games, I would love for X to release this year and I expected it to, but I'm sure if it was going to they would have had the same "coming 2014" label after the latest footage was shown. This is Nintendo after all, they delay EVERYTHING.



mine on 16 February 2014
NoirSon said:

I agree to a point, except I believe the Gamepad could be compelling if it was marketed or implemented properly but from the looks of it, Nintendo didn't and won't really do that anytime soon.  In their rush to get the system out on the market they failed in creating or releasing software that used touch functions of the Gamepad as well as many of the original DS' launch titles did years ago with its second touch screen and based off the fact that no game has used it, I think it is safe to assume that the dream of multiple Gamepads connected to one system is just a dream and Nintendo never prepped the system's hardware or OS to handle a second Gamepad, which they could have sold for $100+ and made money on if there was compelling software that had the ability.

According to Nintendos german website the Wii U is capable to be used with two Wii U GamePads. but as long as there is no software to use two gamepads it doesn't make sense to offer them alone (and vice versa). This might change as dropping the Wii U price to a perceived more "valuable" level without further subsidizing might not be possible wihtout unbundling the GamePad. 

We'll see how Mario Kart will affect the Wii U unit sales. I'm sure that if they stay flat Nintendo might just do that. Which won't be that bad - just imagine themed GamePads (like WindWaker) bundled with games using them for 100 bucks. 

Nintendo brought themselfes into big trouble by making not clear to their audience how their games will be played. For many like me the WiiMote / Nunchuck is the best input device ever invented. It was the reason to buy a Wii. I'm tempted to buy a Wii U, but I'm still "not sold" yet. Windwaker was a reason, but I bought a second hand GC disk and playing it. The story is great, but the fighting gameplay is "lame" in comparision to Skyward Sword.

I can imagine that many people like me have the same reservations about the GamePad.

At the moment the biggest selling point for me is - who might have guessed this - Sports Club Tennis and Golf. OK - thats because Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze and Mario Kart 8 are not out yet (and I'm a bit tight on money). But I would have more confidence if Nintendo would show how their new Zelda is going to be played and if there might be a new Metroid Prime.

For me its not about GPU or CPU power. The Wii U should be at least more than 3 times more powerful than the Wii. And many of the "last gen" Wii titles are the best ones out there.

I can imagine that the GamePad can do wonders gameplay wise - but besides Nintendo Land there wasn't shown that much. I think that for user generated content the GamePad with its pen is even better suited than most Tablets... . Both - WiiMote / Nunchuck and GamePad should supplement each to archive the best gameplay possible.

I'm very confident that Nintendo is able to create experiences around the Wii U which will outlast this generation, like they did with the 3DS, Wii, DS, GC, N64, SNES ... its in their DNA.



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Samus Aran on 16 February 2014
JustThatGamer said:
Samus Aran said:


I think GOW 3 looks very plasticy, I don't have that with Bayonetta 2. GOW 3 is trying to be realistic looking, but fails pretty hard. Just because you can make things shiney doesn't mean it looks good. 

(To some guy who said GOW 3 looked better)


LOL, don't try it. GoW3 looks plasticy? Just no, you may think it fails at looking realistic or whatever but I guarantee that the vast majortiy would agree it looks better than Bayonetta 2. Also nobody is saying B2 looks bad so why attack GoW3's visuals?


 

So back to my first comment on this thread, I don't think Bayonetta 2 (or 'X') look good enough to make me think the power gap between the Wii U & PS4 isn't that big, look at B2 compared to GoW 3 & Ascension, if it can't produce better visuals than those games and the PS4 is 10x more powerful than the PS3 just imagine what GoW4 would look like?

I think the power gap is huge and will only get bigger, however B2 & X at least show us that the Wii U could potentially match or better the best looking PS3 games with enough talent, time & resources which is more than good enough for the people who went from Wii to Wii U.

This is a genuine question, but is that last GOW pic from the PS2? God, it looks ugly. Not comparable at all to Bayonetta 2. If that is in fact GOW 3 than you should post a different pic lol, GOW3 looks better in motion than the pics you posted. 

I really hope there won't be a GOW 4, I hope they do a spin-off with a different character. Kratos has been overused and it is getting stale. I actually like God of Wars by the way. Well, not the last one... 

You just reminded me why I don't really like the look of GOW 3, real bodies don't shine like that!(first pic) It looks so plasticy, how can no one see this? 



JoeTheBro on 16 February 2014
mine said:

It makes me laugh reading those posts regarding "fluid simulation" etc. . Who cares? Nobody - I repeat - NOBODY wants this in a game. Like nobody wants real driving simulations as this wouldn't be fun at all ( < 0,5 % might have the skill to drive a F1 car ).

But what people want is immersion. And that begins at the input. Nothing is better for racing "sims" than a force feedback stearing wheel. Nothing is better for a FPS than a WiiMote. Same for most Sports games. 

So people complaining about the missing graphical power of the Wii U but not complaining about the missing input options of their game systems are just fanboys.

So I think the most interesting question is what way of WiiMote+ / Nunchuck, GamePad or Pro Controller gameplay "X" and Bayonetta are going to use. Because this has much more effect on the perceived immersion than any special effects or higher resolution...

No. Fluid simulation has very little to do with gameplay. Don't get confused by the simulation part of the name. It's just a feature that could potentially be used to push graphics.



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mine on 16 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:
mine said:

Thanks for showing me that there is no moore's law enforcement... LOL

You done talking yet ? 

And for the transistor count - companies using more transistors to deliver less performance - how many of them are still in business?

How about AMD ? ...

And for your TDP budget argument, just think of the 1st gen iPhone (2007) versus the 5S (2013). According to Apple a 56 TIMES increase in graphics performance.

No shit sherlock ... The first gen iphone had a shit GPU.

Of course you master of anandtech knowledge - I'll bet you've stated in 2007 that in just six years you'll get that kind of performance boost...

You gonna leave this thread now ?

Its a miracle that AMD is still in business. Just take a look at their quarterly earnings... 

Guess what - X1 / PS4 have both a shit CPU and a low /midrange (at best) GPU. 

Nothing will stop the smartphone performance train. It will even accellerate as Intel isn't going to stay besides and look how ARM is threatening their butter-and-bread business in long term. Expect to have the next-gen Core-i a way better GPU built in which might match the PS4/X1 ones. So within TWO years from now LOW END desktop OFFICE PCs will have that kind of graphics.

Just remember: when the N64 was launched it had SGI 3D technology and sold at a price of a Voodoo 3Dfx card. The needed PC or Mac at that time did cost at least four times the price of the N64. THAT was a High-End console.

The 360 was released with a new GPU gen in a special configuration you couldn't buy for at least one year after its release. The PS3 had a Cell CPU whose successor sold as a PCI card also at least three times the price of the PS3.

As I already wrote: PS4 and X1 are the least capable console gen compared to the PC at launch date. 

And this has a reason - technology is changing to fast. Neither PS4 nor X1 can handle 2K. Not to mention 4K or an Oculus Rift which are "just around the corner". Both even lack basic techologies like Nvidias Gsync which will leapfrog the perceived graphic fidelity (and will ease the burden of programming graphics intense games).

Already now a midrange PC delivers better graphics than a PS4 or X1 ableit at a neglible (compared to previous console generations) higher price. 

So this whole thread is pointless. PS4 owners blaming the Wii U not having "up to date" graphics should sell their console and buy a PC. 

Either you're here for the games or not. If you are it doesn't matter how a Bayonetta or "X" might look on a PS4 or X1 - AS THERE ARE NONE.

If you want to play them you've to buy a Wii U. Same other way around - it doesn't make sense to lament that a PS4 exlusive might be enjoyable on a Wii U with downgraded graphics too. As there wouldn't be a port.

It's funny that the "graphics" argumentation of the X1 and PS4 owners will fall on their feets and hurt them badly. It's already happening with Titanfall on the X1. And as I've shown the PS4 will be not perceived "top notch" anymore when other devices will simply deliver much better graphics for its launch price while the PS4 might be preceived as good-enough at a drastically lowered price...



mine on 16 February 2014
JoeTheBro said:
mine said:

It makes me laugh reading those posts regarding "fluid simulation" etc. . Who cares? Nobody - I repeat - NOBODY wants this in a game. Like nobody wants real driving simulations as this wouldn't be fun at all ( < 0,5 % might have the skill to drive a F1 car ).

 

No. Fluid simulation has very little to do with gameplay. Don't get confused by the simulation part of the name. It's just a feature that could potentially be used to push graphics.

Good point. I know the difference. And I'm fine with the "fluid simulation" as done in Pikmin or Super Mario Galaxy

A real fluid simulation might make sense in a type of "Zen" game where you stare at the water. But if there is action going on nodoby is going to focus on such little details. Playing Metroid Prime (GC port) on the Wii it's astonishing how fast you'll be sucked in and forget about that low-res textures. 

Those graphics effects are just a way to differentiate in a market where innovation doesn't come in buckets but in small drops. I'm to old to be impressed by those things if they don't affect gameplay in a huge way...

I think that the "next big immersion thing" is going to be the Oculus Rift. As Oculus is aiming "for the real thing" there is no PC at the moment capable of handling the GPU demands. So we've to wait maybe two years until there will be high-end systems and up to four until its ready for main stream.. .



oniyide on 16 February 2014
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:

come on man, i never said you did. Im simply stating that infamous SS and X...there is a CLEAR difference between the two. Now if you want to believe that Wii U one day will be able to put something even close to that on the system, then thats on you. We'll agree to disagree. But the whole point of this thread was to try to prove the Wii U was close to PS4. Just putting those two together shows that is pretty false. 

As for X, lets be real they just showed a gameplay trailer, so i say its close to being pretty finishted. People have been swearing that X will be out by this year now you say it wont come out this year? Why? to suit your argument? The last trailer didnt look better than the E3 one. If you are expecting that to change I think you are in for a let down. Not saying the game looks bad though.


I never said there wasn't a clear difference either, I just don't think it's a HUGE difference.

In the latest Nintendo Direct, games like Bayonetta 2 and Smash Bros were listed as "coming in 2014", but no such label was given for X, suggesting it won't be out this year.

Well i think their is a HUGE difference, particle effects only trounce X but we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Fair enough, Some people will be let down and some still think it will be out this year. Maybe it still will...in Japan

Yeah, different perspectives and all that. To me a HUGE gap would be Xenoblade to Infamous 2.

Considering we got a gameplay trailer as early as Jan 2013 and that it's one of my most anticipated games, I would love for X to release this year and I expected it to, but I'm sure if it was going to they would have had the same "coming 2014" label after the latest footage was shown. This is Nintendo after all, they delay EVERYTHING.


I dont buy that trailer we saw was "gameplay" the one in 2013. I think it was tailored trailer just like everybody else does. Now the more recent one, yeah thats gameplay even had teh icons on screen and everything.  Was the Direct English or Japanese. Cause i figured they were talking strictly English releases.