fatslob-:O said: Hynad said: fatslob-:O said: Then why is it so easy to run WII games on my computer than it is for PS2 game ? Somebody is not telling the truth here. It's either the PCSX2 developers that are wrong or it's the nintendo fans that are wrong.  I think you may be the one that's wrong. PS2 games run really good on my PC compared to Wii games.  You probably haven't configured PCSX2 properly. It may be just your PC then. PS2 emulation has ALWAYS been more CPU limited and that's due to the fact that the PS2 was prettty reliant on it's emotion engine and vector units. Increases in CPU performance these past serveral years have been incremental at best whereas GPU's have being just exploding in performance gains. What makes easier emulation for WII is it's graphics chip is pretty similar to a PC compared the PS2s special inhouse graphics synthesizer chip.  What's your GPU anyways ?

Come on. I run PS2 games in 1080p or 720p using a Q9300. Games run smoothly, and my GPU is a 5770. 

curl-6 said: fatslob-:O said: Hynad said: fatslob-:O said: Then why is it so easy to run WII games on my computer than it is for PS2 game ? Somebody is not telling the truth here. It's either the PCSX2 developers that are wrong or it's the nintendo fans that are wrong.  I think you may be the one that's wrong. PS2 games run really good on my PC compared to Wii games.  You probably haven't configured PCSX2 properly. It may be just your PC then. PS2 emulation has ALWAYS been more CPU limited and that's due to the fact that the PS2 was prettty reliant on it's emotion engine and vector units. Increases in CPU performance these past serveral years have been incremental at best whereas GPU's have being just exploding in performance gains. What makes easier emulation for WII is it's graphics chip is pretty similar to a PC compared the PS2s special inhouse graphics synthesizer chip.  What's your GPU anyways ?  The Wii GPU isn't remotely similar to any PC GPU released since the DX7 chips of the late 90s. It uses register combiners instead of the programmable pixel shaders used in DX8 and up. Like you said, PS2 emulation is CPU bound. With Wii/GC, CPU emulation isn't as difficult, as they use single core, single threaded PowerPC 750 cores.

D3D Pixel shaders are more powerful than register combiners so I don't know what your trying to get at. Even if it ain't exactly like a PC GPU other PC GPUs that had D3D pixel shaders supported superceded the ati flippers register combiners. 

Register combiners can be emulated by programmable shaders, but in terms of developing for it, the hardware is very different, you have to use totally different techniques. Wii's GPU is not similar to any PC GPU from DX8 onwards.

Well we all know that the WII U can probably support pixel shaders too so what other excuse is there left ? 

Hynad said: fatslob-:O said: Hynad said: fatslob-:O said: Then why is it so easy to run WII games on my computer than it is for PS2 game ? Somebody is not telling the truth here. It's either the PCSX2 developers that are wrong or it's the nintendo fans that are wrong.  I think you may be the one that's wrong. PS2 games run really good on my PC compared to Wii games.  You probably haven't configured PCSX2 properly. It may be just your PC then. PS2 emulation has ALWAYS been more CPU limited and that's due to the fact that the PS2 was prettty reliant on it's emotion engine and vector units. Increases in CPU performance these past serveral years have been incremental at best whereas GPU's have being just exploding in performance gains. What makes easier emulation for WII is it's graphics chip is pretty similar to a PC compared the PS2s special inhouse graphics synthesizer chip.  What's your GPU anyways ?  Come on. I run PS2 games in 1080p or 720p using a Q9300. Games run smoothly, and my GPU is a 5770.

How does your computer do against wii games ? 

Frame rate is bad in most games. Super Mario Galaxy runs very slowly, so does Last Story, and Xenoblade is a mixed bag.

Wii U supports pixel shaders, that is a given, going by the effects we're seeing it pull off. But that doesn't mean it is an off-the-shelf GPU, as Nintendo tends not to use these. If it was an off-the-shelf part it would have been identified immediately.

I completely disagree.

How can you arrive at this conclusion? Why do you ignore the most important stuff? There are more than those 2 customizations. The PS4 APU (and the whole console) is highly customized by Sony:

- Volatile Bit cache for compute/graphics better simultaneous uses.

- Onion bus which can completely bypass GPU caches.

- Unified GDDR5 memory which is a first for a CPU (not obviously for a GPU).

- Low power mode which can just power the ram, nothing else, not even the CPU (nor the GPU obviously). (not sure here, can recent PCs do that?)

All those elements to my knowledge had never been done on a APU before. Even the PS4 motherboard glorious sleek design is very far away from a PC motherboard as seen on the PS4 tear down. Not even talking about the small size of the machine nor the ingenious cooling of the machine: obliqued shape for insuring air release, circular "slits" which insure air entrance even if console blocked by stuff, passive cooling of GDDR5 chips on the EM shield (the ones that are at the back of the motherboard!! so much usual on PC!!), advanced active cooling by state of the art Sony centrifugal fan. Finally the PS4 APU is the bigger ever designed.

It is as much customized you can get (nowadays) actually.

In my opinion.

WiiU can support this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APWTJMyM4qg

end of story!!

I'll just chime in here and then take off. Someone else expand or "fix" what I say. The GPU in both the GC and the Wii weren't really customized, they just came from a different graphics vendor that was bought out by ATI mid way through GC development. That graphic vendor had decided on creating the TEV unit for lighting and shading via hardware code. For comparison nvidia had chosen programmable shaders for their lighting and shading and Sony had chosen a custom method involving co-processors and whatever GPU functions Toshiba built them (I think it was Toshiba). Saying the GPUs in the GC and Wii are heavily customized is like saying the GPU in the Dreamcast is heavily customized despite being an off the shelf PowerVR card. Graphics at the time didn't really become unified until the Geforce 3 and Radeon 9000 came out. It's been update and iterate since. Though I am talking out of my ass based on what I've read about. To say there's been no customization is foolish, but to think that Nintendo went out of their way to customize graphics is also foolish.