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Forums - General Discussion - Is fear a choice? What do you fear and why?

I fear death. And death of others.

The whole idea of no longer existing, with the possibility of nothing beyond death.

I randomly start thinking of such things (I'd say once every few months) and boy does it leave me super depressed state.........



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Michael-5 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Your brain is designed to catastrophise things. With early man, the person who decided that the rustling leaves was just the wind, got eaten by a tiger *. If you have a traumatic experience with something, especially at a young age, your brain is going to associate that with catastrophe, and boom, a fear is born.

You can also learn fears from others, ie, I learned my fear of spiders from my mother (also, had some traumatic experiences when I was younger... but already had the fear by that point).

It's not a choice, but it's not random. Fears do pass with experience, though. A common example of this is fear of flying - clocking up enough air miles tends to get people over this (particularly once they have enough for a free upgrade!).

* You can thank Stefan Molyneux for this argument

I agree 100%

My fear is heights, always had it, with no cue for fearing it. It's true that I fell from a tall tree when I was 6 or so, but I was terrified of heights before falling from that tree. The only reason I was up that high in the first place was because someone convinced me "there is nothing to be afraid of."

With that example of hard wiring the fear of rusling leaves, I think people who weren't naturally afraid of cliffs, or high places, tended to fall to their deaths a little more frequently then people like myself. However clearly many people without this fear lived on, otherwise we'd all be afraid of heights like myself.

Farsala said:
Fear is a choice imo. You could become a mindless drone and have no fear. If you were born without any senses at all it would impossible to feel fear imo.

To be born with or without senses, doesn't sound like a choice to me. In fact it sounds like the opposite.

Say you are born in a room without senses. You still got the senses but there would be no way of finding out. Thus no way of finding a fear.



Farsala said:
Michael-5 said:

Farsala said:
Fear is a choice imo. You could become a mindless drone and have no fear. If you were born without any senses at all it would impossible to feel fear imo.

To be born with or without senses, doesn't sound like a choice to me. In fact it sounds like the opposite.

Say you are born in a room without senses. You still got the senses but there would be no way of finding out. Thus no way of finding a fear.

That's a different arguement. That's being born with a pre-wired fear of something, just never encountering that something.

That's the same as me being afraid of heights, but living my life somewhere flat. I'm still afraid of heights, if I go on a plane, near a cliff, or in a tall tower, I will still be afraid. Just until I do, I won't know that.

In this case, my only choice would be to live without the stimulus which causes me to be fearful. However I do not have the choice not to be afraid of heights when placed in that position.



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Will Smith said fear is a choice. You calling The Fresh Prince a liar?
*cracks knuckles*



I fear being a broken man. I fear depression and listlessness. I fear failure.

Ironic that these fears don't help prevent what you fear.

Life's tough sometimes.



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I have a phobia about having my blood drawn, certain parts of my neck touched, and tight spaces only when laying down.

Yet vampires don't scare me at all....



Michael-5 said:
DeadNotSleeping said:
Michael-5 said:
DeadNotSleeping said:

Your reasons are your own; I cannot tell you why you make the choices you make.  Not for this or anything else for that matter.  Only you can answer those questions.

Well I can tell you that I don't choose to be afraid. I love roller coasters because I love moving fast, but every single time I want to jump out and walk down because of the height. If you you say about value of life vs. payoff is true, why would I prefer to walk down the roller coaster, vs. just let myself safely fall on the train? Why would I sit on the ledge of a tall apartment just to try and overcome my fear?

Nothing happened to me as a kid which would make me fear heights, it's something I've always been afraid of, for as long as I can remember. Also I find that I'm more fearful of the safer ways to be high (like roller coasters) then the dangerous ones (like bungie jumping or sky diving).


You keep asking me questions that you ought to be asking yourself.  You made your choices, now it is up to you to understand them.  That you continue asking me these questions when I've told you more than once to look within yourself suggests to me an unwillingness on your part to comprehend yourself.  That unwillingness will only impede your progress.  At some point you set the parameters in your mind to respond fearfully when presented with certain stimuli.  Try to understand why you set those parameters where they currently are.  Not one else set them.  You chose to be afraid when those conditions were met just as you choose to confront your fears ineffectively.  Your conviction in trying to choose to no longer fear heights is simply weaker than your certainty to fear them.  But I cannot tell you why that is so, for it is your mind in question.  You made these rules for yourself, not I.  You are the only one answerable to your own free will.

My point is I didn't make these choices. I have always been afraid of heights, and I know it's irrational, but that's just the way it is. I'm calm enough to understand the situation when it happens, but I'm still terrified.

I'm not unwilling to comprehend myself, I just know that I have always been afraid of heights, and there's absolutly no reason for me to have convinced myself that height's are something to be scared of. My mind knows that if I fall I could die (even if falling off is impossible like on a rollar coaster), and when that happens my body reacts by being tense, emotional, panicked. I don't choose to feel this way, it's something pre-programmed into my head.

I'm telling you, I didn't choose to be afraid of heights. I'm telling you that you are wrong. Maybe you may have been able to confront your fears and just convince yourself that there is nothing to be afraid of, but to that I say what you think you were afraid of, wasn;t really fear. Fear is something irrational, it's a que that sets off a trigger in your mind for your body to adapt in a specific way. It's no different from smelling fire and knowing something is wrong, or smelling a phermone and being attracted to something.

I think some fears can be treated, like araknophobia, and many phobia's/fears are listed a psychological disorders in the DSM IV. However it's also accepted that many fears (like being afraid of the dark) are hard wired into our DNA because those who involuntarily feared the dark, didn't venture into it, and evolved due to natural selection.

My point is, some fears like darkness or heights (like mine) are not optional. They are hard wired into the mind. I'm telling you, that I feel you are wrong, and you didn't catch that point.


You have decided that your fears are not optional, that they are hard-wired into your mind.  Therefore, they are so.  And you will never overcome them so long as you stand by your decision.  Any attempt to confront them will be challenged by the choice you have already made.  Since you believe that choice to be outside your ability to undo, you choose to be unable to overcome your fears.  That is how you've decided to apply your free will, though I cannot fathom why you insist on doing so.



DeadNotSleeping said:
Michael-5 said:
DeadNotSleeping said:

You keep asking me questions that you ought to be asking yourself.  You made your choices, now it is up to you to understand them.  That you continue asking me these questions when I've told you more than once to look within yourself suggests to me an unwillingness on your part to comprehend yourself.  That unwillingness will only impede your progress.  At some point you set the parameters in your mind to respond fearfully when presented with certain stimuli.  Try to understand why you set those parameters where they currently are.  Not one else set them.  You chose to be afraid when those conditions were met just as you choose to confront your fears ineffectively.  Your conviction in trying to choose to no longer fear heights is simply weaker than your certainty to fear them.  But I cannot tell you why that is so, for it is your mind in question.  You made these rules for yourself, not I.  You are the only one answerable to your own free will.

My point is I didn't make these choices. I have always been afraid of heights, and I know it's irrational, but that's just the way it is. I'm calm enough to understand the situation when it happens, but I'm still terrified.

I'm not unwilling to comprehend myself, I just know that I have always been afraid of heights, and there's absolutly no reason for me to have convinced myself that height's are something to be scared of. My mind knows that if I fall I could die (even if falling off is impossible like on a rollar coaster), and when that happens my body reacts by being tense, emotional, panicked. I don't choose to feel this way, it's something pre-programmed into my head.

I'm telling you, I didn't choose to be afraid of heights. I'm telling you that you are wrong. Maybe you may have been able to confront your fears and just convince yourself that there is nothing to be afraid of, but to that I say what you think you were afraid of, wasn;t really fear. Fear is something irrational, it's a que that sets off a trigger in your mind for your body to adapt in a specific way. It's no different from smelling fire and knowing something is wrong, or smelling a phermone and being attracted to something.

I think some fears can be treated, like araknophobia, and many phobia's/fears are listed a psychological disorders in the DSM IV. However it's also accepted that many fears (like being afraid of the dark) are hard wired into our DNA because those who involuntarily feared the dark, didn't venture into it, and evolved due to natural selection.

My point is, some fears like darkness or heights (like mine) are not optional. They are hard wired into the mind. I'm telling you, that I feel you are wrong, and you didn't catch that point.


You have decided that your fears are not optional, that they are hard-wired into your mind.  Therefore, they are so.  And you will never overcome them so long as you stand by your decision.  Any attempt to confront them will be challenged by the choice you have already made.  Since you believe that choice to be outside your ability to undo, you choose to be unable to overcome your fears.  That is how you've decided to apply your free will, though I cannot fathom why you insist on doing so.

And you have decided that you know the answer to what fear is and everyone else is wrong if they disagree with you.

You are telling me that fear is a decision, but I am in disagreement with you. Maybe you believe fear is a decision because you yourself have no true fears thus for you it's easy to tell people "just get over it."

I am telling you, respectfully, that you are incorrent, and when you attempt to convince me that your opinion is 100% correct, and mine is 100% wrong, and that I've decided on what to fear, all I see is a big ego.



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I think fear in and of itself is something you can't control. It's a defense mechanism designed to keep you alive. Fear is good. However, you can overcome fear by being educated. You can learn not to fear water by learning to swim. You can learn to overcome fear of heights by repetition and safety measures. You can have a fear of dogs but if you're around them all of the time without an incident, you learn to be comfortable around them. I used to be afraid of public speaking but after learning to laugh at myself, I overcame it.

Then, you have your irrational fears. These are the fears that people have despite there being no reasonable justification. Perhaps they can be overcome but those in fear have no choice in the matter. You can say to yourself, "I'm not going to be afraid." or "If I die, I die. So be it." but when the situation actually arises, there's just no way to say how you'll react.

Mike Tyson said "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.". I've personally gone into some crazy stuff and wound up panicking. You can't control it. Fear isn't a choice.



Fear does not exist in this dojo. Does it?



 

 

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