dtekdahl00 said: Whoa, calm down there Loadedstatement. Nobody is complaining. I'm just wondering, thats all. There is nothing wrong with that. Plus I intend on using other characters anyway, I just don't see the logic is all.

By no means am I lashing out at you.  If it seemed that way, Im sorry.  I was more making a statement about people who, in general, complain about it all.  If I remember correctly, when the rumors started circulating about Wolf, everyone was psyched.  Wolf would be awesome!  People get greedy and just want more and more content.  Over 700 people have worked their asses off for a VERY long time to give us this game.  It will definitely pay off in sales, but I am/was getting tired of all the complaining about clones and other little things.  I think Sakurai and staff have been amazing.  I mean, who else is willing to update a website with new info, screenshots,etc for 7 different regions every single weekday?  Its the first Ive ever seen.  And they listened to the fans on A LOT.  This game is 95% fanservice to me.  Im surprised to see anyone complaining.  Like I said though, it'll pay off in sales.  Even the complainers will shell out the money.</rant> 

 

loadedstatement said: dtekdahl00 said: Whoa, calm down there Loadedstatement. Nobody is complaining. I'm just wondering, thats all. There is nothing wrong with that. Plus I intend on using other characters anyway, I just don't see the logic is all. By no means am I lashing out at you.  If it seemed that way, Im sorry.  I was more making a statement about people who, in general, complain about it all.  If I remember correctly, when the rumors started circulating about Wolf, everyone was psyched.  Wolf would be awesome!  People get greedy and just want more and more content.  Over 700 people have worked their asses off for a VERY long time to give us this game.  It will definitely pay off in sales, but I am/was getting tired of all the complaining about clones and other little things.  I think Sakurai and staff have been amazing.  I mean, who else is willing to update a website with new info, screenshots,etc for 7 different regions every single weekday?  Its the first Ive ever seen.  And they listened to the fans on A LOT.  This game is 95% fanservice to me.  Im surprised to see anyone complaining.  Like I said though, it'll pay off in sales.  Even the complainers will shell out the money.

 Good point, I mean you have right to complain if it didn't live up to what it said it was going to (Halo 3), and this game has all of that and more, I would have never dreamed up a stage editor mode, but once I saw it I was really psyched, it makes Brawl just that more unlimited it the way you play, everyone has one little hope for any game that didn't make it in the final product, but when you sit down and play it you'll never think about that one little thing cause you'll focus on the big picture.

Without a doubt I'm sure that Brawl will live up to the hype. Does anyone know how old Sakurai is compared to Miyamoto?

loadedstatement said: Stop complaining. My god. You will love the game. Who gives a shit if there are 3 clones?

 I give a shit. They could have given him a somewhat unique moveset and kept him as a character with very little trouble. Instead the entire Star Fox franchise is represented by one character. Clones are ok, but you need some original characters as well. I think there are too many new characters who are clones or close to it for characters we already had in Melee. I am certain the game will rock, but I would be much happier with fewer characters if it meant more of them had a unique moveset.

Gnizmo said: loadedstatement said: Stop complaining. My god. You will love the game. Who gives a shit if there are 3 clones?  I give a shit. They could have given him a somewhat unique moveset and kept him as a character with very little trouble. Instead the entire Star Fox franchise is represented by one character. Clones are ok, but you need some original characters as well. I think there are too many new characters who are clones or close to it for characters we already had in Melee. I am certain the game will rock, but I would be much happier with fewer characters if it meant more of them had a unique moveset.

 You would rather than just take out Wolf and all the other clones?  Im sure the dev team would have put more time into the if they....had more time.  I dont think they sat around saying "Hey!  Lets make clones! I bet the fans with just LOVE clones!"  Maybe they should recruit you to program in their spiffy new movesets and animations and such, seeing as it is "very little trouble". =P 

 

loadedstatement said: Gnizmo said: loadedstatement said: Stop complaining. My god. You will love the game. Who gives a shit if there are 3 clones?  I give a shit. They could have given him a somewhat unique moveset and kept him as a character with very little trouble. Instead the entire Star Fox franchise is represented by one character. Clones are ok, but you need some original characters as well. I think there are too many new characters who are clones or close to it for characters we already had in Melee. I am certain the game will rock, but I would be much happier with fewer characters if it meant more of them had a unique moveset.  You would rather than just take out Wolf and all the other clones?  Im sure the dev team would have put more time into the if they....had more time.  I dont think they sat around saying "Hey!  Lets make clones! I bet the fans with just LOVE clones!"  Maybe they should recruit you to program in their spiffy new movesets and animations and such, seeing as it is "very little trouble". =P

Actually I would rather have them take out Wolf. Considering they had to program the moves into him and the animations for him the extra step to varying his moves some would not be astronomical. I am fine with a few clones but too many of the "new" characters keep coming off more like rips from Melee. Lucario is looking to be similar to Mewtwo, and Lucas is so close to Ness everyone thought his move set was confirmation that the Ness was axed. For all the talk about hating clones and wanting to be rid of them not much progress was made with it.

 Why not just keep Pichu or Roy instead of another Fox clone? Why not take all the effort into creating his animations and balancing his moves and speed and give Ganondorf a moveset that makes sense for him? They have had no shortage of funding, talent, or time. There was a concious choice somewhere along the line to make Wolf yet another clone of Fox instead of making him a new unique character. If you can come up with a character like Olimar then you can invent a few new moves for a fairly popular character.

 And I would be a bit happier with fewer clones. They are fun, and add a bit of charm but you don't need so many. I would like a 30 character list where everyone had a semi-unique moveset more than a 35 character roster that has a clone of a clone. It is lame and boring to have the differences between characters be reduced to nothing but speed and power. The more it happens the less happy I am with the game.

 And yes there are a ton of very talented hard working people pouring their blood sweat and tears into this game that deserve our respect. The exact same thing can be said about Lair though. Infact, you can say that about a whole mess of games that get blasted for sucking in one way or another. A lot of the problems these games suffer from originate from a lack of time. They have the list of bugs and technical issues infront of them, and it is right next to the non-negotiable release date. Brawl clearly had more flexability than your standard game, and probably most high budget games. Still these games get ridiculed for their mistakes and you would have Brawl get a free pass.

 No matter how good a game is it should not be above critiscism. Do you think making Wolf a clone of Fox was good in someway? I can't think of a way it was but maybe you have insight I don't. If it was time constraints that forced their hands (and it easily could have been) then they are yet another over ambitious developer who had to cut corners at the last second to put their product out on the market. Kind of like how you might not be able to perfect a control scheme before your financing gets pulled and you are told to finalize the game. Wolf being a clone was a stupid decision and the creators deserve every bit of fanboy rage thrown at them for going with it.

well some people like me love clones, i absolutely love falco and luigi over mario and fox. And I think i couldlove wolf... i dunno if hes not too slow he could be great because im already used to that moveset with falco. I think its great that he is a clone

Gnizmo said: loadedstatement said: Gnizmo said: loadedstatement said: Stop complaining. My god. You will love the game. Who gives a shit if there are 3 clones?  I give a shit. They could have given him a somewhat unique moveset and kept him as a character with very little trouble. Instead the entire Star Fox franchise is represented by one character. Clones are ok, but you need some original characters as well. I think there are too many new characters who are clones or close to it for characters we already had in Melee. I am certain the game will rock, but I would be much happier with fewer characters if it meant more of them had a unique moveset.  You would rather than just take out Wolf and all the other clones?  Im sure the dev team would have put more time into the if they....had more time.  I dont think they sat around saying "Hey!  Lets make clones! I bet the fans with just LOVE clones!"  Maybe they should recruit you to program in their spiffy new movesets and animations and such, seeing as it is "very little trouble". =P    Actually I would rather have them take out Wolf. Considering they had to program the moves into him and the animations for him the extra step to varying his moves some would not be astronomical. I am fine with a few clones but too many of the "new" characters keep coming off more like rips from Melee. Lucario is looking to be similar to Mewtwo, and Lucas is so close to Ness everyone thought his move set was confirmation that the Ness was axed. For all the talk about hating clones and wanting to be rid of them not much progress was made with it.  Why not just keep Pichu or Roy instead of another Fox clone? Why not take all the effort into creating his animations and balancing his moves and speed and give Ganondorf a moveset that makes sense for him? They have had no shortage of funding, talent, or time. There was a concious choice somewhere along the line to make Wolf yet another clone of Fox instead of making him a new unique character. If you can come up with a character like Olimar then you can invent a few new moves for a fairly popular character.  And I would be a bit happier with fewer clones. They are fun, and add a bit of charm but you don't need so many. I would like a 30 character list where everyone had a semi-unique moveset more than a 35 character roster that has a clone of a clone. It is lame and boring to have the differences between characters be reduced to nothing but speed and power. The more it happens the less happy I am with the game.  And yes there are a ton of very talented hard working people pouring their blood sweat and tears into this game that deserve our respect. The exact same thing can be said about Lair though. Infact, you can say that about a whole mess of games that get blasted for sucking in one way or another. A lot of the problems these games suffer from originate from a lack of time. They have the list of bugs and technical issues infront of them, and it is right next to the non-negotiable release date. Brawl clearly had more flexability than your standard game, and probably most high budget games. Still these games get ridiculed for their mistakes and you would have Brawl get a free pass.  No matter how good a game is it should not be above critiscism. Do you think making Wolf a clone of Fox was good in someway? I can't think of a way it was but maybe you have insight I don't. If it was time constraints that forced their hands (and it easily could have been) then they are yet another over ambitious developer who had to cut corners at the last second to put their product out on the market. Kind of like how you might not be able to perfect a control scheme before your financing gets pulled and you are told to finalize the game. Wolf being a clone was a stupid decision and the creators deserve every bit of fanboy rage thrown at them for going with it.

 I'm very tired.  We shall continue this in the morning.  Its 2:20am here and I'm waking up soon.  All I can say right now is that I do see where you are coming from.  Like all games, Brawl should not and will not escape criticism though. 

 

If you don't like Wolf, then don't play with him.
I fail to see how this is a negative thing. Instead of having 25 characters, it has 35 with some characters having a close (and in some cases identical) moveset. Just think that there were 25 characters.
It is not like you will be playing all the characters. At the end you'll end up sticking to 3-4 of them.

cebrian said: well some people like me love clones, i absolutely love falco and luigi over mario and fox. And I think i couldlove wolf... i dunno if hes not too slow he could be great because im already used to that moveset with falco. I think its great that he is a clone

 Oh I know some people do love the clones and that is why I was very carefuly with my wording. I did my best (and think I succeded) in not saying what they should have done. I am just trying to say what I would have rather had them do. Given they get paid millions of dollars a year, and I am struggling to pay for college I have a feeling their judgment is a wee bit better than mine on this subject. It is entirely possible that my vision of the game would cause it to be the biggest flop of all time. I will still bitch and moan about every aspect I feel is too far away from what I want though. Just the nature of life and the internet.

 Developer resources are limited, and so is disc space ultimately. You have to decide what can or can't be included due to budget, time, and space limitations. The more time spent working on clones that will not enhance the game for me at all means less time can be spent working on new items or new stages or more Subspace Emissary levels or over all game balance or the million other things that need to be perfected. I would have rather had even one more stage rather than the new Fox and Ness clones. I would take a unique moveset for Ganondorf over all the clones they had to work on.