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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Square Enix detail where their losses are coming from

Darc Requiem said:
@Soleron

I'm still trying to figure out Sleeping Dogs. I mean how is it even possible to lose money on that game. Activision had basically paid for almost all the games development when it was going to be the next True Crime. All SE did was publish, I mean anything they sold should have been nothing but gravy.


They had to buy it from activision. So if they overpaid because they thought they were getting a super GTA like franchise, that's how.

Also those 3 games as far as I can tell didn't necessarily lose money as the budget shows. (they could have) just that they didn't meet expectations. These expectationss would have offset their expected losses and resulted in profit.

The only way you'll know if those games lost money is to know what their budget was.



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The real question is; where did all that money go?!
A quick "back-of-the-envelope" maths and they should have made good profit.........oh wait, but have you seen modern day game credits? It looks like games have to fund every person in a country and then some.
Why?! What do all these people do? Do they really need 350+ people to "publish" a game eg. put it on a disc and ship it?
No. Of course not, and this is what the "restructure" really is.

Though as a side note, it would be interesting to see how much money the investors made and if they received pay-outs before the studio and publisher did.



Two horrible, absolutely atrocious things happening in this topic.

1. SE blaming 3 games that sold 1.75, 3.6 and 3.4 MILLION.

2. Metacritic rating? I'm sorry but a game isn't reviewed until AFTER it is already finished, and thus all the money has already been spent. SO tell me how a metacritic rating matters in terms of bugdet? Even if the game got a 100 on metacritic doesn't refute the fact that SE already needed to sell "X" amount of games to break even.



am i reading this wrong?

1B yen loss on opening/failing/closing a causal/smartphone studio
2.5B yen loss on restructuring
2B yen loss on canceled projects

..to me this isn't saying sleeping dog, tomb raider, or hitman failed to profit. it just failed to overcome SE terrible management of their company.



These companies set high sale's for there games and when they do hit that number there stocks sink and people lose there jobs.they need to set slaes low.



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kitler53 said:
am i reading this wrong?

1B yen loss on opening/failing/closing a causal/smartphone studio
2.5B yen loss on restructuring
2B yen loss on canceled projects

..to me this isn't saying sleeping dog, tomb raider, or hitman failed to profit. it just failed to overcome SE terrible management of their company.

I wanan see yen loss on Versus development.

BILLIONS



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kitler53 said:
am i reading this wrong?

1B yen loss on opening/failing/closing a causal/smartphone studio
2.5B yen loss on restructuring
2B yen loss on canceled projects

..to me this isn't saying sleeping dog, tomb raider, or hitman failed to profit. it just failed to overcome SE terrible management of their company.

that's what I saw too. Without knowing the budgets of said games, it's imposssible to say one way or the other. Other then it adds another layer of incompetence if they are not in fact going to make some profit on those games.

To me, it seemed they were expecting those games to cover their mismanagement, and they didn't. Granted in most cases when games release it's going to be offsetting the costs of other games currently under development. Just like FFXIII-2 and Deus Ex did while tomb raider was in development, etc.

But the fact is Tomb Raider had the highest opening in the franchise, and Hitman was the 2nd highest selling hitman and they still ended losing 10 billion yen says something. Which is why he's canned.



ishiki said:
kitler53 said:
am i reading this wrong?

1B yen loss on opening/failing/closing a causal/smartphone studio
2.5B yen loss on restructuring
2B yen loss on canceled projects

..to me this isn't saying sleeping dog, tomb raider, or hitman failed to profit. it just failed to overcome SE terrible management of their company.

that's what I saw too. Without knowing the budgets of said games, it's imposssible to say one way or the other. Other than it adds another layer of incompetence if they are not in fact going to make a profit.

But to me, it seemed they were expecting those games to cover their mismanagement, and they didn't. Granted in most cases when games release it's going to be offsetting the costs of other games currently under development. Just like FFXIII-2 and Deus Ex did while tomb raider was in development, etc.

But the fact is Tomb Raider had the highest opening in the franchise, and Hitman was the 2nd highest selling hitman and they still ended losing 10 billion yen says something. Which is why he's caanned.

that.

not to mention 10B yen is ~100M dollars. tomb raider, sleeping dogs, and hitman shouldn't have had $100M budgets combined less alone losses from.  SE doesn't really deserve to be in business with these kinds of results.



What???!!! Similar games to Sleeping Dogs, Hitman and Tomb Raider have had profit with less sells.

I think, they are having loopholes and spending more than they should in games development. They could make the same game with less money.



outlawauron said:
benao87 said:
outlawauron said:
Some more bad reporting.

None of these things happened.

"For reference, Sleeping Dogs has moved 1.75 million copies, Hitman Absolution 3.6 million and Tomb Raider 3.4 million."

That was their official expectations for the titles based off the metric they provided in the report. All it takes is some reading to look at their official reports and see that those are what those numbers are for. They shipped far less than that.

, this time they clarify the thing, check this: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/explanatory_20130326en.pdf

They do not say what's the exact prediction, but the part where he says "Let’s talk about Sleeping Dogs: we were looking at selling roughly 2~2.5 million units in the EUR/NA market based on its game content, genre and Metacritic scores. In the same way, game quality and Metacritic scores led us to believe that Hitman had potential to sell 4.5~5 million units and 5~6 million units for Tomb Raider in EUR/NA and Japanese markets combined." it's taken literally form that report.

So if he states that they are not telling the exact prediction, I'm going that those other numbers are the actual sales rather than the predictions.

So, what Faxandu says pretty much nails it.

On page 5 of 12, zoom in on the picture/graph. It clearly labels the expect sales of the games for FY '13. That's where the numbers 1.75, 3.6, and 3.4 came from. They got those numbers using the formula they provided.


Yet they state in the same page, "We do not disclose the number of sales units anticipated in our forecast, and although I cannot mention exact unit numbers, I would like to touch on how we approach these figures".