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Forums - General Discussion - When you think about it, Scientifically we really dont know anything.......

Mazty on 03 January 2013
Kantor said:
Well of course not. We don't KNOW anything in any field because technically it's impossible to ever know anything. We could all just be deluding ourselves and making the exact same logical error.

But that way of thinking is silly and pointless and so we avoid it.

The important thing is that science has given us a far better idea of what surrounds us than we would otherwise have, certainly far better than what religion has given us. And you don't need a thermometer to measure temperature; it would just melt if it went anywhere near the sun.


? Why is it impossible to know anything? From a scientific viewpoint, that's just wrong, and from a philosophical one, it's still wrong. 



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BenVTrigger on 03 January 2013
Mazty said:
BenVTrigger said:
I've long thought this but the thing that made me make the thread was when I was reading about the sun.

They kept talking about how the center of the sun was 27 million d.rees. Thats nice and all and they might be right but we dont actually KNOW THAT for a FACT. We have never stuck a thermomenter in the center of the sun and read its temperature.

Theres millions of things scientists throw around as fact that arent actually proven. They are all based on theories and guesses. Which is fine but at least say "we think" or "its our best guess".


*smh*

You don't need a thermometer to guage a temperature reading. Also that thinking is just...broken. How do you know a thermometer correctly tells you the temperature of something? 

You can analyse wave lengths and other things emitted by the sun to get a temperature reading. I'm sorry but it really sounds like you're trying to dismiss facts because you simply don't understand the methodology that was used.

Lol no.  Not at all.

A scientific fact is something we know beyond question.  We have good estimates based on what we think is going on in the sun

We have never directly observed the center of the sun  and dont know beyond doubt the processes of the sun

If we dont know the exact process we dont know the exact temperature.  You sir are taking presumptions as fact.  We dont factually know how the sun operates.  We THINK we do



KungKras on 03 January 2013

Predictive and explanative capability is what matters, and science has it in spades.



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Zappykins on 03 January 2013

But the reverse is true - we theoretically know *everything.*

In theory we know the answers and questions to everything, but we can not distinguish which is the correct one in many cases.

But I have it on rather good authority that kittens can not fly.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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BenVTrigger on 03 January 2013

I find it odd how some of you bring up medicine as proof of how much we know.

I mean really? We cant even cure aids or cancer yet. We barely know anything about the full processes of the human body. Obviously we know a little bit. My point is we dont know much. At all. In fact humanity at this point is infinitely stupid



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Mazty on 03 January 2013
BenVTrigger said:
Mazty said:
BenVTrigger said:
I've long thought this but the thing that made me make the thread was when I was reading about the sun.

They kept talking about how the center of the sun was 27 million d.rees. Thats nice and all and they might be right but we dont actually KNOW THAT for a FACT. We have never stuck a thermomenter in the center of the sun and read its temperature.

Theres millions of things scientists throw around as fact that arent actually proven. They are all based on theories and guesses. Which is fine but at least say "we think" or "its our best guess".


*smh*

You don't need a thermometer to guage a temperature reading. Also that thinking is just...broken. How do you know a thermometer correctly tells you the temperature of something? 

You can analyse wave lengths and other things emitted by the sun to get a temperature reading. I'm sorry but it really sounds like you're trying to dismiss facts because you simply don't understand the methodology that was used.

Lol no.  Not at all.

A scientific fact is something we know beyond question.  We have good estimates based on what we think is going on in the sun

We have never directly observed the center of the sun  and dont know beyond doubt the processes of the sun

If we dont know the exact process we dont know the exact temperature.  You sir are taking presumptions as fact.  We dont factually know how the sun operates.  We THINK we do


The problem there is you think that to know something you have to view it with your eyes. Does that then mean magnatism does not exist? What about gravity? How about love?

You don't understand how one process leads to another and obeserving said process with instruments means certain things. 

Pick up a university level physics book and you'll see what I mean. For the most part, the universe is logical, not random, therefore facts exist. 



Roma on 03 January 2013

we believe in unproven theories cus that's real prof until it's proven false and a new theory is the new proof




    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

BenVTrigger on 03 January 2013
Mazty said:
BenVTrigger said:
Mazty said:
BenVTrigger said:
I've long thought this but the thing that made me make the thread was when I was reading about the sun.

They kept talking about how the center of the sun was 27 million d.rees. Thats nice and all and they might be right but we dont actually KNOW THAT for a FACT. We have never stuck a thermomenter in the center of the sun and read its temperature.

Theres millions of things scientists throw around as fact that arent actually proven. They are all based on the. ies and guesses. Which is fine but at least say "we think" or "its our best guess".


*smh*

You don't need a thermometer to guage a temperature reading. Also that thinking is just...broken. How do you know a thermometer correctly tells you the temperature of something? 

You can analyse wave lengths and other things emitted by the sun to get a temperature reading. I'm sorry but it really sounds like you're trying to dismiss facts because you simply don't understand the methodology that was used.

Lol no.  Not at all.

A scientific fact is something we know beyond question.  We have good estimates based on what we think is going on in the sun

We have never directly observed the center of the sun  and dont know beyond doubt the processes of the sun

If we dont know the exact process we dont know the exact temperature.  You sir are taking presumptions as fact.  We dont factually know how the sun operates.  We THINK we do


The problem there is you think that to know something you have to view it with your eyes. Does that then mean magnatism does not exist? What about gravity? How about love?

You don't understand how one process leads to another and obeserving said process with instruments means certain things. 

Pick up a university level physics book and you'll see what I mean. For the most part, the universe is logical, not random, therefore facts exist. 


Again your using mans reasoning as "proof".  Everything is based off someone else beliefe being right.

And yes when you actually research the definition of truth you will quickly find absolute Truth requires direct observation.  Hey I believe the center of the Sun probably is 27 million degrees.  But in order for it to be FACT we must directly measure its temperature. Somehow.  We MUST measure it to know 100%.  Even if instruments support it probably is, it isnt a FACT until it is DIRECTLY measured.

Thats the point.  We lack real 100 percent fact in most areas.  We have great theories.



Cub on 03 January 2013
BenVTrigger said:
I find it odd how some of you bring up medicine as proof of how much we know.

I mean really? We cant even cure aids or cancer yet. We barely know anything about the full processes of the human body. Obviously we know a little bit. My point is we dont know much. At all. In fact humanity at this point is infinitely stupid


Curing aids and knowing how HIV causes AIDS is different. We may not come up with a cure but we know how HIV causes AIDS. Same with cancer, we know a lot of the mechanims by which we can get cancer, a lot more than we knew 10 years ago at least, finding a cure is a different matter.

I agree with you though, the more we know about something the more we know that there is a lot more left to know about it. But we are getting there, maybe not fast enough for our short lives to witness but we are definitely progressing.



Mazty on 03 January 2013
BenVTrigger said:
Mazty said:
BenVTrigger said:
Mazty said:
BenVTrigger said:
I've long thought this but the thing that made me make the thread was when I was reading about the sun.

They kept talking about how the center of the sun was 27 million d.rees. Thats nice and all and they might be right but we dont actually KNOW THAT for a FACT. We have never stuck a thermomenter in the center of the sun and read its temperature.

Theres millions of things scientists throw around as fact that arent actually proven. They are all based on the. ies and guesses. Which is fine but at least say "we think" or "its our best guess".


*smh*

You don't need a thermometer to guage a temperature reading. Also that thinking is just...broken. How do you know a thermometer correctly tells you the temperature of something? 

You can analyse wave lengths and other things emitted by the sun to get a temperature reading. I'm sorry but it really sounds like you're trying to dismiss facts because you simply don't understand the methodology that was used.

Lol no.  Not at all.

A scientific fact is something we know beyond question.  We have good estimates based on what we think is going on in the sun

We have never directly observed the center of the sun  and dont know beyond doubt the processes of the sun

If we dont know the exact process we dont know the exact temperature.  You sir are taking presumptions as fact.  We dont factually know how the sun operates.  We THINK we do


The problem there is you think that to know something you have to view it with your eyes. Does that then mean magnatism does not exist? What about gravity? How about love?

You don't understand how one process leads to another and obeserving said process with instruments means certain things. 

Pick up a university level physics book and you'll see what I mean. For the most part, the universe is logical, not random, therefore facts exist. 


Again your using mans reasoning as "proof".  Everything is based off someone else beliefe being right.

And yes when you actually research the definition of truth you will quickly find absolute Truth requires direct observation.  Hey I believe the center of the Sun probably is 27 million degrees.  But in order for it to be FACT we must directly measure its temperature. Somehow.  We MUST measure it to know 100%.  Even if instruments support it probably is, it isnt a FACT until it is DIRECTLY measured.

Thats the point.  We lack real 100 percent fact in most areas.  We have great theories.

*smh*

The scientific methods has nothing to do with belief. That's a misunderstanding of the concept. 

Direct observation doesn't mean directly looking at the centre of something. It just means witnessing an event. That event could be gasses emitted by a star, determining the gasses through their spectral signature, and then determing through calculations how much heat is needed to generate said volume of gas to the witnessed height. And there we have the temperature of a star. 

" Even if instruments support it probably is, it isnt a FACT until it is DIRECTLY measured."

Wut? Instruments measuring something means it's been directly measured. You're working on the lie that human senses are infallible. Ask some guy who has dropped a tab how well his senses are doing. 

All I can say is attend university and you'll see that what you are saying is very, very wrong.