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Forums - General Discussion - To Christians: Adam/Eve vs dinosaurs?

ps3-sales! said:

Okay so I have a topic that I've been wondering recentley. Before I start, let me say that I am a Christian. I believe in my religion fully, but don't like to beat people down with bibles. I will share my beliefs however, as I also love to hear others share what others believe. In the end, I believe that my religion will get me into heaven, just as others believe theirs (unless atheist) will get them into heaven. So this isn't a thread to nessesarily debate your religious views. But because I'm talking about Adam and Eve, this is more of a Christian opinion. 

Okay. So I problem is figuring out the timeline of the Earth according to Christian beliefs. Obviously, we believe in creationism and not evolution. However, it is a fact that dinosaurs existed. With that said, when did they come into play? I'm not looking for years, because I don't believe that the Earth has been here for millions/billions of year, I'm just looking for a connection. According to Christians, Adam/Eve were the first people. They were born naked (in bible) and stood upright. But what about "cavemen"? And to my knowledge the animals in the bible were similar to the animals of today. But where were the dinosaurs? Did they exist in a different part of the world????

If your comment critizes my religious views without any good input, I have no problem reporting it and hopfully the mods take care of it. 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this issue. Again let me stress that I really don't want this to turn into an argument. Just curious to see what everyone thinks about it. 

If you truly read deeply into the Bible, you'll come across many contradictions either between statements contained within or against modern knowledge.  You either have to ignore these contradictions or accept the Biblical statements as allegory and not meant to be taken literally.

For instance, your notion above that Earth cannot be millions of years old stands in contrast against unfathomable number of aspects that suggest it must be.  Dinosaurs and the requirements for their bones to fossilize are just one of them.

Many Christians take the allegory persepctive and state that the 7 days of creation were actually many millenia each.   

The problem is that it sets the stage for personal interpretation.  What of the Bible is meant to be allegory, what is meant to be absolute fact?  When you start asking these kinds of questions, you may not like where it takes you.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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As a Muslim I had similar questions a while ago. Ill post you the best response I got since the bible and Quran are pretty similar

"The reason people are not finding a verse about dinosaurs could be due to the fact that they haven't understood the entire Quran. Also, lots of people would just say it's not there because they haven't seen it or read the Quran entirely while understanding it 100% to be able to say it does.

The term 'dinosaur' is also the modern word of what those creatures were called thousands of years ago. We do not know what those creatures were referred to exactly, but we can only study the Quran further to make that decision, if it indeed exists in the Quran.

For an example, a lot of people used the excuse of how there is no verse that implies that women have to wear the Hijab (headscarf) and point out only one ayah (verse) that tells women to dress modestly. Of course, that is based on their knowledge of the Quran, little do they know that there exists two more versus that relate to the Headscarf and makes it compulsory. Just because they don't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Everyday or every decade, we discover something new. Whether it be a more clear understanding of what we thought a verse meant, or a complete shift in our views. Islam is over 1400 years old, and to this day we still find something new out, and we still don't completely understand the Quran. Some verses have literal implications, others an underlining meaning or message.

Now, that does not prove that there is a verse about dinosaurs in the Quran, but suggests that it may actually exist in the Quran but has not yet been identified. We do not know what God refers to as 'dinosaurs' in the Quran, but we do know that there is a verse that discusses 'giant creatures/beasts (Dabbah)' in verse 2:164 from the Holy Quran: "...in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth...are signs for a people that are wise"

The same word 'Dabbah' is used the in the verse 24:45: "And God has created every animal from water: of them are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. God creates what he wills..." There is another verse in the Quran that I found very interesting - Al-Araf:56 "work not confusion in the earth after the fair ordering thereof" which describes how the earth had been "repaired/reordered/restored", suggesting there had been commotion or some problematic event on earth and was restored. It warns the believers to not cause confusion on earth.

Then again, that could mean a whole different thing. But, I do believe, even though the Quran is meant mainly to guide the believers, that there may be some verse that might further explain life millions of years ago. That's my opinion.

Sorry the English translation doesn't flow or make as much sense as the actual Arabic text from the Quran, it's quite difficult to explain precisely."



ps3-sales! said:

Somebody actually read my post!

Thanks for your input. You put a lot of effort into a good response, and it shows. 

I agree with a couple things you said. Although I don't believe in evoution per say, that doesn't mean that things don't change over time. Natural section is very much a fact. Animals and humans alike change and adapt in order to fit their surroundings and to survive. I just don't think we were once monkeys....

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still. 

Also it does bother me when Christians ignore logic completley and rely 100% on faith. That's just ignorance. As a Christian, I want to be a better Christian by learnign as much as I can from other religions and point of views to test my own. I think a true Christian is one that can learn things that test their beliefs, yet still beleive in them.

Again thanks for the input :)

Evolution is a fact of life, bud. You're 18 and didn't realize this?  See my previous post in regard to hominids and take a basic science course on anthropology.

Radiocarbon Dating is a tried and true process, the "impossibility" of it is your own ignorance of the subject matter. 



Your post reminds me why I'm an atheist. Thank you.



The bible speaks of giants and a land filled with giants, whose to say the word giant was only used to describe people. Brother let me tell you another good bit of information, the bible was written to pass on the works of God and Jesus just because something was not written doesn't mean it didn't happen. We were created and as the world changes so do we, that doesn't mean we were created from an explosion in space it means we were designed that way. Being a believer is a great thing some people see the bible as a be all end all type of thing but i see it as more of an example of how we should live our lives.



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dsgrue3 said:

Evolution is a fact of life, bud. You're 18 and didn't realize this?  See my previous post in regard to hominids and take a basic science course on anthropology.

Radiocarbon Dating is a tried and true process, the "impossibility" of it is your own ignorance of the subject matter. 

I know all about radiocarbon dating being that I'm a biochem major. However, the problem I have with it is that it really isn't tried and true. In order to be tried and true a million years from now scientist need to use the method on something from now and get accurate reads. That is the only way to be able to perform the experiment.



ps3-sales! said:

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still.

Everything sounds like magic until you study it yourself.   Go back in time 30 years and tell people that we'll have a portable phone that connects everyone on the planet, access the Internet, plays games, can render HD video and imagery and it all fits in your pocket.   They'd lock you up in the looney bin.

Go back 100 years and tell them we'll have integrated circuits with 5 billion transistors on it that operate at 4 billion cycles per second and handle trillions of operations per second and it's only 22nm thick.   They'd burn you at the stake.

The ability to carbon date a rock or use electron spin resonance dating, optically stimulated luminescense dating, mass spectrometric dating plus several other methods and can be used all in conjunction are simple concepts these days but can still seem hard to wrap your head around if you don't deal with it every day....as we do with cell phones and computers.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

ps3-sales! said:
pokoko said:
Honestly, I think most Christians just kind of ignore the problem. I used to wonder about this all the time when I was a kid and I think I even asked about it in Sunday school. I don't remember who told me, or if it was an "official" answer, but I remember getting the response that fossils are "a lie told by Satan to create doubt". Even as a kid I knew that sounded fishy, especially since I thought Satan couldn't perform physical miracles in that way, but if it's true then damn if I'm not super impressed by the devil. That would be like the best hoax EVER. I've also heard that god did it to test the faith of christians, which would be kind of messed up.

I don't think you'll find an answer to your problem. I never did, just as I never found an answer to many, many other problems and contradictions. That was part of the reason why I left Christianity behind; the only other option I can think of is to file things like that as Unsolved Mysteries in your head and just accept that you don't know the answer. Science will never mesh with the time-line you believe.

One thing I don't understand, though, is how people can disbelieve in evolution, christian or not. That would mean that ALL fossil records are wrong, even relatively recent ones that show that people and animals from not long ago were slightly different than they are now. That species change relative to environmental differences, to me, is natural and obvious. That's one that I could never get my head around while growing up. People telling me that nothing evolves is the same as being told that logic doesn't exist and I just can't accept that without remaking myself into someone else.

Somebody actually read my post!

Thanks for your input. You put a lot of effort into a good response, and it shows. 

I agree with a couple things you said. Although I don't believe in evoution per say, that doesn't mean that things don't change over time. Natural section is very much a fact. Animals and humans alike change and adapt in order to fit their surroundings and to survive. I just don't think we were once monkeys....

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still. 

Also it does bother me when Christians ignore logic completley and rely 100% on faith. That's just ignorance. As a Christian, I want to be a better Christian by learnign as much as I can from other religions and point of views to test my own. I think a true Christian is one that can learn things that test their beliefs, yet still beleive in them.

Again thanks for the input :)


Evolution does not say we were once monkeys. It does not prove or disprove the existance of a god. It doesn't conflict with christianity unless you want to be really strict in interpretation. Evolution is just as much fact as natural selection is. Natural selection is just the procces that causes evolution.  It is also fact that they can learn how old something is. You should have learned exactly how scientists do that in high school.



dsgrue3 said:
ps3-sales! said:

Somebody actually read my post!

Thanks for your input. You put a lot of effort into a good response, and it shows. 

I agree with a couple things you said. Although I don't believe in evoution per say, that doesn't mean that things don't change over time. Natural section is very much a fact. Animals and humans alike change and adapt in order to fit their surroundings and to survive. I just don't think we were once monkeys....

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still. 

Also it does bother me when Christians ignore logic completley and rely 100% on faith. That's just ignorance. As a Christian, I want to be a better Christian by learnign as much as I can from other religions and point of views to test my own. I think a true Christian is one that can learn things that test their beliefs, yet still beleive in them.

Again thanks for the input :)

Evolution is a fact of life, bud. You're 18 and didn't realize this?  See my previous post in regard to hominids and take a basic science course on anthropology.

Radiocarbon Dating is a tried and true process, the "impossibility" of it is your own ignorance of the subject matter. 

Maybe you should take that class again, you try to point out his "ignorance" while failing to realize radiocarbon dating is based on a critical assumption. The fact of the matter is no one knows until the day they die, so try to be a little nicer when assuming everything you read or a scientist says is fact.



Viper1 said:

If you truly read deeply into the Bible, you'll come across many contradictions either between statements contained within or against modern knowledge.  You either have to ignore these contradictions or accept the Biblical statements as allegory and not meant to be taken literally.

For instance, your notion above that Earth cannot be millions of years old stands in contrast against unfathomable number of aspects that suggest it must be.  Dinosaurs and the requirements for their bones to fossilize are just one of them.

Many Christians take the allegory persepctive and state that the 7 days of creation were actually many millenia each.   

The problem is that it sets the stage for personal interpretation.  What of the Bible is meant to be allegory, what is meant to be absolute fact?  When you start asking these kinds of questions, you may not like where it takes you.

Yup. I've always believed the bible to be up for interpretation. However, I don't believe its relative to the interpreter. I think there is a right interpretation but no one knows what that is and everyone has a chance of being correct (though those who use science even more so).

The reason why I always thought it to up for interpretation? The translations. Just like how there are some words that don't translate well in languages. How can a being that has never experienced the concept of time translate his words to reflect time? (just to refrence your example)