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Forums - PC Discussion - Building my first PC and would like some input

go with someone besides patriot for the ram... i bought from them once and had to rma all four sticks   twice  (had issues booting in at stock and XMP mode would never load). i favor crucial, corsair, and mushkin. none of which i have ever had issue with. the corsair kits i have bought have had substantial over clocking headroom. mushkin not much in terms of head room, but cost is generally a lot lower. crucial has mainly been used for registered ram.

dont skimp on the power supply go modular (wish i had for my first build have will all subsequent builds ) and get a good name brand, seasonic corsair antec toms hardware has a nice breakdown of OEMs and all the others here http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-oem-manufacturer,2913.html

what cpu cooler are you buying?

hyper 212+ is cheap and awesome, but the instructions suck.

 

updated**



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BlueFalcon said:

 7. RAM
- OK this is not good at all. For Z77 and modern i5/i7 CPUs, you want DDR3 of 1.5V or lower. The RAM you picked is Enhanced CAS Latency (9-9-9-24) and 1.65V voltage. You don't want this at all.


Hello BlueFalcon, could you explain to me what is the problem with 1.65v for rams?

It is not the first time i see someone to say that is a bad thing. Thanks.



Dand said:
BlueFalcon said:

 7. RAM
- OK this is not good at all. For Z77 and modern i5/i7 CPUs, you want DDR3 of 1.5V or lower. The RAM you picked is Enhanced CAS Latency (9-9-9-24) and 1.65V voltage. You don't want this at all.


Hello BlueFalcon, could you explain to me what is the problem with 1.65v for rams?

It is not the first time i see someone to say that is a bad thing. Thanks.

sandy/ivy bridge chipsets and the ddr3 ram spec are designed and call for 1.5v running above this may shorten lifespan of motherboard/ram and the added heat does not help. it also reduces your ability to OC the ram where you may use higher voltage to add stability. some motherboard manufactures may not honor warranty if they find you using ram over 1.5v as they normally ask for model number … intel also asks for this information  but i have never heard of them declining a RMA for this issue



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goddog said:

go with someone besides patriot for the ram... i bought from them once and had to rma all four sticks   twice  (had issues booting in at stock and XMP mode would never load). i favor crucial, corsair, and mushkin. none of which i have ever had issue with. the corsair kits i have bought have had substantial over clocking headroom. mushkin not much in terms of head room, but cost is generally a lot lower. crucial has mainly been used for registered ram.

dont skimp on the power supply go modular (wish i had for my first build have will all subsequent builds ) and get a good name brand, seasonic corsair antec toms hardware has a nice breakdown of OEMs and all the others here http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-oem-manufacturer,2913.html

what cpu cooler are you buying?

hyper 212+ is cheap and awesome, but the instructions suck.

 

updated**


Stock cooler is fine, for mild overclocking even.

It's not really a necessary cost for someones first build. If he buys it and decides he wants to oveclock or he wants more silence then ofcourse, and that coolers a good option. But that's a cost he can add on later if he finds something not satisfactory. 




ishiki said:
goddog said:

go with someone besides patriot for the ram... i bought from them once and had to rma all four sticks   twice  (had issues booting in at stock and XMP mode would never load). i favor crucial, corsair, and mushkin. none of which i have ever had issue with. the corsair kits i have bought have had substantial over clocking headroom. mushkin not much in terms of head room, but cost is generally a lot lower. crucial has mainly been used for registered ram.

dont skimp on the power supply go modular (wish i had for my first build have will all subsequent builds ) and get a good name brand, seasonic corsair antec toms hardware has a nice breakdown of OEMs and all the others here http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-oem-manufacturer,2913.html

what cpu cooler are you buying?

hyper 212+ is cheap and awesome, but the instructions suck.

 

updated**


Stock cooler is fine, for mild overclocking even.

It's not really a necessary cost for someones first build. If he buys it and decides he wants to oveclock or he wants more silence then ofcourse, and that coolers a good option. But that's a cost he can add on later if he finds something not satisfactory. 


hmm i have found the stock cooler to be okay for sandy but not ivy when using an i5 or better .... or rather to say if he was using an i3 i would agree. i would feel uncomfortable running an ivy bridge i5 at the temps an intel stock cooler hold it at (admittedly i keep my stuff cooler than is required). if i remember right there are 2 intel stock coolers right now one solid aluminum and one with a copper core normally with the i7 i



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thought this might help, http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/budget-gaming-do-it-yourself-computer,3364-16.html

today is the low end, 500 dollar PC tomorrow should be the 1000 dollar PC just a reference point really so you can see what you get between the two... normally by the end of the week they will post a comparison between all the builds they carry out



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Soleron said:
Also most of his recommendations seem overclocking focused, and unless you have a desire to I would say don't do that, and therefore the cheaper motherboard, RAM and non-K CPU are good choices.

My recommendations are focused around getting the most value for the $, which involves overclocking. Also, getting a bullet-proof power supply is a MUST for long-term upgrades and general system stability. Would you risk $800 worth of parts with a crappy PSU? The recommendations I suggested such as better case with higher quality materials, or RAM that costs less and is still better are not simply overclocking focused. You might hate the idea, but all it takes is moving the slider in MSI Afteburner to get HD7950 to perform faster than a $450 GTX680/HD7970Ghz. Overclocking is not difficult like it used to be in the past. Same for i5-3570K. It just means moving the multiplier up and increasing the CPU voltage a bit. That's it. Besides, these small additions can be used in 2 years to add cheap performance. 

If you looked at my suggestions, the parts I recommended are simply better with or without overclocking. I also recommended HD7950 not only because of overclocking but because it comes with a free Far Cry 3 game and it performs better with mods in Skyrim. The OP mentioned he is interested in both of those titles. 



Dand said:

Hello BlueFalcon, could you explain to me what is the problem with 1.65v for rams?

It is not the first time i see someone to say that is a bad thing. Thanks.

It relates to tolerances of the memory controller inside the CPU and also that the Vtt and DDR3 voltage should not be more than 0.5V apart. For that reason, 1.5V is what's recommended for Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge architecture. In simple terms, 1.65V would put more stress on the CPU's integrated memory controller which can possibly damage the CPU long-term. Since there is no price premium for 1.35V and 1.5V RAM, there is no reason at all to get 1.65V. Not only that but lower voltage RAM uses less power and it generally means much higher-binned chips. The Samsung RAM I linked for example is high-end 30nm RAM chips but it sells on a budget, which is why it's a gem. The high-end memory makers will take those same modules, repackage them at 1.6V DDR3 2400mhz and sell them for $130+ for 8GB. 

As I said, try to look for deals and start buying parts when you see great deals. For example, if you want "prettier" RAM than the Samsung I linked, there are plenty of good deals around:

$35 = G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-17000CL11D-8GBXL

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231468

This operates at 1.5 or 1.6V.

disolitude made a recommendation for a budget gaming build. If you are going for a budget gaming CPU, get a Core i3 instead. It would still be faster in games than Phenom II X4 965 and use way less power. 

http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/5

Later when you have the $, you can sell it and get a Core i5-3570K. Alternatively as I said there are ways to save $ like getting a 2500K for $199 instead of i5-3570K for $215. If you are really not comfortable with learning how to overclock later, you can save $ upfront and get a $180 Core i5-3450 for $180:

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=70543&vpn=BX80637I53450&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1306

See you can save some $ grabbing a GTX660 for around $200-210 but if you already plan to buy Far Cry 3, then HD7950 is a no brainer since not only is it faster than GTX660 but it comes with that game for free. At that point the price difference between the 2 cards is small but their performance is pretty far apart, especially given the potential of HD7950 once you learn how PC parts work (and I can help you overclock it). Mods in Skyrim can use more than 2500-2800MB and that's another reason why a 3GB card helps as it's one of the games you want to play.

Don't hesitate to send in the rebates as they do come through as long as you fill out the paper work and do it on time. If you missed some of the PSUs that I linked on sale, here is a Corsair 650W for about $70. It's still better than the Ultra you linked:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020

or a 630W Rosewill with $10 off coupon that turns it into a $50 PSU. 

Or here is a deal on a Liteon IHAS124 24X DVD Writer SATA Black OEM for $10 at NCIXus.com

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=45244&promoid=1146


 

 



disolitude made a recommendation for a budget gaming build. If you are going for a budget gaming CPU, get a Core i3 instead. It would still be faster in games than Phenom II X4 965 and use way less power. 

It would use way less power however x4 965 or any of those phenoms are unlocked for overclocking. At 4 ghz which all am3 phenoms can hit along with over locked northbridge, RAM and HT they should be as fast if not faster than an i3.

Not to mention that prices are lower for CPU and mobos on the AMD side and they come with more features at lower price. I picked up a 965 and MSI am3 + Sli mobo with 6 sata 3 ports and USB 3.0 for 140 bucks. You're looking at at least 100 bucks more for an i3 and mobo.



I also like this bundle deal although we'll be cutting corners in places, but watch this for $537:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1097441

- You get a case with 3 free fans
- You get a modular PSU with 46A on 12V rail
- We still get the awesome Core i5-2500K CPU
- We get a decent motherboard here MSI P67A-GD80 (B3) (don't worry that it's not PCIe 3.0x, this doesn't matter since 2500K doesn't support PCIe 3.0; you need i5-3000 series for that and the performance difference is very small for modern graphics with PCIe 2.0 vs. 3.0)
- You get 1.5TB hard drive but it's 5900rpm one (not ideal for system drive). This would be OK if you save some $ for an SSD for the main system drive in say the next 12 months. Then this drive can be moved to your storage/games/music/video. Just make sure to create 2 partitions for OS and Data when you install Windows
- You get 1 stick of DDR3 8GB but it's only 1333mhz. It's not the end of the world and later you can always ditch this and get more modern RAM

Total is about $537 but there is a $30 Rebate that expires end of the month = $507.

All you'd need now is a DVD-Drive which we found for $10-20. That gives you enough $ for a GTX660Ti or HD7950 with 3 free games bundle. Either of those cards can be found for about $280 (slightly less for GTX660Ti).

We end up with a strong CPU and GPU going this route but obviously the RAM, Case and PSU are not as nice as the separate units I linked earlier in the thread.

Put together the price for the stand-alone components from this thread and compare it to this bundle above + HD7950/GTX660Ti + DVD Drive and see how they compare in terms of prices. Let me know what you think.

----

I am biased of course as I liked picking parts since it gives way more flexibility so there I came up with an alternative around your parts and my recommendations:

1) Drop the CPU from i5-3570K to i5-3450 NCIX deal (That's a reduction from $220 to $180 or $40 savings)

2) Switch out the Ultra $75 PSU for the $50 Rosewill on Newegg I linked ($25 savings)

3) Switch out Patriot ram for G.Skill or Samsung DDR3 for $35 (that's $5 savings)

4) Keep your original motherboard

5) I think I found that hard drive for $10 less at NCIX (that's $10 savings)

6) Switch out the case to Cooler Master 690 II for $50 (that's $10 savings)

7) That should be enough to get you closer to GTX660Ti/HD7950 and still come out under $850. That's a nice bump in GPU speed without any adverse downsides in the build quality other than a slightlys lower CPU and no chance for huge overclocks on a non-K series CPU.  However, stepping up from GTX570 to GTX660Ti/HD7950 means a more powerful GPU. Keep in mind the original motherboard you picked is not SLI ready. Of course for Cross-fire or SLI, you'd want the much higher quality Corsair 650W I linked that costs $70 instead of the $50 PSU I linked. However, the Asrock Z77 Extreme3 does pack a lot of extra features over the $100 board you selected for $10 more, as well as being better for overclocking. Of course if you go with a non-K CPU and don't plan on going SLI, then the original board you pick is just fine.