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New developers will do the best on Nintendo hardware

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - New developers will do the best on Nintendo hardware

z101 said:
Soundwave said:

Everyone else was screwed. Mad World, Little King Story, Silent Hill, The Conduit, etc. all these games ended up in the bargain bin. Nintendo themselves had Sin & Punishment and Excitebots flop, so they didn't even bother with Xenoblade (token limited release only after fans whined for a whole year), The Last Story, etc. in North America.

Excitebots was made with the casual crowd in mind. Mad World, Silent Hill and The Conduit didn't sell millions, but sold well enough to make profit. Sin&Punishment is probably the only "core" game in this list with disappointing sales, on the other hand the production costs of S&P are rumored to be low.


The dissapointing part of this I felt like Reggie and NOA really put a lot of weight behind S&P2, perhaps they played a role in it even getting greenlit. Once it didn't take, it was like NOA just said "screw it" and gave up on things like Xenoblade, The Last Story, Dynamic Slash, Pandora's Tower, etc.

They overtinkered with Excitebots too. Americans want their big pick up trucks doing big jumps, that was the appeal of the first game, not robots with cute eyes driving around (I get the feeling this is a Miyamoto/EAD-fetish because he tried it with Stunt Race FX and again with Buggie Boogie on the N64 which was never released).



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Soundwave said:


The revolution has already started.

It's called iOS/Android and Steam.

If I'm an indie dev why should I pay $10-50k for a dev kit and then on top of that give you $10 for every copy of every game I sell?

Today is truly a golden age for indie devs where you can as a garage developer come up with an idea and bring that idea to an audience of millions.

Sony/MS/Nintendo honestly from an indie developer POV? F*ck 'em. Their business model is horribly outdated.

Look at iOS vs. 3DS eShop, most devs ignore Nintendo like the plague. They don't need Nintendo. Its far cheap to get a game up and running on iOS.

Nintendo is going to be one scrambling to try and improve things now because they've seen (probably to their horror) the rise of the iOS market has completely taken away their Brain Training/Nintendogs audience.

Nintendo makes great games, but painting them as some messiah for original game content is laughable. What new studios has Nintendo invested in? What new IPs have they let any new studio work on? At least Sony invests a lot of in new studios (Media Molecule and so on) and lets them work on new, original IPs, not sequels/spinoffs to the same 7-8 franchises over and over (and over) again.

The iOS/Android market is overrun with "indie-devs" and their games. Only few games are profitable and many games are blatantly copies of console/handheld games and miss even a little spark of imagination. Statistics say that more than 85% of iOS games & apps are only downloaded one or two times.

Apple has a big interested to convince small developers that there is money in their market. Regularly you can read some sensationally articles about one app that brought millions to a small developer. Apple has a big interest in such articles, because developers must buy a Mac for development and some apple devices for test purposes and on top of that they must pay the yearly bill to have the "right" to publish in the apple store. Most of these small developers made one or two games and left the market fast after that. Even for this apps Apple took 30% of the price! Apple and very few lucky developers are the only winner.



z101 said:
Soundwave said:

Everyone else was screwed. Mad World, Little King Story, Silent Hill, The Conduit, etc. all these games ended up in the bargain bin. Nintendo themselves had Sin & Punishment and Excitebots flop, so they didn't even bother with Xenoblade (token limited release only after fans whined for a whole year), The Last Story, etc. in North America.

Excitebots was made with the casual crowd in mind. Mad World, Silent Hill and The Conduit didn't sell millions, but sold well enough to make profit. Sin&Punishment is probably the only "core" game in this list with disappointing sales, on the other hand the production costs of S&P are rumored to be low.

I wouldn't bother. That user clearly favors his made up facts to rational ones.



http://gamasutra.com/view/news/173736/Nintendo_offering_more_support_to_Wii_U_indies.php#.UFCA0lGeJIA

http://indiegames.com/2012/05/tom_sennett_salil_malkan_tech_.html

http://nintendoeverything.com/93550/indie-devs-open-up-on-wii-u/

http://eshopgamers.com/2012/07/10/indie-developers-have-faith-in-nintendos-wii-u-eshop/

http://wii.mmgn.com/Forums/Wii-2/wii-u-indie-games

 

 

 

 

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/08/star-beast-coming-to-wii-u/

http://wii.mmgn.com/News/Indie-developer-in-high-praise-for-Wii-U

http://nintendoculture.com/indie-developers-discuss-wii-us-eshop/

http://www.indiegamemag.com/digital-sprint-runner-2-will-be-a-wii-u-launch-title/#.UFCC1VGeJIA

http://www.indiegamemag.com/hitting-platforms-hardcore-cloudberry-kingdom-is-coming-to-steam-and-wii-u/#.UFCC2FGeJIA

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=180856

http://www.indiegamemag.com/aban-hawkins-the-1001-spikes-coming-to-wii-u-3ds/#.UFCC3FGeJIA

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/9/3/3289812/chasing-aurora-brings-indie-game-style-to-wii-u-eshop

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/06/indie-developer-wii-u-another-hit/

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/09/the-cave-coming-to-wii-u/

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/40486/little-inferno-creators-wii-u-can-attract-indie-developers/

 

Unlike one who likes to wave with sound, I live in a world of facts. My knowledge and beleiefs aren't based on negative presumptions. I asked him to back up the claim of high quality 3rd parties not succeeding on the Wii and got beilittling comments instead. What more can one expect.



I'm assuming you're only talking about just consoles (not PCs, tablets, phones, etc.), which should be stated in the title. And what does 'do the best' mean? You mean sell more? Also, you do realize that Nintendo requires developers to utilize the functions of the Wii Game Pad, right? Just like they did with the Wiimote this gen. So if a developer's idea for a game would be better off without touch or motion controls, then obviously Nintendo will not be the best hardware for them. And what makes you think that Indie devs would have the best experience working with Nintendo? After all, Wiiware certainly killed XBLA and PSN games (that's called sarcasm). And 3DS has tons of the best indie games on the market (ahem... sarcasm).

What if a small dev team (or single person dev team) wants to make a free game or $1 game? Go to Nintendo? Nope. With the proven track record of Sony and Microsoft's downloadable gaming platforms, there is a much bigger audience and greater chance of success (unless touch capabilities are required to play).

PC will always be a viable platform for new and indie devs. And for those that want to work within the console space, but don't want to deal with the bureaucracy of the big 3? Well, next year there's Ouya, a platform with PC ideals that's aimed at the home console market. And the cost of development is far less than with other consoles.

Have all the bias you want, it's you're right. But if you believe that there isn't a better platform for most new and indie devs, then you're out of touch with what the different platforms have to offer. The most successful games on Nintendo platforms are created by well-established teams with lots of money, not new and indie devs. I would go so far as to say that a Nintendo console offers the lowest chance of success compared with every other option out there for new and indie devs.

*edit*

I see you've posted a bunch of links to back up Wii U's draw for indie devs.  Except all of those games have already found success with other platforms.  These aren't new devs that only had the chance to make these games because of what Wii U offers.  Again, they are far behind their competitors when it comes to offering the tools for small dev success.



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TheShape31 said:

I'm assuming you're only talking about just consoles (not PCs, tablets, phones, etc.), which should be stated in the title. And what does 'do the best' mean? You mean sell more? Also, you do realize that Nintendo requires developers to utilize the functions of the Wii Game Pad, right? Just like they did with the Wiimote this gen. So if a developer's idea for a game would be better off without touch or motion controls, then obviously Nintendo will not be the best hardware for them. And what makes you think that Indie devs would have the best experience working with Nintendo? After all, Wiiware certainly killed XBLA and PSN games (that's called sarcasm). And 3DS has tons of the best indie games on the market (ahem... sarcasm).

What if a small dev team (or single person dev team) wants to make a free game or $1 game? Go to Nintendo? Nope. With the proven track record of Sony and Microsoft's downloadable gaming platforms, there is a much bigger audience and greater chance of success (unless touch capabilities are required to play).

PC will always be a viable platform for new and indie devs. And for those that want to work within the console space, but don't want to deal with the bureaucracy of the big 3? Well, next year there's Ouya, a platform with PC ideals that's aimed at the home console market. And the cost of development is far less than with other consoles.

Have all the bias you want, it's you're right. But if you believe that there isn't a better platform for most new and indie devs, then you're out of touch with what the different platforms have to offer. The most successful games on Nintendo platforms are created by well-established teams with lots of money, not new and indie devs. I would go so far as to say that a Nintendo console offers the lowest chance of success compared with every other option out there for new and indie devs.

*edit*

I see you've posted a bunch of links to back up Wii U's draw for indie devs.  Except all of those games have already found success with other platforms.  These aren't new devs that only had the chance to make these games because of what Wii U offers.  Again, they are far behind their competitors when it comes to offering the tools for small dev success.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/nintendos-satoru-iwata-embraces-free-to-play-games-on-wii-u-clarifies-online-strategy/ <---Old News...

 

Your edit proves one of my main pont on this forum and why I stopped providing links and evidence. People awlays outright dismiss them in entirety(regardless of what is fact and what isn't) from whatever angles they can find then continue the beg the question while never providing any proof or backup of their own contrary opinions.

I would have thought most of this stuff to be common sense with the volume in which it has been posted and reported around the web, but apparently, some people really want the negatives to be true.I doubt you read all of those nor are you addressing the claim I made(( never siad those games weren't sucessful elsewhere, that was not the main point). Though, I've come to expect that at this point. Simply whether or not they did well somewhere else is beside the point.

I cannot convince someone of someting that they do not want to be true. There is nothing more I can do for you.



lilbroex,

Just because they're saying that they are considering free-to-play as an option, it doesn't automatically make Nintendo the best hardware for new and indie devs. I am not attempting to dispute that Nintendo has a better infrastructure set up for Wii U than they did for Wii. But you can't simply say that Nintendo is the best based on what they are aiming to do. And as a small developer [team], why would they choose Nintendo over what's already available? Does Nintendo make it cheaper for them? No. Are they less bureaucratic than the competition? No. Do devs have the option to create games without touch/motion controls? No.

You are not giving evidence to support your claim, and the reason is that the evidence doesn't exist yet. Wii U hasn't launched, and there is no reason to believe that it'll be the next big thing for small devs. Posting links about old indie games coming to Wii U, or Nintendo heads talking about their goals, isn't evidence... it's potential.

If you had created a thread talking about how Nintendo has potential to be a player in the indie game market, that's one thing. But it takes blind bias to just say that a console (which hasn't even been released yet) is better than any other proven platform. I'm not outright dismissing the links you're providing, I'm arguing against your interpretation of what the information in those links means for the future of the market.



happydolphin said:

Graph is missing the Color TV Game 6.

(..)

Since that graph is more interesting than this discussion here;

Yeah I saw that too. But the Color TV Game had more variants. The 6 was the first, then you had the 15, Block Breaker and Racing 112. But then again, if you'd include the different models you have to have like 50 Game & Watches too, so that's undoable. But why is the Pikachu N64 up there, and why is R.O.B. classified as a console? I have the Color TV Game 15, boxed with manual. Pretty awesome thing. I got it to work on my PAL TV through a VCR. It's a mess of cables, but I got a clear picture in colour and everything! Only the sound is all static. I'd like to have the Block Breaker too, because it looks neat. I hope they base the case design for a home console on it one day, like they based the DS on the Game & Watch multiscreens.

More interesting, no?



Nintendo is no better for new developers. There were lots of novel original games on Wii and they sold lousy. Nintendo fans aren't any more likely to pay them attention than MS/Sony fans. And WiiU won't be cheap to develop for.

PC and iOS/Android are the new havens (and HUGE success stories) for new developers. The costs are a fraction of developing on WiiU/3DS and the installed base in immense in comparison. They are also not focused on existing franchises like console gamers are (Some PC gamers are granted). If Angry Birds was on WW or Eshop instead it'd have sold tens of thousands (at best) instead of millions. Although eShop/PSN/XBL are a good place for new developers to use as well. As for full retail games, that's really becoming harder and harder to justify any new developer even trying to break in on any console. The sales bar is just too high unless the game is cheap and if it's cheap it should be on iOS/Android/PC/Eshop/PSN/XBL instead where it'd have more luck.



 

Nintendo fans needs to get the fact wii u is one of the worst current generation console been made so far you can't  even call it next generation